Lore: Where are the signature characters in the game at Page 6?

[Scarlet Shocker]

 

WARNING: POTENTIAL SPOILERS - read at your own risk

 

So I'm kind of confused - I've never been one to delve deep into the Lore but I lose track of who is who and where they all are in game at the present time.

 

I'm talking in particular of the Freedom Phalanx, Arachnos and of course those who remain of the leadership of Praetoria, but I'm also including others such as Reichsman & Hero 1 etc.

 

I know Statesman, Sister Psyche and Raymond Keyes are all dead. I'm presuming Emperor Cole is dead, having nuked his own city - but I'm confused about the others. I believe that Stephan Richter, Lord Recluse is alive and well proving in a game about heroes that crime actually does pay - and that Positron is one of the biggest signature dicks in game and still hale and hearty unfortunately.

 

Please no smartarse comments about Ghost Widow being dead! 🤣 Obviously we know she is, and has been for a considerable time but I am uncertain of her current whereabouts - as I am with Scirocco - but I've got it in mind that he's still alive in some kind of limbo twixt good and evil but his sidekick/protege (who is so unmemorable as to be entirely forgettable, is it silver mantis?) got swallowed by Mot in an uncharacteristically stupid act of contrite bravado.

 

But I am largely confused as to the status of most of the other signature characters. In part because there are so many loose ends in this game due to a policy of chasing the newest shiny rather than following stories to completion but also because we rarely ever play the game sequentially these days so it becomes a jumbled mess in my own mind as I run through another Tina Mac arc or Unai Kemen.

 

So who's alive, who's dead, and perhaps even more importantly, who's at liberty [sic] and who is incarcerated? If Hero 1 is alive why does he have a tomb? What about War Witch who seems to be alive and dead simultaneously?

 

It's a mess and I'd love to understand better what's going on in our beloved city.

 

 

[Scarlet Shocker]

One final question: Why hasn't Praetor Duncan been gainfully employed at Drenched Donuts in Faultline? She might go for a takeover bid 🤑

 

/em getcoat

[JodisWelch]

Primal Signature characters are all pretty much alive other than Statesman and Sister Psyche

 

Reichsman is still alive but de-powered to the point that he now is second to Requiem in the 5th Column (Seen in one of Max's missions in Dark Astoria).

 

Interesting thing of note is that while it hasn't been followed up in HC or other servers I have seen but in one of the planned updates in Live, Scirocco and Ice Mistral would have defected to Paragon following the events of Dark Astoria with a "Play as Scirocco" mission to help flesh that event out. Mu Vorkan or someone else would have taken Scirocco's place as Patron.

 

Praetorian's are on the other hand quite decimated, least from those loyal to Tyrant. Chimera died in Magi trail, I think Black Swan did as well. Huntsman likely dead after defeating him in Number Six arc if not by player hands, then by Praetorian Hamidon who owns the place now. Diabolique is killed in her iTrial as is Mother Mayhem and Praetorian Malaise (So that's both versions dead since Primal bit the dust in Who Will Die) and yes Anti Matter gave his life in an attempt to hurt Hamidon during the evacuation in Number Six arc.

 

Some are still alive, there is the arc from Provost Marchand Blue side forming The New Praetorians that features Marauder, Pendragon, Riptide and Aurora Pena. There is a Red Side equivalent arc that I know Bobcat joins but can't remember who else is involved in that.

 

Tyrant is still alive but in a deep prison somewhere. Plan was he was going to get his powers back and become Statesman on Primal Earth to give people hope again during the war with The Battalion (Coming Storm). This was somewhat referenced in Statesman preview in NCSoft's failed League of Legends type game. So yeah, a genocider on planetary scale can be forgiven it seems! 🤦‍♂️

Edited April 16, 2023 by JodisWelch

[tidge]

The two "signature" characters that confuse me the most are Positron and Lord Recluse. My general dislike for the 'evolving lore' is that comic book universes work best when there is practically zero evolution of the universe. Call it crossover (or 'reboot') fatigue, but I enjoy simple things best when they aren't made needlessly complicated. The appeal of CoH for me was that I could start any new character and take them through a world on paths pretty much of my choosing. I don't want to play someone else's story.

 

Frankly: I haven't like Positron (NPC) since the days when he could choose to stop wearing his armor. For me, this was the first evidence that the game wasn't going to let new characters onto a static canvas, and that story content was going to shift underneath us. Squeezing Positron into the Incarnate system feels like such a joke, especially since he was literally the first TF contact a hero could make. I take every chance I can to punk him red side. I feel that the Praetorian version explains a lot about what I don't like about Positon.

