Melee Powerset Comparison

[Ston]

7 minutes ago, lightpunch said:

I'm pretty unfamiliar with MA. Can anyone explain to me why it performs so highly across all 3? Is it the fast activation times?

 

Storm Kick, Eagle's Claw, and Dragon's Tail are some of the best melee powers in the game. They can push some really good performance on each AT. Fast animations are a big part of it. But they also give special mechanics to each AT.

 

Scrappers: Eagle's Claw gives a +33% crit bonus for a short time to all MA powers
Tankers/Brutes: Storm Kick gives +5% defense to all for a short time

[Ston]

Testing brute vs tanker.. This is generally how it goes when solo'ing +4/x8. Using identical builds. SOs/HOs only (besides KB>KD in Shockwave). T4 Musculature Core & T4 Ageless Core.

 

The Brute does do better against +2... But things shift pretty quickly when there's more incoming damage. 
 

 

 

[Gobbledigook]

1 hour ago, Ston said:

 

Storm Kick, Eagle's Claw, and Dragon's Tail are some of the best melee powers in the game. They can push some really good performance on each AT. Fast animations are a big part of it. But they also give special mechanics to each AT.

 

Scrappers: Eagle's Claw gives a +33% crit bonus for a short time to all MA powers
Tankers/Brutes: Storm Kick gives +5% defense to all for a short time

Tankers get 10% defense. Brutes get 7.5% defense.

Eagle claw give bonus damage to them for a short time.

[StriderIV]

5 hours ago, Gobbledegook said:

Tankers get 10% defense. Brutes get 7.5% defense.

Eagle claw give bonus damage to them for a short time.

Interesting, I thought the bonus damage was only for scrappers. The more you know!

[Agorazium]

I’m curious, and this may be a dumb question but I always thought Katana was a Broadsword clone - what makes it perform so much better, on tanks in particular?

[Gobbledigook]

5 hours ago, Sovereigne said:

I’m curious, and this may be a dumb question but I always thought Katana was a Broadsword clone - what makes it perform so much better, on tanks in particular?

Katana and Broadsword get 1 PBAoE and 2 Cones which is good for clearing trash. Tankers get increased radius and targets boosting the cone. Katana has faster activation times than Broadsword. Tankers hit more but for less damage usually.

Edited December 14, 2022 by Gobbledegook

[electric_emu]

9 hours ago, Sovereigne said:

I’m curious, and this may be a dumb question but I always thought Katana was a Broadsword clone - what makes it perform so much better, on tanks in particular?

Katana's DPS is better, basically.  Its powers have some of the quickest cast times of any melee set.  Broadword deals more damage per hit, but not nearly enough to make up for how fast Katana is.  I imagine the target cap and arc/radius buffs are what allows Tanker Katana to pull even further ahead than Scrapper/Brute Katana.

 

The sets are indeed clones of each other in that their powers follow the same framework (right down to the T9 pseudo-cone).  It's the cast time, recharge, and damage that differ and Katana's just, well, better for it.

[Troo]

On 12/8/2022 at 8:53 AM, Ston said:

Lately I've been curious about how melee sets compare to each other across all ATs (except stalker, for now). I've been doing a lot of Trapdoor testing the past 2 years on Homecoming and decided to use it as a benchmark for this test (lots of runs posted on my Youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkPFdm3IxdIW6PdxApy55ng). After some discussion with Galaxy Brain, I decided to use Willpower for this test as it is the set that has the least impact on your damage output. 

