Your Ultimate Tanker

[One IV All]

What is, in your opinion, the ultimate Tanker in the game? The one that, when all the chips are down, is the last one standing? Even in incarnate/hard mode content.

 

A couple combos come to mind for me:

Shield/Martial Arts: Can hit incarnate defense levels. Decent AOE and also brings utility to the team. Ultimate team tanker. Secondary could also be Dark Melee, which brings a heal and -tohit, but loses out on defense.

 

Rad/SS Tanker: Proc city, and the more offensive choice. Still has a lot of defensive options and mitigation.

 

Invuln/Energy Melee: Could be Invuln/SS as well, but just thought I’d switch it up. Invuln is easy to build and so layered. Can stand up to most anything in the game.

 

I also hear Electric Armor is amazing endgame on either a Tanker or Brute, but I haven’t gotten one to high levels yet. Not sure what would pair best. Maybe Savage Melee or Street Justice?

 

How about you? What do you think is the top tanker combo?

[StriderIV]

Saw this posted on Reddit. I know there was a “Tank Gods” thread a while back where some of the OG’s @Hyperstrike @Infinitum @Linea @Warboss @Werner and @Sovera broke it down. 
 

Definitely a lot of good options, and you laid out a few. I have a Dark Armor/Staff myself that is low damage, but definitely survivable. Rad Armor/Dark Melee also seems like it’d be pretty unkillable, at least on paper. Haven’t leveled one myself.

Edited January 2, 2023 by StriderIV

[Spaghetti Betty]

I can only talk the about the Tanks on my roster, but these are my toughest:

 

Rad/SS - This has been my go-to Tank for Hard Mode ITFs. Hard-capped RES to most damage-types, great absorption, solid heal. Contributes a lot to team damage as it's completely proc'd out.

 

SR/Dark - I haven't had the opportunity to run this through Hard Mode yet, but in all other content, this toon just straight up ignores damage. It's HP just never moves, ever. I had to design AE content specifically to kill this Tank. 65% positional DEF and it's RES numbers aren't too shabby either.

 

Bio/Katana - This was my first truly unstoppable Tank. It's softcapped to E/NEG/F/C and can hit softcap to Melee. Regen numbers are insane. The Absorption barrier is just icing. I didn't realize how strong this toon was until I accidentally found myself tanking 5 +4 AVs during an AE mish.

[Hyperstrike]

Pretty much Invuln/Anything and Shield/Anything are solid foundations for a fully hybridized Def/Res tank.

Fire/Elec/Rad are great for Res-dominant builds.

I don't really play Dark a lot and don't care for Bio on a purely cosmetic basis.  So I'm unqualified to really deep-dive on either.

[One IV All]

24 minutes ago, Hyperstrike said:

Pretty much Invuln/Anything and Shield/Anything are solid foundations for a fully hybridized Def/Res tank.

Fire/Elec/Rad are great for Res-dominant builds.

I don't really play Dark a lot and don't care for Bio on a purely cosmetic basis.  So I'm unqualified to really deep-dive on either.

Yeah, Invuln and shield seem to be the best layered options.

 

On a good team pumping out the defense buffs, I could see the resist sets shining. Which is your favorite of the resist sets? I know Rad Armor gets a lot of love, but I’ve been seeing a lot of people hopping on the Electric Armor train lately. Maybe because of the endurance drain protection?

 

I know Fire Armor has changes recently. Not sure how that impacted it/made it better in anyway.

[Erratic1]

25 minutes ago, One IV All said:

Yeah, Invuln and shield seem to be the best layered options.

 

 

Layered?

[StriderIV]

11 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

 

Layered?

I think he means layered as in they offer both defense and resists.

[Gobbledigook]

It's hard to pick just one powerset combo as many of them are so good.

 

Of the resist sets i like Rad Armor the most. It has good resists to most types and brings extra offensive power for clearing.

 

Invuln and Shield are really good sets and probably rank near the top of the survival chain. SR is very good also with a good build and secondary combo.

 

My personal favorite would probably be Bio though. It takes some getting used to but it can be tanky and is the best offensive armor.

 

Super strength, Battle axe, Fire and Dark melee are good secondaries. SS being my favorite there. 

 

I would probably vote Bio/SS or invuln SS.

 

 

Edited January 2, 2023 by Gobbledegook

[Hyperstrike]

1 hour ago, One IV All said:

On a good team pumping out the defense buffs, I could see the resist sets shining.

Yep.  I have Elec, Fire and Rad Armor Tanks and Brutes.

They're absolute murder machines (yes, they kill you slowly, that just adds to the horror as their vengeance is INEVITABLE).

[Hyperstrike]

10 minutes ago, Gobbledegook said:

It's hard to pick just one powerset combo as many of them are so good.

 

This is why I pretty much stop at *Named Armor Type*/Anything.

[StriderIV]

34 minutes ago, Hyperstrike said:

Yep.  I have Elec, Fire and Rad Armor Tanks and Brutes.

