Best secondary?

[Spankea]

Are there any better secondaries right now other than ENA and Fire?

 

edit: I'm kinda stumped on only playing these two and would like to be talked into others.

Edited November 8, 2022 by Spankea

[SomeGuy]

They're all good. Play what's fun.

[TheMoncrief]

Shield Defense is quite solid, especially if your primary is light on AoE attacks, as it comes with quite a good AoE attack of its own. It's got a decent layer of resistance, excellent positional defense, and a bit of +MaxHP. Plus the aforementioned AoE attack, and a taunt aura (even for Scrappers) that gives you a damage buff. The only real downsides to Shield Defense are its lack of Endurance support and the cosmetic requirement that your character use, you know, a shield.

 

Willpower is decent as a basically zero effort secondary that will keep you alive through most things. It does tend to fall apart in the face of debuffs, but is respectable against pretty much anything else.

 

Honestly, all the secondaries are at least functional. But my experience is that Shield and Willpower are the right combination of effective and fun to be worth playing even when I'm not in the mood for most of the other secondaries.

[Snarky]

Regen.  So good they are planning on nerfing it next page I heard.

[Lazarillo]

Willpower is just pretty close to unbeatable for wide-range utility, to me.  It's got a taunt aura, and Terrorize protection, which unlike a lot of holes in defense sets, aren't things you can effectively make up for the lack of via IOs or pool powers.  So unlike other sets, it's the easiest one to just kinda charge in and not worry too hard about the enemy group you're fighting at any given point, or which can go full bore on the widest group of enemies without having to be annoyed by any of them running off for parts unknown.

 

Shield, in fairness, also can do those things, but Shield locks you into specific animations, makes you run funny, and has a limited number of primaries it can be matched to, so it loses style points, and those are important in determining what's "best" too!

[Spankea]

2 hours ago, TheMoncrief said:

Shield Defense is quite solid, especially if your primary is light on AoE attacks, as it comes with quite a good AoE attack of its own. It's got a decent layer of resistance, excellent positional defense, and a bit of +MaxHP. Plus the aforementioned AoE attack, and a taunt aura (even for Scrappers) that gives you a damage buff. The only real downsides to Shield Defense are its lack of Endurance support and the cosmetic requirement that your character use, you know, a shield.

 

Willpower is decent as a basically zero effort secondary that will keep you alive through most things. It does tend to fall apart in the face of debuffs, but is respectable against pretty much anything else.

 

Honestly, all the secondaries are at least functional. But my experience is that Shield and Willpower are the right combination of effective and fun to be worth playing even when I'm not in the mood for most of the other secondaries.

Axe/Shield looks like a solid pick.  With foldspace, combat tp, axe cyclone, and shield charge, that's a lot of tp action.

[TheMoncrief]

23 minutes ago, Lazarillo said:

Willpower is just pretty close to unbeatable for wide-range utility, to me.  It's got a taunt aura, and Terrorize protection, which unlike a lot of holes in defense sets, aren't things you can effectively make up for the lack of via IOs or pool powers.  So unlike other sets, it's the easiest one to just kinda charge in and not worry too hard about the enemy group you're fighting at any given point, or which can go full bore on the widest group of enemies without having to be annoyed by any of them running off for parts unknown.

 

Shield, in fairness, also can do those things, but Shield locks you into specific animations, makes you run funny, and has a limited number of primaries it can be matched to, so it loses style points, and those are important in determining what's "best" too!

I would argue that Shield Defense is superior for any character concept that works with carrying around a shield. But the requirement to actually use a shield completely invalidates for any character concept that doesn't work with having a big portable wall attached to your arm.

[Sarion]

3 hours ago, Snarky said:

Regen.  So good they are planning on nerfing it next page I heard.

As it should be. The day a patch goes out and regen is not at the very least considered for a nerf is the day the universe will collapse in on itself! #nerfregenforlife !!!111oneoneone

[Thrax]

Sr is my go to answer but I think rad is a blast. Use the t9 on cooldown it’s awesome. 

[Spankea]

18 minutes ago, Thrax said:

Sr is my go to answer but I think rad is a blast. Use the t9 on cooldown it’s awesome. 

I'm trying a rad/axe tank right now.

[Lazarillo]

3 hours ago, TheMoncrief said:

I would argue that Shield Defense is superior for any character concept that works with carrying around a shield. But the requirement to actually use a shield completely invalidates for any character concept that doesn't work with having a big portable wall attached to your arm.