The parameters for this test are as follows:

- "Track Down Trapdoor" mission set at +4/x8
    - Best two times recorded for each build (using the top two times and throwing out the others to account for getting better with the powerset with more practice)
- Inspirations allowed: Oranges, Blues, Greens (Choosing to ignore survivability and just test the damage output from melee sets. Using these inspirations will keep me alive but still allow me to be debuffed, unlike purple inspirations)
- Standard build:
    - Identical choices & slotting for all Willpower and pool powers
    - 90% recharge resistances on all builds
- Same Incarnate powers:
    - Tankers/Scrappers: Musc Radial, Reactive Radial, Ageless Core, Assault (Passive)
    - Brutes: Vigor Core, Reactive Radial, Ageless Core, Assault (Passive) (Brutes benefit more from endurance/accuracy enhancements)
 

Results:

Melee_Test.xlsx

 

 

 

 

***Disclaimers***
- I don't claim these are the best way to build these combos. My goal for this test was to get a baseline for performance across melee ATs using my personal playstyle. Open to any suggestions or feedback on how to improve these results! 
- Some builds may not be correct, please send me a message and I will fix them. 

***Note***
- Willpower has the weakest taunt aura of any Scrapper set. This will cause Scrapper times to be lower than Bio/Rad/Shield relative to their Tanker/Brute counterparts. I think this is a good thing since not all Scrapper secondaries get a taunt aura. Willpower ends up being a nice benchmark between taunt aura and no taunt aura.

 

Discord: @Ston#0707

 

This is excellent work.

Sure, this is slanted toward heavy proc use and should favor Tanks over Scrappers and Brutes. Still it seems to be a solid data point.

• Another important data point would be the one proc limitation which would have different results.
• Another data point would be the one proc limitation without Incarnates which may have different results.

Leveraging 4 or 5 procs may be the meta but is simply not what most players are doing.

 

 

M.E.T.A. as I understand it is the Most Effective Tactic Available.

The meta may change based on a number of factors. It may be different at level 40 versus level 50 and again versus Incarnate levels.

 

Basically, once getting in the ballpark of 100% damage and enough accuracy to reliably hit targets additional slotting could go to another power, enhance another aspect such as range, or be used to hold special proc enhancements. If your goal is damage a "chance of damage" might be best. There are also procs for +recharge, -resistance, -tohit, -defense, etc.

 

Some advanced number crunching can potentially reveal an optimal point where slotting below 100% damage in an individual power is more effective.

Here an example from @Ston makes sense:

• Musculature Core Paragon + (lvl 53 Acc/Dam HO x 2) + 4 procs
  • (2) Level 53 Acc/Dam HOs equals about 76% Acc/Dam
  • with more Acc/Dam and -end, +rech, etc potentially coming from other sources (other powers, other players, buffs, Incarnates, ect.)
  • and then the 4 procs on top of everything else

The next example from @Ston is simply broken and shows why procs will be addressed. Even 4 procs can seem extreme especially used on 16 targets.

• Vigor Core Paragon + (lvl 53 Acc/Dam HO x 1) + 5 procs
  • A level 53 Acc/Dam HOs equals 38.3% Acc/Dam
  • with most Acc/Dam and -end, +rech, etc coming from Incarnates and presumably buffs as well as other sources (other powers, other players, ect.)
  • and then 5 procs on top..

 

Edited December 17, 2022 by Troo

[Redletter]

On 12/8/2022 at 8:53 AM, Ston said:

Lately I've been curious about how melee sets compare to each other across all ATs (except stalker, for now). I've been doing a lot of Trapdoor testing the past 2 years on Homecoming and decided to use it as a benchmark for this test (lots of runs posted on my Youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkPFdm3IxdIW6PdxApy55ng). After some discussion with Galaxy Brain, I decided to use Willpower for this test as it is the set that has the least impact on your damage output. 

The parameters for this test are as follows:

- "Track Down Trapdoor" mission set at +4/x8
    - Best two times recorded for each build (using the top two times and throwing out the others to account for getting better with the powerset with more practice)
- Inspirations allowed: Oranges, Blues, Greens (Choosing to ignore survivability and just test the damage output from melee sets. Using these inspirations will keep me alive but still allow me to be debuffed, unlike purple inspirations)
- Standard build:
    - Identical choices & slotting for all Willpower and pool powers
    - 90% recharge resistances on all builds
- Same Incarnate powers:
    - Tankers/Scrappers: Musc Radial, Reactive Radial, Ageless Core, Assault (Passive)
    - Brutes: Vigor Core, Reactive Radial, Ageless Core, Assault (Passive) (Brutes benefit more from endurance/accuracy enhancements)
 

Results:

Melee_Test.xlsx

 

 

 

 

***Disclaimers***
- I don't claim these are the best way to build these combos. My goal for this test was to get a baseline for performance across melee ATs using my personal playstyle. Open to any suggestions or feedback on how to improve these results! 
- Some builds may not be correct, please send me a message and I will fix them. 

