Tier 3, Epic and Patron pools: removal of prerequisite power choices

[Rudra]

15 minutes ago, Nayeh said:

Some of y'all are really passionate about powers that don't even get enhanced or placed on the power tray.

Just because you don't doesn't mean no one does. Here are three comments immediately preceding yours where players say they are using either Boxing or Kick. (In this case, Kick.)

 

 

1 hour ago, Greycat said:

I'll often take Kick just because of where it lands due to character size.

 

Don't need to slot for amusement.

 

1 hour ago, dangeraaron10 said:

That's why I opt for Kick over Boxing.  Sometimes you think that Hellion isn't worth your fireball and just gets your boot in their face while they go flying.

 

1 hour ago, JasperStone said:

I love it on my tall characters.

Big kick to the chest or face depending ...

 

 

Your argument fails. And is mind boggling in that it is a response after comments that prove your comment fails.

 

Edit: Oh, and for clarification? I actually have two characters that have Kick on their power tray for use in combat as well. And they are even slotted with enhancements. *gasp* Also, there are players that slot their Boxing or Kick powers with enhancements for the set bonuses even if they don't actually use the powers themselves.

Edited February 1, 2023 by Rudra

[Nayeh]

Ew, Trolls.

[Rudra]

Because anyone that disagrees with you, let alone does something in a game you don't, is obviously a troll.

Edited February 1, 2023 by Rudra
Edited for spelling.

[biostem]

39 minutes ago, Nayeh said:

Some of y'all are really passionate about powers that don't even get enhanced or placed on the power tray.

Nah, it's called game balance and thought/investment in builds, but feel free to keep the salt mine going...

[twozerofoxtrot]

This suggestion has been taken up by other servers.

 

I'm sure they'd be glad to have the extra player or two.

[dangeraaron10]

1 hour ago, Nayeh said:

Some of y'all are really passionate about powers that don't even get enhanced or placed on the power tray.

 

Eeeehhh

 

Less passionate about Kick and just trying to make lemonade out of a lemon.  Most often yeah I write it off and it's just kinda there.  Always fun to kick Hellions, though!

 

But you're kind of missing the point.  If no power had a prerequisite power, then people would just load up with all the best powers.  

 

By breaking that dichotomy, then you'll find some builds get unintentionally stronger, even if it's just a bit.

 

Look, if I wake up tomorrow and there's a patch that lets you pick Tough without any prereqs and Weave only needed Tough, I would be just fine.  I'll gladly take the extra "fun" power elsewhere.  But I acknowledge a non negligable number of people who feel building characters is enhanced by having a sense of investment and choice rather than having your primary, secondary, and all the same meta powers in every build with no filler.

[Nayeh]

2 hours ago, Rudra said:

I actually have two characters that have Kick on their power tray for use in combat as well. And they are even slotted with enhancements. *gasp*

Is this what your tray looks like?

[Rudra]

Nope. This is my Blaster:

 

 

 

[Greycat]

17 hours ago, Nayeh said:

Some of y'all are really passionate about powers that don't even get enhanced or placed on the power tray.

 

Funny thing, not everyone plays the exact same way. YOU may not enhance or place them. Someone else does. YOU may find certain powers (say, Hasten, Tough, etc) vital. Others may rarely if ever take them and find them extremely skippable.

[Saiyajinzoningen]

On 1/31/2023 at 10:05 PM, Nayeh said:

Some of y'all are really passionate about powers that don't even get enhanced or placed on the power tray.

i think thats kinda the point. If the power was better somehow it might get enhanced or placed

[Galaxy Brain]

I wanted to dig a little deeper on this, so I looked into how the pool powers perform on a Defender in terms of rounding out attacks:

 

 

The above are all the pool attacks that dont need to be unlocked, except for cross punch for comparison. Brawl is also included as fighting pool adds to it, as are t1/t2 from elec and seismic. All values are unenhanced, and taken from CoD.

 

Sorted by DPA as seen above, Arcane Bolt takes the cake when boosted, but even without Arcane Power it is above the rest except for Toxic Dart which trades secondary effects for raw output it seems, making it almost comprable to a T1/2 blast on the AT.

 

After that, even on a ranged AT we see that Boxing and Cross punch offer more bang for your buck than the other non-origin pool attacks even without synergy bonuses. Boxing + Kick specifically get some nice goodies where Boxing gets a 35% chance of Mag 3 stun on a power with around a 1s animation and 2.5s base recharge which can stack to lock down even bosses briefly with itself or other stun powers. Kick likewise goes from 15% to 40% chance to knock back, though even with the synergies it is worse dpa than all but Brawl and Flurry.

 

The other pool attacks are different shades of "meh" comparatively with Flurry being awful. Of note, Air Superiority is the only one of the bunch to have a 100% chance of Knock which makes it a stand out utility tool even with "meh" DPA. Jump Kick has the same Damage, Activation, and even recharges in 2.8s vs 4 for AS (costs a little less end to boot), but it instead has a 20% chance to inflict mag 4.15 knock up compared to 100% chance to inflict mag 0.8 knockup on AS. This roughly evens out over time, but for the effect I think we'd all rather it be consistent.

 

So what does this all mean? In my opinion, powers should all be fun to use as well as "worth" their slot. Comparing the available picks together we have some clear winners in terms of added damage potential and utilities, as well as ones that are clearly... not as good. For fighting pool specifically, it seems that Boxing + Cross has a clear edge on Kick + Cross with Boxing just being better than kick as an attack. The weirdness comes from needing boxing + kick to unlock the synergies for both, where either Box or Kick being owned improves Cross Punch in the same way. Kick is a fun power, but Air Superiority is better as a control AND damage option even with all 3 fighting powers boosting Kick up. That is where it becomes kind of iffy where its a mule that has to be taken to make the other powers better moreso than being great on its own.

[Wavicle]

Maybe alter the way Fighting Synergy works, so that Kick and Boxing get buffed by each additional Fighting pool power you have, including Tough and Weave? I don't know if that really solves the problem, but it might help.

[Rudra]

11 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

Maybe alter the way Fighting Synergy works, so that Kick and Boxing get buffed by each additional Fighting pool power you have, including Tough and Weave? I don't know if that really solves the problem, but it might help.

I would actually be fine with that. Except then the other pool attacks will have players calling for them to be buffed too. Then it becomes a power pool attack buff race.

[Wavicle]

1 minute ago, Rudra said:

I would actually be fine with that. Except then the other pool attacks will have players calling for them to be buffed too. Then it becomes a power pool attack buff race.

 

Well, most of the other pool attacks SHOULD be buffed. It's not a pool attack buff race, because the standard for comparison is Primary attacks, not each other. Arcane Bolt and Toxic Dart are fine as is. The others should be brought up to that level and then leave it there.