There's a fair variety of concepts, I think, but even when I have one (I actually had idea for a Shield/Stone Tank just the other day), I get put off by that weird, arm-wiggling movement when you run.  I wish characters without weapons could just move their arms normally when the shield was engaged.

[Blackjoy]

I've been working my way through secondaries lately. I"m playing them naked, only using IOs, no pool power mitigation, no Inspirations.  Running mostly solo and teaming rarely.

 

So far I've played, /SR, /Regen, /Will, /Rad.

 

On a brute Ive run /Shield

 

I don't use any set bonuses except for Overwhelming Fear.  

 

Regen

Of those sets, /Regen is by far the easiest to level up and the most survivable, but the least playable.   This set takes the most focus to play and can die fairly quickly if you are playing up, and aren't paying attention.  By the mid to late 30's, I can solo +3x0's naked.  /Regen also has the most up time.  The T9 works great for taking non-psi alphas and feels up a fair amount.   However, /Regen falls off at the end game because the damage spikes are so high, you won't be able to use DP or IH reactively.

 

Willpower

/Willpower started out really strong.  But by late 30's it starts to drop off.  It has the hardest time with upping the diff because it's +regen aura is a lot less effective against +2/3 solo bosses and EB's.  WP is held bak by the lack of a +Heal power.   /WP can get overwhelmed, and when that happens, you don't have a way to recover.   The T9 is not impressive, imo, and cannot be slotted for recharge. By level 50, with using Set IOs, I can 4x8 some mobs but not all.   I also find /WP tough to slot if you don't have Mids.   It's not clear whether to go +DEF or +RES.

 

Radiation Armo

This is a great set.  If we factor survivability and playability, this set edges past /Regen.  It has two a +heal, a +absob, and like three powers that affect +recovery.    The T9 is one of the most usable and its aura is a +recharge which compliments its click mitigation. The T9 also has +DMG, so with +recharge and +DMG, the set works both sides of the "I win" equation.  by 33, I was doing 3x0 with no inspiration.  Of course my primary was EM, so that might have helped.

 

Super Reflexes

This is the worst experience you'll have leveling up.   No +recovery, +heal/absorb, no Fear protection.  Until recently, you couldn't get any meaningful +DEF until your 30's.   Despite the name,  you will get hit.   You'll also have get comfortable fighting in the yellow and red, at least against +0's.   The passive +RES does work really well against minion type damage and gives you plenty of time to run away.  But Boses and EB will punch right through your scaling +RES, which doesn't work at all against Toxic or Psi.  So those damage types will cut through you like butter.   /SR also has THE words T9.  It dramatically increases your foot speed making it hard to manuever and it no only endo crashes you out to zero, it stops recover for like 10 seconds or so.   In fact, most /SR's don't take the T9 because you'll never want to use it. 

 

One area where /SR does shine is avoiding Debuffs.  However, /SR gets lauded because it's so easy to cap your +DEF for the end game.   And in the world of scrappers, capping +DEF is pretty close to god mode.  My 300m DM/SR can pretty easily do 4x8 solo.  Incarnate mobs will give you trouble if you're only soft capping at 45%.   Devouring Earth with quartz crystals, can kill you quickly.  Ghost Widow can Fear you.   That's about it.

 

Shield

Leveling up, /Shield is almost worse than /SR.   Except it gets AoE +DEF a lot earlier.  By end game, Shield if just flat out better.  It gives nearly the sam +DEF, adds +RES and +Health, and does it with fewer powers...while adding Fear protection.   If you want a better version of /SR...go shield.

 

 

Edited November 9, 2022 by Blackjoy

[BrandX]

I don't recall Fire Armor being considered a good Secondary on Scrappers 😛  Not that I would discourage it's use.

 

 

[Spankea]

9 hours ago, Blackjoy said:

I've been working my way through secondaries lately. I"m playing them naked, only using IOs, no pool power mitigation, no Inspirations.  Running mostly solo and teaming rarely.

 

So far I've played, /SR, /Regen, /Will, /Rad.

 

On a brute Ive run /Shield

 

I don't use any set bonuses except for Overwhelming Fear.  

 

Regen

Of those sets, /Regen is by far the easiest to level up and the most survivable, but the least playable.   This set takes the most focus to play and can die fairly quickly if you are playing up, and aren't paying attention.  By the mid to late 30's, I can solo +3x0's naked.  /Regen also has the most up time.  The T9 works great for taking non-psi alphas and feels up a fair amount.   However, /Regen falls off at the end game because the damage spikes are so high, you won't be able to use DP or IH reactively.