***Note***
- Willpower has the weakest taunt aura of any Scrapper set. This will cause Scrapper times to be lower than Bio/Rad/Shield relative to their Tanker/Brute counterparts. I think this is a good thing since not all Scrapper secondaries get a taunt aura. Willpower ends up being a nice benchmark between taunt aura and no taunt aura.

 

Discord: @Ston#0707

 

This is an awful lot of work just to say why we need super strength on scrappers, but I'm here for it!

[Yomo Kimyata]

On 12/13/2022 at 4:34 PM, Erratic1 said:

 

Was looking at Epic powers but should your build allow, Wall of Force does look to have reasonable recycle times.

 

I tend to lean towards (PB)AoEs because as a melee it makes it easier to hit things not having to think about adopting a position to maximize targets hit. What can I say? I'm lazy.

 

 

On 12/13/2022 at 5:16 PM, tidge said:

 

I gotcha. I started fooling with Wall of Force because:

• I got used to the travel power (having taken it on a specific character), and I always take a travel power,
• Once the travel power is taken, the barrier to entry is one (of two possible) single-target ranged power (each is proc-able, or for set mules in 'unorthodox' builds I suppose)... I have always taken the debuff Weaken Resolve (better %proc rates!)
• The pool includes a perfectly good LotG mule power as well.

On melee characters, I don't even bother to worry about enhancing range (as I often do with cones, also because 'lazy'). PVP Acc/End/Recharge 50+5 is just fine, even if it nibbles at the proc rates. 2-piece bonuses from either Javelin Volley or Bombardment is usually how I roll, depending on AT. I personally don't slot it with the %-Resistance from Annihilation, but I wouldn't argue with anyone who did so and took the 2-piece +MaxEnd bonus from that choice.

 

As for Epic/Patron powers... sometimes there are some sweet choices! I can see something like Melt Armor speeding up defeat times.. at least if you were to time its use for when you have multiple Boss or high-resist LTs close by, because of the inherently long recharge. AFAIK, this power does require an accuracy check, and given the inherently long recharge (200 seconds?) I think I'd rather just rely on the 30 second single-target recharge of Weaken Resolve for when I need it and drag the undefeated Bosses/Lts to the next spawn. If I want a lil' bit of %-Res I can always add thet %proc to the Wall of Force cone too!

 

Also part of my personal math is this: I rather like it when my (post-50) melee builds play the same (that is, same powers to click) across a wide range of content, including low levels. Having ultra-cool Epic powers but not having them available in low level content makes me somewhat sad. YMMV.

 

First, to @Ston, thanks for putting a lot of documented work into this.  People may not agree with all your choices, but the fact is that you tested a lot of data in a consistent manner and kept good records and that is enough for me.  One gold star for you!

 

RE:  Wall of Force.  The proc rates on this pool power by my calculations are significantly lower than anything in the epic pools (for scrappers at least).  I can't bring myself to 4/5 proc out a power when each proc only has a 15-25% chance to proc.  Too much variance.  I'd much rather proc out Ball Lightning or Sploding Shirkin which should get me somewhere north of 50% chance per proc.  That said, if you want more than one epic ranged AoE, WoF is, in fact, a ranged AoE.

[tidge]

2 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

 

 

First, to @Ston, thanks for putting a lot of documented work into this.  People may not agree with all your choices, but the fact is that you tested a lot of data in a consistent manner and kept good records and that is enough for me.  One gold star for you!