They're absolute murder machines (yes, they kill you slowly, that just adds to the horror as their vengeance is INEVITABLE).

OP mentioned Fire Armor changes… do you feel they’ve been a net positive for Brutes/Tankers?

[One IV All]

34 minutes ago, Hyperstrike said:

This is why I pretty much stop at *Named Armor Type*/Anything.

 

35 minutes ago, Hyperstrike said:

Yep.  I have Elec, Fire and Rad Armor Tanks and Brutes.

They're absolute murder machines (yes, they kill you slowly, that just adds to the horror as their vengeance is INEVITABLE).

Fair enough! I just always heard Fire was a bit less Sturdy than the others. Electric seems to have the most tools and Rad seems more offensive minded.

 

Invuln and Shield seem like Ol’ Faithfuls 😂

[Hyperstrike]

2 hours ago, StriderIV said:

OP mentioned Fire Armor changes… do you feel they’ve been a net positive for Brutes/Tankers?

Haven't been able to play enough to pass judgement.

Have been VERY time-constrained for most of 2022.
(And NO, that does NOT make me a happy Tanker.)

[Hyperstrike]

Just now, Hyperstrike said:

Haven't been able to play enough to pass judgement.

Have been VERY time-constrained for most of 2022.
(And NO, that does NOT make me a happy Tanker.)

Basically, in terms of durability, Stone still is the Gold Standard in terms of "toughness" in the generic "you can't hurt me" sense.  All around Defense, Resist and Regen.

But there are sizeable compromises in terms of damage output.

In terms of maximum toughness and general balance, Invuln and Shield are the ACTUAL Gold Standard.  Maximizing toughness and damage output/utility.

[StriderIV]

9 minutes ago, Hyperstrike said:

Basically, in terms of durability, Stone still is the Gold Standard in terms of "toughness" in the generic "you can't hurt me" sense.  All around Defense, Resist and Regen.

But there are sizeable compromises in terms of damage output.

In terms of maximum toughness and general balance, Invuln and Shield are the ACTUAL Gold Standard.  Maximizing toughness and damage output/utility.

Would you say that nudges them past the pure resist sets? 

[biostem]

I have a bio/savage and rad/savage tanker, (same name, different servers) - both are excellent, but in different ways.  If I had to pick only 1, I'd probably go with the bio armor one, due to the flexibility of the offensive/defensive/efficient modes...

[Hyperstrike]

4 hours ago, StriderIV said:

Would you say that nudges them past the pure resist sets? 

Considering you can cap all your Resists (save Psi, and still be 40+% there) AND incarnate soft-cap your Defenses while maintaining an elaborate Heal/+HP + Regen cycle.  BEFORE Procs?

And that's BEFORE discussing DDR.

Edited January 3, 2023 by Hyperstrike

[StriderIV]

16 minutes ago, Hyperstrike said:

Considering you can cap all your Resists (save Psi, and still be 40+% there) AND incarnate soft-cap your Defenses while maintaining an elaborate Heal/+HP + Regen cycle.  BEFORE Procs?

And that's BEFORE discussing DDR.

This is specifically Invuln, correct? I know you probably can’t hit max resists on Shield, BUT you probably trade some sturdiness for a bit more offense (AAO, Shield Charge). You make great points Hyper 😂 I know you have a Mo Durable build floating around somewhere.

[Zect]

I'm going to say what I always say in these types of threads:

 

Define "best".

 

You've vaguely outlined "best" as a "turtle build" (i.e. mitigation only, discounting the value of offense and support), which is a start. However, a 4* HM TF and an incarnate trial are very different environments. The interaction with support sets and dependence on player skill also needs to be considered.

 

With that said: inv is always going to be a high contender in most environments as far as turtle power goes, not because it provides the highest theoretical performance, but because it is so hard to screw up. It's not a recharge dependent or click heavy set, it does not have difficult to patch holes (energy) or imbalanced mitigation profiles (such as depending on res against some damtypes and def against others). Its near-cap HP, wide spread of debuff resistances and high mitigations provide a strong foundation on which to layer more defenses and amplify the value of sustains. And its weaknesses, being comparatively low sustain and a very mild psi hole, offer many options to patch them up.

 

Inv is not a skill dependent set to build or play, which is its own very underrated strength. Of far more value than a measly 25% DDR is inv's capped resistance to the Player Stupidity debuff.

[One IV All]

5 hours ago, Hyperstrike said:

Basically, in terms of durability, Stone still is the Gold Standard in terms of "toughness" in the generic "you can't hurt me" sense.  All around Defense, Resist and Regen.

But there are sizeable compromises in terms of damage output.

In terms of maximum toughness and general balance, Invuln and Shield are the ACTUAL Gold Standard.  Maximizing toughness and damage output/utility.

Seems like Invuln/Shield might be the way to go for pure unkillable Tank in HM content (outside of granite for Stone).

[One IV All]

4 minutes ago, Zect said:

I'm going to say what I always say in these types of threads:

 

Define "best".