 

Willpower

/Willpower started out really strong.  But by late 30's it starts to drop off.  It has the hardest time with upping the diff because it's +regen aura is a lot less effective against +2/3 solo bosses and EB's.  WP is held bak by the lack of a +Heal power.   /WP can get overwhelmed, and when that happens, you don't have a way to recover.   The T9 is not impressive, imo, and cannot be slotted for recharge. By level 50, with using Set IOs, I can 4x8 some mobs but not all.   I also find /WP tough to slot if you don't have Mids.   It's not clear whether to go +DEF or +RES.

 

Radiation Armo

This is a great set.  If we factor survivability and playability, this set edges past /Regen.  It has two a +heal, a +absob, and like three powers that affect +recovery.    The T9 is one of the most usable and its aura is a +recharge which compliments its click mitigation. The T9 also has +DMG, so with +recharge and +DMG, the set works both sides of the "I win" equation.  by 33, I was doing 3x0 with no inspiration.  Of course my primary was EM, so that might have helped.

 

Super Reflexes

This is the worst experience you'll have leveling up.   No +recovery, +heal/absorb, no Fear protection.  Until recently, you couldn't get any meaningful +DEF until your 30's.   Despite the name,  you will get hit.   You'll also have get comfortable fighting in the yellow and red, at least against +0's.   The passive +RES does work really well against minion type damage and gives you plenty of time to run away.  But Boses and EB will punch right through your scaling +RES, which doesn't work at all against Toxic or Psi.  So those damage types will cut through you like butter.   /SR also has THE words T9.  It dramatically increases your foot speed making it hard to manuever and it no only endo crashes you out to zero, it stops recover for like 10 seconds or so.   In fact, most /SR's don't take the T9 because you'll never want to use it. 

 

One area where /SR does shine is avoiding Debuffs.  However, /SR gets lauded because it's so easy to cap your +DEF for the end game.   And in the world of scrappers, capping +DEF is pretty close to god mode.  My 300m DM/SR can pretty easily do 4x8 solo.  Incarnate mobs will give you trouble if you're only soft capping at 45%.   Devouring Earth with quartz crystals, can kill you quickly.  Ghost Widow can Fear you.   That's about it.

 

Shield

Leveling up, /Shield is almost worse than /SR.   Except it gets AoE +DEF a lot earlier.  By end game, Shield if just flat out better.  It gives nearly the sam +DEF, adds +RES and +Health, and does it with fewer powers...while adding Fear protection.   If you want a better version of /SR...go shield.

 

 

I'm thinking rad or bio for my next project.  Most likely rad because the animations on bio aren't great, just a personal preference.

[Spankea]

8 hours ago, BrandX said:

I don't recall Fire Armor being considered a good Secondary on Scrappers 😛  Not that I would discourage it's use.

 

 

Survivability isn't great, they're very niche for what I'm looking for.

[BrandX]

4 minutes ago, Spankea said:

Survivability isn't great, they're very niche for what I'm looking for.

 

A project I may do myself, as I've done it with my current main, a KM/Elec Scrapper, is max those resists and go with the recharge.  It did just get the +HP and +Regen added to it and I had a Katana/Fire Scrapper alt back w/ Paragon Studios.

[Frozen Burn]

Yeah, Fire armor is not the greatest as people make it out to be.  It's doable, but it requires the Fighting pool, heavy set bonuses, and lots of recharge in the heal.  And for scrappers, you're still squishie.

 

No one has mentioned Dark Armor yet.  It is one of my favorite sets...

• Early game it is end heavy and you have to manage your toggles - if you're not fighting a mob that does Fire/Cold damage, then turn off your Fire/Cold Resist toggle.  Same with your En/Neg toggle.  Toggle them on/off as needed until you have end managed with IOs. 
  • (If you are running Dark Melee as primary, you'll get Dark Consumption which can alleviate your end problems early on.)
• The Heal need to be slotted for some ACC and lots of Rech over heals.  It can cost a lot of End as well, but adding in the Theft of Essence +End proc negates and/or gives you a bonus of end upon most uses.
• Cloak of Fear - it's a cool power, but it takes HEAVY slotting to be on par.  It has a lower base Acc (60%) so requires extra Acc.  It is a VERY heavy toggle with End use and needs extra End redux.  And the Fear is only mag 2, so you only get minions.  It's not worth the slotting or use, imo - I skip this power 99% of the time.
• Oppressive Gloom - is far better than Cloak of Fear in that the toggle costs practically nothing to run.  It is mag 2 stun, so only minions as well, but given the extremely low end cost, and normal base ACC (75%), it's doesn't need a lot of slots, if any.  An Acc/Mez HO is just fine and you take minions out of the fight.  It does damage YOU a couple hps per tic per minion, but it is negligible and your normal regen will counter it unless you're in a huge mob - but then you also have the strongest self heal in the game!