 

RE:  Wall of Force.  The proc rates on this pool power by my calculations are significantly lower than anything in the epic pools (for scrappers at least).  I can't bring myself to 4/5 proc out a power when each proc only has a 15-25% chance to proc.  Too much variance.  I'd much rather proc out Ball Lightning or Sploding Shirkin which should get me somewhere north of 50% chance per proc.  That said, if you want more than one epic ranged AoE, WoF is, in fact, a ranged AoE.

 

I've been using Wall of Force exclusively on Tankers and Controllers (with Ranged damage scales of 0.80 and 0.55) as a %proc attack.... available at a low level. I get it's raw proc rate (for 3.5 PPM) at somewhere north of 30% (I try to have an accuracy boost in the power at least 26%, FWIW) and an unenhanced recharge of 10 secs. IIRC the Epic (Mu) Ball Lightning unenhanced recharge time is around 30 sec with an equivalent %proc rate for stalkers (3.5 PPM) at close to the same value as WoF . I don't recommend spamming Wall of Force (or Ball Lightning) on a melee character, but having this power early in a build, it really helps each of those AT clear maps faster (and turn up spawn sizes sooner). I've never added Wall of Force to a Scrapper or Stalker build, I think every one of those I've ever built leverages a patron Snipe, and after that I am out of slots! 🙂

 

As for different sorts of timing (for arc rewards and not XP): Weekly, I run I did a low-level arc (SSA1, Theoden) at +0/x1 for rewards, so I have a good sense of how different AT perform on that arc (*1). (I'll run it both Red and Blue, but the times I'll quote are for Blue... Red is not very different, but slightly longer on average). My best times (no quick escapes or teleporting to missions) is on a Shield/Battle Axe Tanker, with Wall of Force. Doing nothing special except skipping a potential Magma Lord defeat in mission 1, the completion time for that character was 5:38(*2). I took that same character to Dark Astoria to run the Heather Townshend arc (with minimal fighting, again at +0/x8, but with a level shift of +1 and no incarnate powers beyond Alpha) and I was regularly getting completion times below 10 minute, even with unfavorable maps. These two times at different ends of the level range really surprised me! I'm not making claims of uber builds... it's just that compared with all the other characters in my stable, this one wins the gold medal on speed (without the Speed pool!) EDIT: I just logged in to try DA#1 with some effort at speed, and scored a time of 8m35s with some favorable arcs. None of my other characters come close... but this is more about Shield/BA than WoF (although I did use it)

 

(*1) Page 5 power and level choice changes improved time of that SSA1 arc significantly for my robotics/traps MM, but it is still the slowest to complete of my characters.

 

(*2) When I am just looking to speed those arcs: SSA1 blue side has a minimum number of defeats IIRC at 8 mobs. The DA #1 blue side has a minimum of 25 defeats IIRC, although each arc offers opportunities to add more defeats with no real effect on completion.

Edited December 18, 2022 by tidge

[brasilgringo]

On 12/13/2022 at 3:04 PM, Ston said:

 

Thanks Flea!

 

I didn’t have Mids updated at the time so I used those as placeholders for either Touch of Lady Grey or Achilles procs! Also the Overwhelming Force in Cremate were replaced by Explosive Strike and Force Feedback procs 😁 

 

Thanks. This really made me relook at Fire Melee on Tanks.  Couple questions:

 

1. Is Lady Gray Negative Energy or -RES Achilles Heel better in Fire Sword to sub the Lysome?  I presume you then put the other of the 2 in GFS?  Or do you put -RES Achilles in both to max chances?
2. Fire Sword Circle (on the tank build) had 2 Lysomes I think for last 2 slots - better to put 1-2 procs in place like maybe Zinger Psi dmg and Dervish Lethal Dmg?  Since apparently can't take (per mids) other procs besides what's already there?
3. Also in the Tank build, Incinerate doesn't have the Might of Tanker +RES IO - I assume that's an oversight? Or are you never using a power that would trigger the IO?
4. What's the recharge (global) needed to run FS/Gloom/GFS or some variation thereof?  Is GFS/Incinerate/Gloom higher DPS?

