Is changing the power levels power creep?

[biostem]

3 minutes ago, Rudra said:

We're getting off track, but I also bought a lifetime subscription when CO came out. And unless you had a paid subscription, you only got to play archetypes. Then they changed it so that there were now 2 tiers of free forms. And yes, a lot of the powers were charge to use (or the power was worthless) or hold to maintain (locking you out of other powers). And for as long as CoX was not available, players would spend an amazing amount of time on CO talking about how perfect CoX was and how lousy CO is. So seeing comparisons between CoX and CO on the HC forums where CO is portrayed favorably is mind-blowing.

The ATs were added when they went free to play.  As my time played can attest to, I like CoH much much more.  I got bored of all the tank-mages that could self heal and self buff to the high heavens, while firing off top-tier attacks.  Heck, even the pets they have there are boring compared to the few sets MMs here have, and the ones in CO span many different types.

Edited October 12, 2022 by biostem

[Rudra]

And the power choice pets are significantly inferior to the temp power pets you have to get from the lockboxes or auction house. (Edit: Though I remember the ATs always being there. Just not used by anyone having half a brain.)

Edited October 12, 2022 by Rudra

[biostem]

There was another CoH server that moved controller pets to be the first or second power.  It greatly changes the dynamic of the sets, and eliminates and desire or requirement to "build up" to that point.  I don't think the solution is simply shuffling powers, but perhaps look into something akin to alternate versions of existing sets - imagine a hypothetical "pyroclastic control" which is fire control, but with the order of the powers and their respective values changed around.  Maybe you get imps much earlier, but they are weaker, while the single target hold comes much later but is devastatingly more powerful...

[agentx5]

On 10/12/2022 at 7:09 PM, Yaliw said:

It was primarily an attempt to see why people don't like these level changes. I don't think the T8's or T9's are too strong but I figured the people not wanting this change thought the T8's and T9's were (and thus not a good idea at lower levels) and that's why they are so vehemently against this change.

 

So far they say that these powers are not too strong even at these new obtainable levels so I genuinely have no idea what their argument is other than precedence; which is a weak argument for or against something.

 

I see I got down voted because people didn't read into that context but this is the internet so that's my fault.

 

Don't worry, we still like you!  Just ask poor @Troo

You have to have some down votes to be one of the cool-kid rebel crowd, right?  Red-Side-Best-Side? 

 

But in all seriousness jokes aside, I think people are often afraid of change, even changes they were asking for.

Edit:

See!  @Doc_Scorpion  fears the change!   teehee

Edited October 14, 2022 by agentx5
I see you!

[Darkaiser]

On 10/5/2022 at 5:15 PM, Seed22 said:

Thats a roleplaying( and should be likened to an aesthetic) standpoint. I am not a roleplayer, I WILL NOT embrace any RP reasons for…anything. I get what you’re trying to say but it comes across as “I see this as an RP aspect of CoH” i see it as an objective unlock and thats it, if I want to experience a hero going on ajourney, there’s Invincible( which i love!) on Amazon.

 

 

I liken this to how folks hate Redside writing for one reason or another; it’s a choice but by no means should I try and FORCE you to like Redside writing 

Even if the RP aspects of the game are brought up, they're pointless because there have been MANY characters in the comics (and let's face it, that's where all of this comes from) that had zero powers one day and many powers the next. Sure, you could say that they picked up more contacts, more money, or more gadgets during their career but their core character didn't change.

 

Luke Cage didn't study fighting or grow measurably tougher during his career. Cyclops of the X-men learned some mental defense tricks and leadership skills but his primary power, his optic blast, has not grown more powerful over time. Spider-Man is still Spider-Man. Most of the changes to that character come from his personal life, not his powers.

 

So, there is comic book canon that points to people having no powers in the morning and many if not all of their powers that night.

[Greycat]

12 minutes ago, Darkaiser said:

So, there is comic book canon that points to people having no powers in the morning and many if not all of their powers that night.

 

That is a *book,* comic or otherwise. People do not play them (in the non-audiobook sense.) It doesn't have to worry about level progression or balance.  If the antagonist needs a harder enemy, one is written in. If they need to just be able to plow through minions? That's written in, even if an issue before they were getting their butts handed to them by three no-name minions. If they need to suddenly find and be affected by Paisley Maguffinite and have all their powers reverse on them, that's written in.

[Starhammer]

On 10/11/2022 at 3:18 PM, BrandX said:

 

So be able to take those Fire Armor shields and combine them with Super Reflex shields! \o/

A defensive set and a buff set on the same character? Sounds cool. Lacks a little offense, but that can be picked up in pool powers.

Honestly, if you're going to aggressively and intentionally misunderstand the point, just block me and be done with it. Nobody needs that detracting from the conversation.

[BrandX]

12 hours ago, Starhammer said:

A defensive set and a buff set on the same character? Sounds cool. Lacks a little offense, but that can be picked up in pool powers.

Honestly, if you're going to aggressively and intentionally misunderstand the point, just block me and be done with it. Nobody needs that detracting from the conversation.