 

[Neiska]

Personally my favorite armor set is Bio, but judging by the trend of what gets changed I fully expect that to be next on the chopping block.

[BrandX]

20 minutes ago, Frozen Burn said:

Yeah, Fire armor is not the greatest as people make it out to be.  It's doable, but it requires the Fighting pool, heavy set bonuses, and lots of recharge in the heal.  And for scrappers, you're still squishie.

 

No one has mentioned Dark Armor yet.  It is one of my favorite sets...

• Early game it is end heavy and you have to manage your toggles - if you're not fighting a mob that does Fire/Cold damage, then turn off your Fire/Cold Resist toggle.  Same with your En/Neg toggle.  Toggle them on/off as needed until you have end managed with IOs. 
  • (If you are running Dark Melee as primary, you'll get Dark Consumption which can alleviate your end problems early on.)
• The Heal need to be slotted for some ACC and lots of Rech over heals.  It can cost a lot of End as well, but adding in the Theft of Essence +End proc negates and/or gives you a bonus of end upon most uses.
• Cloak of Fear - it's a cool power, but it takes HEAVY slotting to be on par.  It has a lower base Acc (60%) so requires extra Acc.  It is a VERY heavy toggle with End use and needs extra End redux.  And the Fear is only mag 2, so you only get minions.  It's not worth the slotting or use, imo - I skip this power 99% of the time.
• Oppressive Gloom - is far better than Cloak of Fear in that the toggle costs practically nothing to run.  It is mag 2 stun, so only minions as well, but given the extremely low end cost, and normal base ACC (75%), it's doesn't need a lot of slots, if any.  An Acc/Mez HO is just fine and you take minions out of the fight.  It does damage YOU a couple hps per tic per minion, but it is negligible and your normal regen will counter it unless you're in a huge mob - but then you also have the strongest self heal in the game!

 

 

Ran a Spines/Dark Scrapper back with Paragon Studios.  Was able to keep the damage toggles going while running thea good enough ST DPS chain it could solo AVs.

 

It' been awhile, but I had it pretty survivable.  I didn't use OG.  I did use CoF, the -toHit and fear effect.

 

For Dark Armor tho, my suggestion is to always have all the +END/REC Procs at the ready!  Numina/Miracle/Panacea/Performance Shift/Theft of Essence: +End Proc (for Dark Regen) and slot them ASAP!  So lowest level on those IOs!  Makes the experience much more enjoyable imo.

 

I just wish I had that build still, but you know, lost in that time of no CoH.

 

As for FA's changes.  Well, of course my already great Fire Armor Tanker was just helped more by the changes, but I would love to know ho much it's felt to help the Scrappers, more specifically, the ones that didn't focus on Defense bonuses (this isn't to say no defense in build).

[Zepp]

Currently working on incarnate slots for a Titan Weapons / Fire Aura. Fire is more survivable than it looks like on paper and has some extra damage powers if you lack AoE. I don't actually use the heal...

That said, my build would likely be considered on the expensive end.

 

I find Regen can be incredibly strong if you are clever and proactive, but is generally not good. Super Reflexes is amazing, until it isn't. If you are a gambler, Super Reflexes is your drug of choice. Ninjitsu is really fun, but not as survivable as other armors. Stone is interesting... and Invulnerability is really good, especially since the Psi hole is so easy to fill.

Shield and Bio (with Rad a close third) are seen as the top tier generally, and with energy or elemental shields you can make them work with a variety of concepts. Although a well-built Willpower is probably peak survivability as it has good layering.

 

Almost forgot, Elec is really fun v sappers...

Edited December 19, 2022 by Zepp

[brasilgringo]

/Rad is pretty good if you convert its PBAOEs (Rad Therapy, Ground Zero) to proc-bomb attacks, especially if you have a primary that's light on AOE.  That's why I like my EnergyMelee/Rad so much.