Too much Acc?

[ForeverLaxx]

2 hours ago, Troo said:

Thanks @ForeverLaxx. How much Acc do you shoot for in individual?

 

This is more an exercise in "Do I shoot for too much Acc" with some explanation and discussion.

Whatever gets my tohit chances to around 95 or slightly more to account for buffs/debuffs, based on the value on an adjusted Mids. Honestly, the "too much/not enough" accuracy debate comes down to what you're fighting, at what level, and how many misses you find acceptable for your personal playstyle. I'm not trying to speedrun anything, but I don't like missing so I build to offset that as much as possible without impacting other factors important to the overall build.

 

If you don't mind missing 2 or 3 times in a row, you'll be able to handle lower accuracy thresholds better unless those misses result in you getting defeated I suppose.

[ZemX]

Seriously, I almost never worry about acc, since ToHit is so much more important and also because you get decent acc both in IO sets slotted in a power and by chance slotting for other things.

 

@tidge mentioned the one case where I probably actually think about it at all and that's a heavily procc'd attack power.  Since I'm not slotting a full or near full set there, I can't just assume I'll have good acc enhancement.  I often go with a 2-slot Winter that gives me good acc/dmg or acc/rech (whatever the power needs more) because the 2-slot bonus gives me some slow resist in the bargain.  Then dmg proc the rest.

[Ukase]

7 hours ago, ZemX said:

It always applies.  It's just that the number of misses StreakBreaker allows before forcing a hit depends on your final chance to hit that enemy.  If you missed 7 times then your chance to hit that drone was less than 30%.

I should have been more precise in my wording. I've never truly "missed" 7x in a row. It would be like 2 misses, and 5 "deflected". 

[ZemX]

25 minutes ago, Ukase said:

I should have been more precise in my wording. I've never truly "missed" 7x in a row. It would be like 2 misses, and 5 "deflected". 

 

I don't follow.  There's no "nifty rule" about missing three times.  Unless you're making a joke here I'm.... missing.

[Doomguide2005]

1 hour ago, Ukase said:

I should have been more precise in my wording. I've never truly "missed" 7x in a row. It would be like 2 misses, and 5 "deflected". 

     No idea exactly how it determines what flavor of float text is displayed but afaik that is 7 'rolls' in a row that did not connect regardless if miss, eluded, dodged, deflected, etc. float up after failing to hit.  On the otherhand assuming it's a +4 drone and not an AoE attack it's not hard to imagine being sub 30 if there's no to hit buffs and only accuracy involved on the part of the character as it would floor your to hit chances.  Base to hit vs +4's is 39%.  If their defense is 35 that leaves you sitting at the floor before accuracy is accounted for.  The inner clamp will actually come into effect bumping your 4% chance to a 5% (39 - 35 = 4 clamped to 5).  At that point assuming the base accuracy of the power is 1.0 you need about another 500% accuracy to get to a 30% final hit chance ... and that is a LOT of accuracy if the math in my head is correct.  Even just Kismet is barely helping (you be at 10% prior to accuracy calculations and need another 200% accuracy to hit 30%.  But notice how the 'mere' +6% to hit buff of Kismet has effected the necessary accuracy to hit that 30% mark.  

Edited January 17, 2023 by Doomguide2005
Math and typing is hard

[Shred Monkey]

On 1/15/2023 at 12:27 PM, Troo said:

Take for example

[*] HamiO:Nucleolus Exposure
[*] HamiO:Nucleolus Exposure
[*] Perfect Zinger - Chance for Psi Damage
[*] Eradication - Chance for Energy Damage
[*] Armageddon - Chance for Fire Damage
[*] Fury of the Gladiator - Chance for Res Debuff

 

With a global [*] Kismet - Accuracy +6% & Tactics' ToHit +10%

We land at, for Whirling Hands, accuracy of 151.6%. With other misc bonuses 184.4%.  Is that overkill and simply wasted Acc?