 

 

 

 

Elec_Fire_Tank.mxd

Edited December 20, 2022 by brasilgringo

[Ston]

On 12/19/2022 at 2:12 PM, brasilgringo said:

 

Thanks. This really made me relook at Fire Melee on Tanks.  Couple questions:

 

1. Is Lady Gray Negative Energy or -RES Achilles Heel better in Fire Sword to sub the Lysome?  I presume you then put the other of the 2 in GFS?  Or do you put -RES Achilles in both to max chances?
2. Fire Sword Circle (on the tank build) had 2 Lysomes I think for last 2 slots - better to put 1-2 procs in place like maybe Zinger Psi dmg and Dervish Lethal Dmg?  Since apparently can't take (per mids) other procs besides what's already there?
3. Also in the Tank build, Incinerate doesn't have the Might of Tanker +RES IO - I assume that's an oversight? Or are you never using a power that would trigger the IO?
4. What's the recharge (global) needed to run FS/Gloom/GFS or some variation thereof?  Is GFS/Incinerate/Gloom higher DPS?

 

 

 

 

Elec_Fire_Tank.mxd 5.09 kB · 2 downloads

 

1 & 2)

    FS: Lady Grey 

    FSC: Lady Grey & Achilles 

    GFS: Achilles (I only use one Achilles in ST chain, would rather get more proc damage)

 

3 & 4)

    I’d have to run the numbers for DPS, not sure how Incinerate performs. But I didn’t end up using it at all during testing. Just used it to mule an ATO or Purple set. The Tank builds didn’t end up needing the +res proc.. but yeah i would put it in there if I were using it. 

 

I think the issue with Incinerate is that it won’t always do it’s full damage. So it’s better to just use Gloom>GFS>FS. Not sure what recharge is needed to maintain that, but on long fights i’ll fill that chain with Dark Oblit. In a real build, I’d switch Incinerate with Cross Punch, but couldn’t with the parameters of this test.

 

If this were a hardmode build and I needed to do some heavier tanking, I’d probably just 4-6 slot GFS with the tanker ATO

Edited December 20, 2022 by Ston

[JayboH]

On 12/8/2022 at 3:15 PM, JasperStone said:

I am stunned about Ice Melee.

I'm not.  All I wanted after its revamp was to have patch sped up, and they agreed and sped it up.

[JayboH]

On 12/8/2022 at 2:49 PM, Astralock said:

It’s both a little sad and disgusting that Tanker holds the two fastest times.  Clearly Tankers are not overpowered. /s

Note:  brutes have less damage buff if you noticed their alphas compared to tankers/scrappers

[Ston]

8 hours ago, JayboH said:

Note:  brutes have less damage buff if you noticed their alphas compared to tankers/scrappers

 

Brutes don't benefit from Musculature as much as Tankers/Scrappers. 

Using Broadsword's Disembowel as an example:

Base = 81.75dmg

+ 85% Fury = 220.7dmg
+ 85% Fury + T4 Musculature Radial + (2 * lvl 53 Acc/Dam HO) + 4 Damage Procs (3.5PPM) = 506.4dmg (average) 595.9dmg (max)

+ 85% Fury + T4 Vigor Core + (1 * lvl 53 Acc/Dam HO) + 5 Damage Procs (3.5PPM) = 499dmg (average) 610.8dmg (max)

 

*Using latest Mids values, so these could be wrong.

**Decided to create my own spreadsheet to calculate average damage using damage bonus, damage enhancement, and procs/ppm. I ended up getting the same value, so Mids should be correct here.

So the damage ends up being almost the same for each slotting strategy. I chose Vigor for the Brute because I think the buffs (acc/heal/end) ends up helping them more than Musculature. They'd only be doing marginally more damage with Musculature and would have to sacrifice some Heal/Regen which they desperately need to survive encounters that wouldn't even make a Tanker flinch.

Edited December 23, 2022 by Ston

[Ston]

To expand on my last reply... Here's how Claws compares on Tankers vs Brutes with about as much damage bonus as you can give yourself without outside buffs or long recharge powers (e.g. Adrenal Booster, Call To Justice).