 

I have zero animosity towards Lord Recluse... it's more like I have to make up a lot of 'head canon' to rationalize his actions and relationships across all his appearances. Of all the NPCs in the game, I choose to believe that Lord Recluse is literally the only character who realizes he is in a game, and that all his actions are to keep the game viable for all the players.

[Skyhawke]

48 minutes ago, tidge said:

 I choose to believe that Lord Recluse is literally the only character who realizes he is in a game, and that all his actions are to keep the game viable for all the players.

 

 

[El D]

3 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

 

So who's alive, who's dead, and perhaps even more importantly, who's at liberty [sic] and who is incarcerated? If Hero 1 is alive why does he have a tomb? What about War Witch who seems to be alive and dead simultaneously?

 

 

Hero 1's 'tomb' is actually a time capsule commemorating the entire Omega Team from the Rikti War that occurred in 2002 (it just happens to use his cape symbol because A) he was the leader and B) the live devs already had that Union Jack texture made, so why make a new asset?). Lorewise, he was declared dead due to events that happened before the game even launched, since he led the Omega Team in a sneak assault on the Rikti portal base, got sent to the Rikti homeworld, and was presumed lost. Primal Earth didn't actually know if he was dead or not, but in classic superhero comicbook fashion 'You get lost on another world and the only route back explodes'... you get presumed dead. Wasn't until the Lady Grey Task Force that he shows up again as The Honoree, revealing that he wasn't ever dead he just got Rikti'fied. As of shutdown, Vanguard was still working on a way to restore him to his old self (and given his status as an empowered Incarnate, that could make for a fun continuation of other storylines too).

 

War Witch's story is a bit more complicated, given that she existed solely in the Blue King Studios comics run along with Apex and Horus (which are great and deserve a read) before being put in-game years later. Her status as a ghost in Croatoa is a direct result of that run - War Witch dies fighting Requiem, but due to her mystical magical powers, manifests as a spirit to continue mentoring new heroes. Then, many issues later with the progression of the Praetorian arcs in Night Ward, the Praetorian version of War Witch shows up - Sorceress Serene. She was taken in by the Furies and works against Tyrant due to backstory drama with Diabolique. It gets revealed that she's also been secretly working against the Furies and wants to steal the the power of their goddess (Lamashtu) for herself, but our ghostly version of War Witch finishes the ritual Serene is using to do that first. As a result, the Primal Earth ghost ends up possessing her evil Praetorian version's body. Shutdown happened soon after that, so we never got an official follow-up or reunion between her and Ajax where they go to kick Requiem's ass, but lots of folks are still holding out hope.

 

As for the War Witch in Pocket D, she's an alternate dimension version that never died and is pretty much there as a cameo reflection of the 'interdimensional club with portals to everywhere' gimmick of the zone (and the fact that the live devs made a model for her, but had to slap a ghost filter on it for Croatoa so 'Why not use the 'real' one somewhere?').

Edited April 16, 2023 by El D

[Xiddo]

I still wish Horus, of the War Witch and Apex trio, appeared in game. Or did he die in the comics? Been a few years since I’ve read em tbh.

 

In one of the Mender arcs don’t we meet the Rikti-Hero 1-but-doing-a-bit-better?

 

I always assumed the next story would be that Scirocco (spelling?) and Manticore would swap, and we’d finally lose that arrow-nerd to the dark side cos he’s livid about Psyche getting dragged down under.

 

The whole Pandora’s box arc complicates things a bit… there’s a harpy with magic powers and the trolls are stronger? And now the zig is useless? Also nemesis makes a giant monster? It’s all a bit wild and I get the impression the OG devs just threw loads of stuff at the wall.

[Clave Dark 5]

No one knows what's up with Lord Recluse these days, he's... reclusive.  🙂 

[Coyotedancer]

26 minutes ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

No one knows what's up with Lord Recluse these days, he's... reclusive.  🙂 

 

I like to think he just went on quiet vacation with Red Widow... They've got so me catching up to do, after all.

[Techwright]

3 hours ago, tidge said:

 My general dislike for the 'evolving lore' is that comic book universes work best when there is practically zero evolution of the universe.