 

Could alternately go which eeks out a smidge more average damage.

Here, for the same build, we land at Whirling Hands accuracy being 121.3%. With other misc bonuses 152.2%. Is this enough for +4 content?

 

 

@Bopper NUmB3rs h3rtz br41nZ

 

Are you fighting 54s solo?  If so, I wouldn't drop the 2nd HamiO.  You can Monitor last hit chance to quickly see actually hit chance in game.  High accuracy is pretty key to being able to solo quickly and efficiently against many end game enemy groups.  But if you're picky with your enemy groups to pick ones who don't do any -tohit debuffs or +defense buffs, or if you fight against something lower than 54s, then you can get away with less.

 

[Troo]

Update: monitoring Hit Chance has been a big help. While it doesn't alleviate the frustration with repeated high accuracy misses, it does take some of the mystery out of it.

 

I think I do have a bit too much accuracy nearly across the board but it's not enough to really make any big change or even save a slot.

 

Edited January 22, 2023 by Troo

[Snarky]

1 hour ago, Troo said:

Update: monitoring Hit Chance has been a big help. While it doesn't alleviate the frustration with repeated high accuracy misses, it does take some of the mystery out of it.

 

I think I do have a bit too much accuracy nearly across the board but it's not enough to really make any big change or even save a slot.

 

i always monitor my to hit, acc, dam, and stealth.  on heavies i monitor my major def/res as well

[roleki]

On 1/15/2023 at 10:42 AM, Yomo Kimyata said:

Lately, I've been looking more at epic pool choices just for the -to hit debuff resistance, like Focused Accuracy and just slot them with endurance reduction.

 

While the VPP or whatever are more fun, if it's available I always go for Focused Accuracy.  While the global ToHit and Accuracy bonuses are nice, that 69% -ToHit resistance is phenomenal when it's needed.

 

I figure it this way... even against some bullshit, you're going to get a -ToHit or -Acc debuff along the way, so I don't do the math to end up at 95% in dry weather, I want to end up over 95% AND be resistant to debuffs.  Hence Focused Accuracy.

 

Put it this way, say I have a Spines Scrapper with a full set of Superior Critical Strikes in Ripper.  Ripper has a base Accuracy of 1.0, and after ED, a full set of SCS gives it a 1.815 enhanced Accuracy (1.0 base Accuracy plus .815 Enhanced Accuracy).

 

If I pull up to a +4 critter,  I have a 39% ToHit chance.  1.815 X. 39 = .707, so, I have just over a 70% chance of hitting that critter.

 

But I also have a global Accuracy bonus of .57, so my REAL Accuracy in Ripper is 2.385, so my HitChance is actually 2.385 X. 39, or, a shade over 93%.

 

But I also have a Kismet, which gives me a +6 ToHit, so the calculation is actually 2.385 X. 45, or, slightly over 107% HitChance.

 

But I also have Focused Accuracy, which gives another .20 Global Accuracy and +5 ToHit.  The calculation is now 2.585 X. 49 giving me a HitChance of a little under 127%.

 

But say I get hit with a single 7% ToHit debuff for 6s.

 

During that 6s, these are my hit chances:

 

Naked Ripper: 32% (1.0 X. 32) for 6s

Ripper with just SCS: 58% (1.815 x .32) for 6s

Ripper with SCS and global Acc: 76% (2.385 x .32) for 6s

Ripper with SCS, global Acc, and Kismet: 90% (2.385 x .38) for 6s

Ripper with SCS, global Acc, Kismet and FA: 1.11% (2.585 x .43) for 3s (due to the 69% ToHit resistance affecting duration of the debuff).

 

Point being, even just doing Radios, you're going to run into Council and Arachnos, and you're probably going to get hit with more -ToHit than a single -7.  While checking this out a moment ago to see it in numbers, it wasn't uncommon to be saddled with -18 ToHit when in melee on a 4/8.