 

Power:  Focus 

 

Active Effects:

- Hybrid Assault Radial (Passive)

- Follow Up (2 Stacks)

- Assault (Leadership)

- Gaussian's Build Up Proc

- Decimation Build Up Proc

- 4% Damage Bonus (Set Bonus)

 

 

This happens more often than you would think. Especially on sets with Build Up where you can control getting 2 stacks of Build Up. Pretty often I'll use Build Up before running into a group of enemies and then immediately get another Build Up proc from Gloom. 

Edited December 23, 2022 by Ston

[JayboH]

On 12/23/2022 at 12:43 PM, Ston said:

To expand on my last reply... Here's how Claws compares on Tankers vs Brutes with about as much damage bonus as you can give yourself without outside buffs or long recharge powers (e.g. Adrenal Booster, Call To Justice).

 

Power:  Focus 

 

Active Effects:

- Hybrid Assault Radial (Passive)

- Follow Up (2 Stacks)

- Assault (Leadership)

- Gaussian's Build Up Proc

- Decimation Build Up Proc

- 4% Damage Bonus (Set Bonus)

 

 

This happens more often than you would think. Especially on sets with Build Up where you can control getting 2 stacks of Build Up. Pretty often I'll use Build Up before running into a group of enemies and then immediately get another Build Up proc from Gloom. 

Why is there a proc difference

[Ston]

5 hours ago, JayboH said:

Why is there a proc difference

 

The difference is just in the number of procs to get the most damage while also getting enough accuracy. 

 

For tankers & scrappers, it’s more optimal to slot damage bonus up to the ED cap and then fill the rest with procs. My slotting is normally 2 acc/dam + 4 procs. And the. Musculature is used to get more damage.

 

Since brutes have lower base damage, they benefit more from 5-6 procs. But to maintain this, they need more accuracy via Vigor or Nerve. So my slotting typically ends up being 1 acc/dam + 5 procs. 

 

All the decisions are made to try to maximize damage based on the AT’s modifiers. The procs themselves are constant damage, so i ran those calculations to show how they compare with the same slotting.

Edited January 9, 2023 by Ston

[InvaderStych]

On 12/16/2022 at 9:14 PM, Troo said:

M.E.T.A. as I understand it is the Most Effective Tactic Available.

The meta may change based on a number of factors. It may be different at level 40 versus level 50 and again versus Incarnate levels.

 

All this time I thought it was just a bastardization of the literary definition of meta, or the data-related usage.  Information about the Information as it were.  So it was the game that was about the game. A thing that is about itself.  There's a great XKCD about Meta, but I've probably posted it before. 🤣

 

Never considered defining that with an acronym, but it is basically the same thing. 🤣

 

On 12/16/2022 at 9:14 PM, Troo said:

Some advanced number crunching can potentially reveal an optimal point where slotting below 100% damage in an individual power is more effective.

Here an example from @Ston makes sense:

• Musculature Core Paragon + (lvl 53 Acc/Dam HO x 2) + 4 procs
  • (2) Level 53 Acc/Dam HOs equals about 76% Acc/Dam
  • with more Acc/Dam and -end, +rech, etc potentially coming from other sources (other powers, other players, buffs, Incarnates, ect.)
  • and then the 4 procs on top of everything else

The next example from @Ston is simply broken and shows why procs will be addressed. Even 4 procs can seem extreme especially used on 16 targets.

• Vigor Core Paragon + (lvl 53 Acc/Dam HO x 1) + 5 procs
  • A level 53 Acc/Dam HOs equals 38.3% Acc/Dam
  • with most Acc/Dam and -end, +rech, etc coming from Incarnates and presumably buffs as well as other sources (other powers, other players, ect.)
  • and then 5 procs on top..

 

This bit is very interesting, and hopefully @Ston won't mind elaborating a bit.

