The tragedy of the Brute Fury nerf. A timeless lament

[Snarky]

In my opinion.  Ahem, the long ago great Fury nerf of Brutes was a tragic mistake

 

As I recall, there were accusations, spreadsheets, data, that Brutes could out damage Scrappers at full Fury.  If I remember (and it is vague) some Brutes with specific attack sets and combos once in a while might do it.  But the damage to the Scrapper ego had been done.  There were spreadsheets after all

 

And so, the great Fury nerf was decreed.  Interestingly while the Devs nerf batted the crap out of Brutes they adjusted Fury decay to be pretty much inconsequential. There in lies the seeds of the tragedy as it has been ever since

 

You see, it used to take a certain playstyle to be the Brute. You had to cannonball mobs, always dancing with as much damage as your AT could handle to slingshot that damage back at your enemies.  With the Fury decay nominal you could play like you were sipping tea and contemplating large strategies before deciding whether to await your team, go to another floor, read a book, whatever. Your revved up damage meter was mot going down, nor up for that matter.  
 

This made Brutes much more boring

 

As a last laugh.    This made Scrappers less desirable than they were. Sure, Brutes do less damage than a Scrapper.  But they really always did.  Not by much, but generally less.  After change, still generally less.  Now with less mercurial swings and a more attractive playstyle to those who might have rolled a Scrapper. While being more survivable.  Ka-ching
 

Basically, In my opinion, the change made Brutes more boring for Brute players and more attractive for people wanting a melee damage dealer without being stuck on a particular AT.  
 

A tragedy all the way around.  And the trees were all kept equal. With hatchet, axe, and saw.

[Troo]

What would you suggest?

[Snarky]

3 minutes ago, Troo said:

What would you suggest?

A gentle weeping, building to a veritable rainfall of tears, sobbing, turning, evolving into body shaking hysterical laughter.   

[roleki]

52 minutes ago, Snarky said:

A gentle weeping, building to a veritable rainfall of tears, sobbing, turning, evolving into body shaking hysterical laughter.   

Oh, you rolled a Sentinel?

[PeregrineFalcon]

2 hours ago, Snarky said:

Basically, In my opinion, the change made Brutes more boring for Brute players and more attractive for people wanting a melee damage dealer without being stuck on a particular AT.  
 

A tragedy all the way around.  And the trees were all kept equal. With hatchet, axe, and saw.

You know, I don't agree with Snarky very often, but when I do it's because he's right.

 

Restoring Brute's upper limit to damage, and tying it strictly to active attacks, not to damage auras, would be a way to restore the damage chasing play style of Brutes without benefiting AFK farmers. I suspect that farmers, or at least those of the AFK variety, are a big part of the reason that Brute's damage way nerfed in the first place.

[Yomo Kimyata]

I don’t remember what the nerf was or when it happened?  Was this Live or Homecoming?

[Ringo]

17 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

I don’t remember what the nerf was or when it happened?  Was this Live or Homecoming?

Live - Issue 18/Going Rogue

[SeraphimKensai]

7 hours ago, roleki said:

Oh, you rolled a Sentinel?

@Snarkywas just contemplating rolling a sentinel so maybe he actually did.

 

That said I really dug the old school brute/fury, actually scaling to 775% damage, able to get there solo, but limited by their survivability, endurance, and mob density.

 

I was like the Kool-Aid man knocking down walls and getting people hopped up on flavored sugar water as I smashed and smashed.

 

[Bill Z Bubba]

There was a reason that the OG BZB was moved off of Pinnacle and replaced with BZB Brute. And there's a reason now for me having 3 BZBs. I'd have 4 if stalker claws wasn't such a steaming pile of shit.

 

I miss old fury as well.

[Snarky]

On 10/1/2022 at 2:23 AM, SeraphimKensai said:

@Snarkywas just contemplating rolling a sentinel so maybe he actually did.

 

That said I really dug the old school brute/fury, actually scaling to 775% damage, able to get there solo, but limited by their survivability, endurance, and mob density.

 

I was like the Kool-Aid man knocking down walls and getting people hopped up on flavored sugar water as I smashed and smashed.