 

You've vaguely outlined "best" as a "turtle build" (i.e. mitigation only, discounting the value of offense and support), which is a start. However, a 4* HM TF and an incarnate trial are very different environments. The interaction with support sets and dependence on player skill also needs to be considered.

 

With that said: inv is always going to be a high contender in most environments as far as turtle power goes, not because it provides the highest theoretical performance, but because it is so hard to screw up. It's not a recharge dependent or click heavy set, it does not have difficult to patch holes (energy) or imbalanced mitigation profiles (such as depending on res against some damtypes and def against others). Its near-cap HP, wide spread of debuff resistances and high mitigations provide a strong foundation on which to layer more defenses and amplify the value of sustains. And its weaknesses, being comparatively low sustain and a very mild psi hole, offer many options to patch them up.

 

Inv is not a skill dependent set to build or play, which is its own very underrated strength. Of far more value than a measly 25% DDR is inv's capped resistance to the Player Stupidity debuff.

Great points, and I appreciate the insights. I wouldn't consider myself a very mechanically gifted player in any sense, or a master builder. I guess that is why some sets that are easier to build (Invuln, Shield, Elec) might suit me better. Haha probably the same reason it's nice to me to take a secondary with a tight attack chain thank I can't screw up 😂

 

It is always interesting to hear though how some sets might really come into their own if piloted by a good driver.

Edited January 3, 2023 by One IV All

[Zect]

56 minutes ago, One IV All said:

Great points, and I appreciate the insights. I wouldn't consider myself a very mechanically gifted player in any sense, or a master builder. I guess that is why some sets that are easier to build (Invuln, Shield, Elec) might suit me better. Haha probably the same reason it's nice to me to take a secondary with a tight attack chain thank I can't screw up 😂

 

It is always interesting to hear though how some sets might really come into their own if piloted by a good driver.

 

Your attitude is extremely admirable. I need to emphasize there is zero shame in admitting one is not particularly skilled at build design or play. On the contrary, one who knows one's limitations shows wisdom which is a far rarer and more precious trait than mere skill or knowledge.

 

With that said...

 

If you want to stretch your toes a little, try rad armor. It is currently extremely strong in the 4* HM ITF meta (which, FYI, is a tank, a kin, 3 or so colds, and half a dozen barrier cores). It has lower defense than Inv, which matters less in such a def-abundant environment, but more sustain with particle shield. High-end rad armor tanks easily cap all resists except cold/psi, particle shield every 30ish seconds for gigantic amounts of absorb, and have 90-100% slow resistance. They easily shrug off the colossi's -recovery/rom's -recharge. Building and playing rad armor also teaches valuable lessons in how to construct res/rech builds as a contrast to turtle builds. An option for those who want something different. A rad armor with a parry 2ndary that stacks double -res procs on AV's and can i-cap its own def in melee is simply the chef's kiss.

Edited January 3, 2023 by Zect

[Hyperstrike]

59 minutes ago, One IV All said:

Seems like Invuln/Shield might be the way to go for pure unkillable Tank in HM content (outside of granite for Stone).

Outside of a few corner cases (like trying to solo 4-star content)?  Yeah.  I can vouch for that.
If you're trying to do 4-star content, realistically, your safest bet is ALWAYS going to be "teaming"
If there's other options, you'll have to talk to others.  I really don't have the lifestyle bandwidth right now to explore various "gimmick" builds.

[Hyperstrike]

1 hour ago, StriderIV said:

This is specifically Invuln, correct? I know you probably can’t hit max resists on Shield, BUT you probably trade some sturdiness for a bit more offense (AAO, Shield Charge). You make great points Hyper 😂 I know you have a Mo Durable build floating around somewhere.

I could PROBABLY cap several of the Resists.

But it'd likely compromise the build elsewhere.

Here's just a "Just trying to max Def/Res" without really trying.

https://www.midsreborn.com/builds/download.php?uc=1559&c=650&a=1300&f=HEX&dc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

[Hyperstrike]

1 hour ago, One IV All said:

Great points, and I appreciate the insights. I wouldn't consider myself a very mechanically gifted player in any sense, or a master builder. I guess that is why some sets that are easier to build (Invuln, Shield, Elec) might suit me better. Haha probably the same reason it's nice to me to take a secondary with a tight attack chain thank I can't screw up 😂

 

It is always interesting to hear though how some sets might really come into their own if piloted by a good driver.

To be honest, one of the reasons I'm squeezed as much out of things like Shield and Invuln is that I'm generally a lazy player.
My manual dexterity and fine motor control SUCK DISEASED MOOSE WANG.
And my "skill" at playing never really grew beyond "I can Tank it!"

I mean, how pathetic is it that I've Tanked a Fire/Fire/Pyre blaster on an STF/MLTF?
And you know what's REALLY pathetic?

I ACTUALLY MANAGED IT!

Proof that God occasionally smiles on fools and other children.