 

In that instance, the hit chances would be as follows:

 

Naked Ripper: 14%

Ripper with just SCS: 25%

Ripper with SCS and global Acc: 33%

Ripper with SCS, global Acc, and Kismet: 47%

Ripper with SCS, global Acc, Kismet and FA:  65%

 

Shorter answer, I don't think there's any such thing as too much Acc/ToHit, unless you're parked.

[Sabrehawk]

I suppose it depends on what you are building for. In my case I build for as much global accuracy, local accuracy, tohit and tohit debuff resistance as I can fit in while meeting my other build goals. This means Tactics, Focus Accuracy or Targeting Drone and Kismet. On top of this I try to stack +15% global accuracy enhancements from purples. Debuffs have been covered well above. However, some enemies also have a defense T9. Commonly Elude. The NPC version of Elude won't provide as much defense as player Elude. I think it's base defense bonus is slightly lower. In addition, it isn't supercharged by enhancements. Tohit debuff, elude, stacked Cim defense buffs and so on can lead to misses. Misses lower DPS. Lower DPS increases time to kill, increasing the amount of debuffs (further tohit, -defense, -resist or -end) that you are subjected to. Depending on the matchup (some armor sets suffer against specific enemy groups) lower DPS can be fatal.

 

Another element to consider is your primary. Some attacks have defense debuff combined with buildup. On katana buildup (especially procced with Gaussians) can punch through some defense debuffs or enemy defense. You lay on the defense debuffs from katana during your window using attacks appropriate to the situation (AoE if fighting a large group, ST if trying to kill a lone tough/important enemy). Musculature is handy here as it increases the strength of your defense debuff. It can be layered with Paralytic Destiny which has a chance to apply a defense debuff of it's own. (When soloing hard content it can be helpful to craft a number of Incarnates to address enemy specific challenges.)

 

It is important to note, however, that defense debuffs are only helpful if you can hit the target to apply the debuff in the first place. On sets without buildup (such as dual blades and claws) I have found Vigor to be useful in some situations. It offers a +45% local accuracy bonus to all your attacks. This is important because blinding feint and follow up must hit the target to apply their +10% tohit bonus. If you can consistently double stack this bonus you will effectively operate with an additional +20% tohit on top of what you already have. For example, a DB build I am testing has an almost perma +42.5% tohit. 

 

A number of procs may be of interest. The chance for buildup procs (Gaussian's and Decimation) are well known. There are also the Analyze Weakness and Siphon Insight procs. Each are 2PPM and provide +20% tohit for ten seconds. Most attacks in katana can slot Analyze Weakness so in theory you could maintain a near perma uptime. I assume the same is true of broadsword.

 

Lastly, though it has been touched on above, attacks have their own inherent accuracy. The mechanics behind this are better answered by those more knowledgeable than I. But it is has been my experience that a 1.2 base accuracy attack is a game changer. Not all sets have an attack with 1.2 base accuracy. Energy Melee has two on scrapper; Total Focus and Energy Transfer. StJ has Crushing Uppercut and Psi has Greater Psy Blade. In my experience these punch through defense T9's quite well. Especially if preceded by buildup (doubly so if buildup is procced with Gaussian's). There are other sets with 1.2 base accuracy attacks whose names escape me at the moment.

 

Of special note is Stalker. Every Assassins Strike/Stab/Slash/Slaughter/Scalp/Shiv/Shank/Slice/Slap has 1.2 base accuracy. Even in quick mode. This means an EM/ stalker could have three attacks with 1.2 base accuracy. 

Also worth mentioning is snipes. Slow snipes on scrapper have 1.2 base accuracy with the exception of the Mace snipe which has 1.25. Fast snipes, however, have 1.0 base accuracy once again with the exception of Mace snipe which has 1.05. In my experience the .2 makes a lot of difference but the .05 is imperceptible. 

 

I hope this is helpful.