 

I actually dug deep into MiDs today and built a solid Dark Invul Sentinel.  Took a bit but the Defense values are softcap across most damage types.  That and being able to slip and slide away from combat should do well.  I wanted Willpower but the build would not tighten up at all.  I found a 50d Dark/Invul Sent on a back page of alts and Respecced. Alpha was open but no incarnate slots.  Looks like I farmed it and shelved it with no play.  This Halloween season seems right to see how it runs

Edited October 8, 2022 by Snarky

[SeraphimKensai]

3 hours ago, Snarky said:

I actually dug deep into MiDs today and built a solid Dark Invul Sentinel.  Took a bit but the Defense values are softcap across most damage types.  That and being able to slip and slide away from combat should do well.  I wanted Willpower but the build would not tighten up at all.  I found a 50d Dark/Invul Sent on a back page of alts and Respecced. Alpha was open but no incarnate slots.  Looks like I farmed it and shelved it with no play.  This Halloween season seems right to see how it runs

Incidentally I have a Dark/Invulnerability Sentinel that I never really have used. It gets decent survivability but the damage was paltry.

[Snarky]

5 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Incidentally I have a Dark/Invulnerability Sentinel that I never really have used. It gets decent survivability but the damage was paltry.

Yeah, pretty sure why I shelved this one after farming it up.  Dark Invul Brutes are on the lesser side of damage dealing of the Brutes.  Makes sense.  There is no "one two punch" with Sentinels unfortunately.  I can lock up a Vicky robot on a Blaster with two holds and burn it down fast.  Never happen on a Sent.

[PeregrineFalcon]

@Snarky And now it looks like they're nerfing the carp outta Brute's Fiery Aura.

 

Maybe setting up the potential to bring back the old Fury, or maybe just trying to stick it to the AFK farmers.

[PeregrineFalcon]

54 minutes ago, Krimson said:

That's going to have zero effect on my Dark/Spines Tanker and Dark/Dark Brute.

Clearly, since they're not Fiery Aura. Not sure what your point is.

 

And before you say "Well, those are my farm characters." Ok, and? What does that have to do with Fiery Aura Brutes?

 

 

[Snarky]

6 hours ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

@Snarky And now it looks like they're nerfing the carp outta Brute's Fiery Aura.

 

Maybe setting up the potential to bring back the old Fury, or maybe just trying to stick it to the AFK farmers.

And I never even realized Fiery Aura got a Carp!

 

Seriously though…. This just proves the point of my last two major Brute threads.  I think (unless pesky undead hunters catch up to me) I will be devoting most of the next year and a half to music and writing.  Very grateful for the game being back.  Sad times for Brutes getting sadder, rowing my improvised lifeboat away from the Titanic now.  Hope the Carp do not get me!

Edited October 6, 2022 by Snarky

[Sanguinesun]

On 10/6/2022 at 3:44 AM, Krimson said:

It's not going to stop farming for one. Smashing Lethal is superior to Fire and the only reason Fire is the most popular is because you just have to cross your eyes and Res is capped. Nerfing Burn will just encourage different builds. Moreover, nerfing Burn removes the reason that players choose the set. 

 

I also suspect this is a secret Tanker nerf. I have two Rad/Fire Brutes that I haven't used since I made my Fire/Rad Tanker because my Tanker is just that good. 

 

In a sense this could be better for farming because more diversity. Plus S/L farmers are often ready for regular content out of the box. 

 

 

And today, the recharge time, radius, and activation time for burn was reverted to its original numbers..

 

The Breath of Fire (Fire Breath) still is the most damaging attack in the set now due to the 46 ticks and front loaded damage.  I reported on that in the feedback for it as it does more damage than the T9 single target Greater Fire Sword in the fire melee set.   

 

Feel sorry then for the teams that live would encounter cot or carni doing that attack, it'll be mission wide perpetual damage as a team moved from group to group in a mission, in tandem ticks from multiple mob sources, etc.  Its basically once it hits an unavoidable. more damaging caltrops tick off.    For players taking the attack....  

[Gobbledigook]

Just roll a Rad/SS or spines or some other Brute and farm energy mobs lol.

 

The fiery aura change affects everyone that has access to it.

 

Perhaps this is a good change. Nerf farming Brutes off the pinnacle so they can actually give them some decent buffs/upgrades in the future without buffing farming more. It could be because of farming that Brutes have been held back.