 

Per you...

"So for me, I'd love to be able to pick whatever powers at whatever level (frankly I'd like to mix and match from different sets at that... 3-4 different melee sets, or combine dual pistols and assault rifle... etc),"

 

Which I made a comment on.  Not sure what you're getting at 😛

[Unclemarty]

The great part about this game is difficulty is adjustable. If it’s too easy from powers coming earlier can’t people just bump the difficulty? Or is +4x8 still too easy for groups in the 20-30 ish range when the strong (yet unslotted) powers are available?

[BrandX]

Haven't felt the levels be easier, just felt the levels be cooler!

[Marbing]

19 minutes ago, BrandX said:

Haven't felt the levels be easier, just felt the levels be cooler!

To this point, has anyone noticed the doom that was exclaimed by these changes? What has been everyone's experience thus far? I feel like we have had to have run some Yin's, how did those go? How are we feeling now that this has been released?

[BrandX]

1 hour ago, Marbing said:

To this point, has anyone noticed the doom that was exclaimed by these changes? What has been everyone's experience thus far? I feel like we have had to have run some Yin's, how did those go? How are we feeling now that this has been released?

 

Ran some.  Felt the same.  Mind you, I haven't run it with a bunch of kitted out 50's.

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, Marbing said:

To this point, has anyone noticed the doom that was exclaimed by these changes? What has been everyone's experience thus far? I feel like we have had to have run some Yin's, how did those go? How are we feeling now that this has been released?

Haven't run anything yet. No opinion.

 

(Edit: The characters I've been playing are already past the changes, so can't test them. The characters I can test with, I haven't been playing recently and won't until the computer with their planned builds is operational again.)

Edited October 20, 2022 by Rudra

[Yaliw]

The change hasn't been DOOOOM but it's also not been... unDOOOOM? The most noticeable change for my characters have been 'different' but not more or less powerful.

 

I understand this isn't a quantifiable answer but I feel like this change hasn't done much to swing power in either direction. I lost lower level hasten to get dark extraction at 24.. my stalker got lightning rod earlier but I lost weave at 26. That's possibly the most 'power' I've gotten out of the change but weave is passive and its hard to quantify its power in this case.

 

Overall the change has been... different. Not good or bad power wise.

 

I like having lightning rod early and dark extraction but without slots its not doing a lot. On top of that, I'm missing key 'boring' powers that round out the build. Like yeah, I get lightning rod at 21 exemplared down but it hasn't really changed the flow of the game so far.

[Doc_Scorpion]

On 10/20/2022 at 10:27 AM, Yaliw said:

The change hasn't been DOOOOM but it's also not been... unDOOOOM? The most noticeable change for my characters have been 'different' but not more or less powerful.

Heavily depends on what your T8/T9 is...  For my Bots/FF MM, getting Upgrade early (she's currently level locked at 29) was a massive uptick in capability (on top of the other buffs).  I expect the same will be true of 'trollers.  Their pets are game changers.

[SeraphimKensai]

On 10/16/2022 at 9:10 AM, BrandX said:

 

Per you...

"So for me, I'd love to be able to pick whatever powers at whatever level (frankly I'd like to mix and match from different sets at that... 3-4 different melee sets, or combine dual pistols and assault rifle... etc),"

 

Which I made a comment on.  Not sure what you're getting at 😛

CoH's Alpha didn't feature Archetypes, you would freeform pick powers as you leveled up. Jack really liked that idea, and it's why he brought it over to CO as he is a huge fanboy of the Champion's Universe and was excited when Cryptic got the rights for CO.

 

Archetypes came at the behest of NCSoft, thinking it would cause players to keep subscriptions longer as they play multiple roles for a new experience with the game.

 

So Archetypes were added in as NCSoft had the money and the game evolved as you see.

[BrandX]

6 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

CoH's Alpha didn't feature Archetypes, you would freeform pick powers as you leveled up. Jack really liked that idea, and it's why he brought it over to CO as he is a huge fanboy of the Champion's Universe and was excited when Cryptic got the rights for CO.

 

Archetypes came at the behest of NCSoft, thinking it would cause players to keep subscriptions longer as they play multiple roles for a new experience with the game.

 

So Archetypes were added in as NCSoft had the money and the game evolved as you see.

 

I've heard that before.  

[Rudra]

Huh. I was told CoX went archetype because everyone just made flying mage tanks. So the archetypes were added to create some diversity.

[Seed22]

Well I for one love it so far on my ill psi dom

[Blackbird71]

On 10/5/2022 at 2:51 PM, Yomo Kimyata said:

To answer the question in your title, there's no creep about it.  It's an instantaneous quantum jump easier.

 

Quote

What is a quantum? A quantum (plural: quanta) is the smallest discrete unit of a phenomenon. For example, a quantum of light is a photon, and a quantum of electricity is an electron. Quantum comes from Latin, meaning "an amount" or "how much?" If something is quantifiable, then it can be measured.

 

So, in saying this is a "quantum jump," you're saying this is the smallest increase possible that can still be called a jump?