 

I've wondered if a game like this could benefit from "seasons" like I've heard Fortnight does (I don't play it).  In context here, the curtain closes on one season, like the "Who Will Die?" story, then reopens on a point a short time later with advancements, such as Penny Yin replacing Sister Psyche.  That way, we don't have residuals conflicting with progressive points.  For the duration of the "season" the situation remains static.

[lemming]

5 hours ago, JodisWelch said:

Interesting thing of note is that while it hasn't been followed up in HC or other servers I have seen but in one of the planned updates in Live, Scirocco and Ice Mistral would have defected to Paragon following the events of Dark Astoria with a "Play as Scirocco" mission to help flesh that event out. Mu Vorkan or someone else would have taken Scirocco's place as Patron.

 

Praetorian's are on the other hand quite decimated, least from those loyal to Tyrant. Chimera died in Magi trail

It would be nice to continue the Scirocco & Ice Mistral arc.

 

Chimera's body is in the First Primal Mr G arc.   There's more about Scirocco being discussed in that one, but just conversation from the arachnos you're beating up.

 

The Mr G and Marchand arcs do setup some of the post Praetorian activity.   Reminds me to see if there's anything extra if you do Mr G's arc, then the issue six John Huston arc.  (Which seems to be made to continue some of the story)

[FupDup]

Battle Maiden got recruited by Malta after the events of Dark Astoria...I'm really interested in seeing what Malta would look like after that kind of partnership. 

[Skyhawke]

3 hours ago, Xiddo said:

I still wish Horus, of the War Witch and Apex trio, appeared in game. Or did he die in the comics? Been a few years since I’ve read em tbh.

 

 

 

From the Horus wiki page: "In the final battle with the 5th Column and Requiem, Horus and War Witch did not survive. War Witch's final act was to bring the Kheldian within Horus' body as well as the survivor Apex into the covenspace for the last time. There was nothing left of Horus - only the Kheldian remained, who left on a new mission to awaken the other sleeping Kheldians, but not before leaving Apex with a promise that they would some day meet again. "

 

I'd love to see the Kheldian "Horus" return. He'd make a great Paul Revere to come rolling in saying "The Battlion are coming, the Batallion are coming!" as the way to kick off getting the Coming Storm going.

[Techwright]

11 hours ago, Skyhawke said:

 

From the Horus wiki page: "In the final battle with the 5th Column and Requiem, Horus and War Witch did not survive. War Witch's final act was to bring the Kheldian within Horus' body as well as the survivor Apex into the covenspace for the last time. There was nothing left of Horus - only the Kheldian remained, who left on a new mission to awaken the other sleeping Kheldians, but not before leaving Apex with a promise that they would some day meet again. "

 

The Kheldian would still be able to take Horus' form in the same way they take tank and squid forms, right? 

[Scarlet Shocker]

Thanks for inputs good folks.

 

My takeaway from a lot of this is that messing with alternative dimensions leaves... a mess. So many twisted and unfinished plot lines that could do well to be completed.

 

@tidge I am totally with you re Positron. I never liked him from the day I first encountered him. In a city full of meta-humans and strange powerful events, going into battle knowing that if your survival suit is punctured you will not only die but take at least one city zone of innocents with you struck me as being reckless and foolhardy to say the least but in late game Positron seems to be a reflection of extreme developer narcissism: Positron appears everywhere and presumes a leadership role but if you actually look at his stories in this period he fails continually - Flames of Prometheus are stolen from him, he gets captured by Tyrant, and as I've written previously I see no earthly reason why Daedalus should ever exist except the above.

 

Also Hero 1 as the Honoree is in the (awful awful) Mender arc where we first encounter the Well of the Furies - I had always presumed that this was some alt alt, a simulacrum of the corrupted Hero 1, but I'm not so sure now. Do we know where he actually is now?

 

@FupDup makes a point - I vaguely recall something about that and it jarred then - Malta; an organization dedicated to destroying metahumans, hires an alien extra-dimensional metahuman to destroy people from their own dimension and planet. That just... in any sane universe, that act alone would unite Freedom Phalanx, Vanguard & Arachnos (not to mention Hero Corpse and all the extra-governmental agencies) plus Governments themselves into the dedicated defeat and imprisonment of anyone remotely connected with the Malta Group - who IMNSHO are one of the better villain groups in the game. Did GyreFalcon get out of the beatdown with Reichsmann?

 

That said we are where we are and it would be great to see some of the multitude of loose ends put to bed in some way shape or form. Let's face it, there is no shortage of content here.