Edited October 7, 2022 by Gobbledegook

[Snarky]

11 hours ago, Gobbledegook said:

Just roll a Rad/SS or spines or some other Brute and farm energy mobs lol.

 

The fiery aura change affects everyone that has access to it.

 

Perhaps this is a good change. Nerf farming Brutes off the pinnacle so they can actually give them some decent buffs/upgrades in the future without buffing farming more. It could be because of farming that Brutes have been held back.

In my opinion.....brutes have been held back because the Devs write for Blaster action. Hence the unavoidable giant damage patches that deal astronomical damage. Hence all the Brute nerfs, hence the Tank Buff (Blasters want one Tank on the team/league) 

 

If you wipe the pieces off the board and just stare at the squares the strategy becomes damn clear. Do not get lost in details. LOOK at the end result. The game is set up for Blasters now, with spots for a few support toons on any team/league.

[Brutal Justice]

14 hours ago, Snarky said:

The game is set up for Blasters now, with spots for a few support toons on any team/league.

I actually sort of agree with this. If you’re paying attention you can instantly feel the impact of just one high powered blaster on a team.  The support toons may be force multipliers but it generally takes several of them to have a huge impact.  Only takes one blaster.  Most of the players I would consider top end are blaster players.

[Gobbledigook]

A glass cannon should have an impact, but yes it can leave other dps lost. 

 

A tank(not always), as little support as needed and the glass cannons usually do well in pretty much every game. Shame for those in between sometimes. 

 

Hopefully players won't be elitist and take any decent dps/tank/support etc..

 

Same with power sets. Some are just better and can have more impact. But it should only matter in a tiny portion of this game.

Edited October 8, 2022 by Gobbledegook

[Astralock]

1 hour ago, Gobbledegook said:

Hopefully players won't be elitist and take any decent dps/tank/support etc..

 

Good luck with that.

[PeregrineFalcon]

23 hours ago, Snarky said:

In my opinion.....brutes have been held back because the Devs write for Blaster action. Hence the unavoidable giant damage patches that deal astronomical damage. Hence all the Brute nerfs, hence the Tank Buff (Blasters want one Tank on the team/league) 

 

If you wipe the pieces off the board and just stare at the squares the strategy becomes damn clear. Do not get lost in details. LOOK at the end result. The game is set up for Blasters now, with spots for a few support toons on any team/league.

You know, I don't usually agree with Snarky. But when I do it's because he's right.

 

Here's another example: The IO system. What's the easiest thing to get using set IOs? Defense. You know what's really hard to get with set IOs? A noticeable increase in damage output.

 

So Blasters (and other squishies) can increase their durability to at least Scrapper levels, but can a Tanker increase their damage output to Scrapper levels? Nope. It's almost like the entire IO system was deliberately designed to allow squishies to increase their durability but to prevent anyone from challenging Blaster's and Scrapper's damage output. 

[Snarky]

Being constantly offended doesn't mean you're right, it means you're too narcissistic to tolerate opinions different than your own.

 

You say that like there is something wrong with it...

[PeregrineFalcon]

1 hour ago, Snarky said:

You say that like there is something wrong with it...

Oh, c'mon man! Now you're just trying to get me in trouble. You know darn well I can't respond to that without getting another involuntary forum vacation.

[Gobbledigook]

1 hour ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

You know, I don't usually agree with Snarky. But when I do it's because he's right.

 

Here's another example: The IO system. What's the easiest thing to get using set IOs? Defense. You know what's really hard to get with set IOs? A noticeable increase in damage output.

 

So Blasters (and other sqIuishies) can increase their durability to at least Scrapper levels, but can a Tanker increase their damage output to Scrapper levels? Nope. It's almost like the entire IO system was deliberately designed to allow squishies to increase their durability but to prevent anyone from challenging Blaster's and Scrapper's damage output. 

I find this a little too much. I doubt a Blaster will have Scrapper survivability. They can try to stay at range (sometimes) to be more survivable but the damage will suffer.

 

I do agree that it is easier to increase survival than damage though with IO's. Fire/cold, defense/resist seems one of the easiest to increase favoring some sets. The +damage in IO sets is  certainly not worth chasing. Increasing the +damage in IO's would also just benefit Blasters even more.

 

Scrappers never really had a hard time surviving but Blasters did. So i guess that is why the IO sets favor them. But what do we do about that now?