 

Trying to justify something other than Musc Radial on a Fire/Stone/Blaze Stalker that could use the EndMod buff along with the extra damage.  Vigor Core is interesting for the not just the extreme accuracy, but also the EndRdx as well as the Heal/Absorb enhancing EE and Rooted.

 

So, if I am not using a ton of Procs (future-proofing, mostly) is Vigor still worth consideration? 

 

If not Vigor, other suggestions besides Musc Radial for Alpha on this combo?

[Erratic1]

5 minutes ago, InvaderStych said:

 

All this time I thought it was just a bastardization of the literary definition of meta, or the data-related usage.  Information about the Information as it were.  So it was the game that was about the game. A thing that is about itself.  There's a great XKCD about Meta, but I've probably posted it before. 🤣

 

 

You would be far more correct than the acronym. 

 

Metagaming - Wikipedia

[Ston]

22 hours ago, InvaderStych said:

 

All this time I thought it was just a bastardization of the literary definition of meta, or the data-related usage.  Information about the Information as it were.  So it was the game that was about the game. A thing that is about itself.  There's a great XKCD about Meta, but I've probably posted it before. 🤣

 

Never considered defining that with an acronym, but it is basically the same thing. 🤣

 

 

This bit is very interesting, and hopefully @Ston won't mind elaborating a bit.

 

Trying to justify something other than Musc Radial on a Fire/Stone/Blaze Stalker that could use the EndMod buff along with the extra damage.  Vigor Core is interesting for the not just the extreme accuracy, but also the EndRdx as well as the Heal/Absorb enhancing EE and Rooted.

 

So, if I am not using a ton of Procs (future-proofing, mostly) is Vigor still worth consideration? 

 

If not Vigor, other suggestions besides Musc Radial for Alpha on this combo?

 

If you care about damage, I would stick with Musc Radial.

 

From the table you can see that Defenders, Controllers, Masterminds, and Brutes have some of the lower base damage scales. This means that there's less reward for slotting damage on them vs. just using a damage proc. If accuracy weren't a concern, all ATs would do the most damage with 6 procs in each attack. But since you need to get as close to a 95% hit chance as you can, you gotta think about the tradeoffs for getting accuracy. You'd lose more damage by using Vigor on Stalkers, Blasters, etc. than you would on a Brute. You would need to get that +33% damage from somewhere else to make up for it (set bonuses, Assault, inspirations, etc).

 

[Marshal_General]

Maybe the key isn't nerfing procs, but putting a limit on how many can be in a non passive ability.

[dangeraaron10]

11 hours ago, Marshal_General said:

Maybe the key isn't nerfing procs, but putting a limit on how many can be in a non passive ability.

 

To be fair, that is heavily nerfing procs.  Most abilities that use them have 3 to 5 in a given power.

 

Either way, it's gonna be a wave of respecs.

 

Edit: I'm glad Fiery Melee got buffed but god I wish Breath of Fire got buffed like originally planned.  Breath attacks across the board need love, I love them for theme but they're almost always bad except for Mako patron breaths.

Edited January 31, 2023 by dangeraaron10

[tidge]

On 1/30/2023 at 8:02 AM, Marshal_General said:

Maybe the key isn't nerfing procs, but putting a limit on how many can be in a non passive ability.

 

I want to explain my "thumbs down": as shown by the damage scale (see the post by @Ston just above), removing %proc damage from low-damage-scale character ATs (Defenders, Controllers, 'pet-less' MMs) seriously hurts the ability of those classes from collecting XP on time scales commensurate with higher-damage-scale characters. The game is fundamentally geared towards doing DPS... that is how XP, Inf, and drops work! [*1]

 

The game is more fun for Controllers (for example) because they don't have to take 2x as much time as a Blaster to clear a "defeat all" map, even at low difficulty settings. If %damage was removed/limited from those classes, the difference would be even more pronounced at larger spawn size settings.

 

[*1] There is no circumstance I can imagine where it would make sense to use the inverse of the damage scales to dynamically alter per-AT how much XP/inf is awarded per defeat, so let's not be too quick to change %damage.