Is SR too End Heavy?

[drgantz]

I was playing an StJ/SR Stalker in the 40s and had trouble with end.  Many of the baddies were Arachnos, which might be drainers.  Others were Family, which I don't believe were drainers.

I had to deactivate Tough and Weave, but still had end problems.  I  had to slow down attacks to avoid dropping my def toggles.

I had Stamina 3 and Physical Perfection 3 slotted with End Mod SOs.

I didn't have any End Red.

I often wonder if a different Secondary might have been better.
The toon is Natural Origin, so I want to stay within theme.

[aethereal]

I mean, a different secondary that has an endurance tool would certainly make it easier.  Also the global recharge in SR acts as a sneaky way of worsening your endurance economy, since you can use your powers more often.

 

But really, this is a pretty straightforward issue of: "You're slotting with SOs and you don't have any endurance reduction."  I feel like people here really, really work to make their own lives difficult by ignoring IO sets for actively played toons.  Just buy a bunch of attuned yellow sets.  You will get endurance reduction, you will get better enhancement values on your abilities, and you'll also pick up a bunch of minor endurance economy benefits through set bonuses.  It will cost you, I don't know, 20-30M inf?  If you just flush that money straight down the toilet (ie, make no effort to recover it), then, what, that makes your end-game cost for this character go from 500M inf to 530M inf?  Who cares!  If you do care, buy a couple million inf worth of enhancement unslotters, unslot all the yellow sets, and then gift them to your next toon who's going to do this, so you don't have to do it again.

 

For people who insist on SO builds for whatever reason, you need to slot endurance reduction.

[kelika2]

End reduction in attacks will have a huge impact.

But miracle/numina/panacea in health + end reduction in toggles also helps

in a few levels you should unlock body mastery.  And Superior Conditioning + Physical perfection are amazing PerfShifter +end mules

[Erratic1]

I'm left contemplating an end game cost of 500 million. 

[Clave Dark 5]

On 11/24/2022 at 10:55 AM, drgantz said:

I was playing an StJ/SR Stalker in the 40s and had trouble with end.  Many of the baddies were Arachnos, which might be drainers.  Others were Family, which I don't believe were drainers.

I had to deactivate Tough and Weave, but still had end problems.  I  had to slow down attacks to avoid dropping my def toggles.

I had Stamina 3 and Physical Perfection 3 slotted with End Mod SOs.

I didn't have any End Red.

I often wonder if a different Secondary might have been better.
The toon is Natural Origin, so I want to stay within theme.

Drainers will always be a problem.  Me, I'd say if you have SR you're not going to need Tough and Weave anyway.  I often end up finding those "Hope Diamonds"* in a build and often can't run them for like half the leveling life of the toon, so these days I work them OUT of a build. 

 

If you're in your 40s by now, then some slotting problem would be my guess too, like you need the Miracle: +Health/End.  You could swap secondaries, but I really don't think you'll need to.  You might trawl through the stalker forums here looking for builds you can emulate or lift ideas for slotting from.  My main from live was an SR and following a pretty cheapo build (like I could afford to IO out a toon back in those days!), and I don't recall he ever had any real problems.  Slot Endurance Reduction!  😃

 

*You don't hear much talk about it these days, but the Hope Diamond supposedly had a curse pon it that brought misfortune and tragedy to anyone who owned it.

Edited November 26, 2022 by Clave Dark 5

[Doomguide2005]

     Yes, slot endurance reduction.  Slot at least some in everything particularly if using SOs only.  Attacks not toggles are your biggest end use.  Therefore slot endurance reduction in them but also make sure you're hitting.  A missed attack is endurance spent for no gain.   The idea SR uses more endurance than other sets is also largely hyperbole.  It's toggles cost the exact same thing as more than a few toggles in other sets (Unyielding,  Kinetic Shield, Fire Shield, Alpha Barrier, Hardened Carapace, Integration, etc., etc.).  Yes it's less than some others --> 0.26 end/sec in SR vs 0.208 (I believe is another common cost), a 0.052 end/sec difference ... or less than what it costs to run Combat Jumping.  If you're having end problems from a combo of +20% recharge and running those 3 toggles you're going to have endurance issues regardless.  Which points to other significant causes.  

 

     And yes Mu in Arachnos tend to be potent end drainers (and recovery debuffers as well I believe).  They'll drain any set that isn't drain resistant.  In fact SR probably has an advantage there.  Don't get hit you don't get mezzed.  You will also avoid those drain attacks.  But if endurance is already tight the few hits getting through will be relatively debilitating with no end drain or recovery protection   I don't believe Family as Gravity users have any endurance drain or recovery debuffs.

[tidge]

I don't recall my SR Stalker (with Street Justice attacks) having an abnormal amount of Endurance issues while leveling up. As I approached 20 (and the dropping of all the assorted benefits to low-level characters) I made sure to have attacks slotted with Accuracy then Endurance, and defenses got Endurance reduction FIRST. While leveling, the only Stalker toggle that doesn't get an Endurance reduction in the first slot is Hide, which gets a Kismet +6% ASAP, allowing me to back off on the Accuracy a little.

Edited November 29, 2022 by tidge
brain cloud

[MistressOhm]

Hide is so cheap to run that it's practically a passive.  Just slot for Defense (or as stated, Kismet global End Reduction) and run it all the damn time... unless you have to lead some poor fool to the door, or a box, or whatever, in which case, you have to put your clothes back on and stop being invisible. 

 

 

[drgantz]

Thanks everyone for your advice.  I put End Red IOs in 2 attack powers, and that seems to have fixed the end problem most of the time.

[aethereal]

5 hours ago, MistressOhm said:

Hide is so cheap to run that it's practically a passive.  

Hide in fact costs no endurance.

[Seed22]

On 11/24/2022 at 11:55 AM, drgantz said:

I had Stamina 3 and Physical Perfection 3 slotted with End Mod SOs

I assume the rest of your build is SOs? If so that's why.

 

SO's will feel rough compared to an IO'ed out build, or even compared to say, the performance shifter +end IO. Give it some time to get there! For mine, he practically doesn't have end issues, and DEFINITELY doesn't with ageless radial. Stj/SR as well. Give it some time to flesh out before dumpin em. SR on IO's is a thing of beauty imo.

[Wavicle]

Slot an End Red in your highest cost attacks. Should help a lot.

SR is fine. Street Justice is pretty heavy cost, but End Red should make the difference.

[SaintD]

On 11/29/2022 at 7:30 PM, tidge said:

I don't recall my SR Stalker (with Street Justice attacks) having an abnormal amount of Endurance issues while leveling up. As I approached 20 (and the dropping of all the assorted benefits to low-level characters) I made sure to have attacks slotted with Accuracy then Endurance, and defenses got Endurance reduction FIRST. While leveling, the only Stalker toggle that doesn't get an Endurance reduction in the first slot is Hide, which gets a Kismet +6% ASAP, allowing me to back off on the Accuracy a little.

Stalkers have a lot less Endurance problems in general while leveling up, thanks to AS simply deleting an enemy mob every time you click it, and a less full-on manner of play using Hide.