[Kaika]

36 minutes ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

 

Also Hero 1 as the Honoree is in the (awful awful) Mender arc where we first encounter the Well of the Furies - I had always presumed that this was some alt alt, a simulacrum of the corrupted Hero 1, but I'm not so sure now. Do we know where he actually is now?

In the mender arc Captain Holtz basically steals the Honoree with a device used to control him in a bid for power, yeah it's a little contrived and does not do a good job at explaining whats going on really, but it's not a alt universe/timeline thing or anything like that as you don't enter a pillar.

 

Presumably Honoree is still in Vanguard custody, they seem to be trying to figure out a way to cure him. He shows up in the Finale of Dream doctors arch where you fight mot, and joins you if you take the allies and says "Keep: Control. Able to assist: to best of my abilities." showing that he is starting to slowly regain control, but isn't entirely there yet. As far as I'm aware that's the last time he showed up on live.

 

Edited April 17, 2023 by Riot Siren

[BraveDecoy]

2 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

@FupDup makes a point - I vaguely recall something about that and it jarred then - Malta; an organization dedicated to destroying metahumans, hires an alien extra-dimensional metahuman to destroy people from their own dimension and planet. That just... in any sane universe, that act alone would unite Freedom Phalanx, Vanguard & Arachnos (not to mention Hero Corpse and all the extra-governmental agencies) plus Governments themselves into the dedicated defeat and imprisonment of anyone remotely connected with the Malta Group - who IMNSHO are one of the better villain groups in the game. Did GyreFalcon get out of the beatdown with Reichsmann?

 

I believe Malta's justification is that Battle Maiden isn't a "powered" being, she's a human with a nano-tech powered halberd.  All of her abilities are either standard sword and crossbow attacks, buffs from the halberd, or the result of decades of combat training and battles on Warrior Earth.  So just like all of Malta (and the Knives of Artemis), she's just a soldier with cool toys.

 

As it stands after the Dark Astoria events, Malta may be a little weakened but they have their three named leader/Arch-Villains back and are probably working on rebuilding their forces.  Being a shadowy para-military organization no one knows just how strong they are, and the few bases we know they have are in very sensitive locations (Warburg, etc)

 

Edit: And yeah, Positron's a schmuck.  The old lead dev Matt Millar's personal character.

Edited April 17, 2023 by BraveDecoy
more info added

[Uun]

23 hours ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

No one knows what's up with Lord Recluse these days, he's... reclusive.  🙂 

Doesn't Emperor Cole take out Recluse (and the rest of Arachnos) in Emperor Cole's Personal Story (at the end of Belladonna Vetrano's arc)?

[Kaika]

15 minutes ago, Uun said:

Doesn't Emperor Cole take out Recluse (and the rest of Arachnos) in Emperor Cole's Personal Story (at the end of Belladonna Vetrano's arc)?

Pretty sure that's more of a "defeated and slithered away" kinda deal more to show how powerful Cole was then to impart much story significance or else villain side would need some MAJOR overhauls.

[Clave Dark 5]

40 minutes ago, Uun said:

Doesn't Emperor Cole take out Recluse (and the rest of Arachnos) in Emperor Cole's Personal Story (at the end of Belladonna Vetrano's arc)?

I have no idea, because of the fractured way we get exposed to various parts of the lore, and a general disinterest, I barely know a thing about any of it.  I keep stumbling across tidbits on the wiki and going "oooh, now that one thing makes sense!"

[FupDup]

3 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

 

@FupDup makes a point - I vaguely recall something about that and it jarred then - Malta; an organization dedicated to destroying metahumans, hires an alien extra-dimensional metahuman to destroy people from their own dimension and planet. That just... in any sane universe, that act alone would unite Freedom Phalanx, Vanguard & Arachnos (not to mention Hero Corpse and all the extra-governmental agencies) plus Governments themselves into the dedicated defeat and imprisonment of anyone remotely connected with the Malta Group - who IMNSHO are one of the better villain groups in the game. Did GyreFalcon get out of the beatdown with Reichsmann?

The bigger issue is the massive ideological divide between Malta and Battle Maiden. BM believes that the strong should command the weak, as evidenced by her initial disgust at Max speaking with her. Malta, meanwhile, is an organization of "weak" normal humans that wants to control the "strong" metahumans because they can't get over their butthurt from the Cold War. If/when BM figures this out a betrayal is all but guaranteed. Maybe she might find refuge with Arachnos since they do actually embody the idea of "might makes right."

 

As for GyrFalcon, he got freed in Max's Dark Astoria arc along with some other key Malta figures.