Base Contest Announcement!

Dacy · April 25, 2023

9 minutes ago, Starforge said:

All bases that weren't considered as finalists for their respective categories should have been part of the Community Choice poll. I'd recommend that for the next one.

That was debated. The original HC contest only had 5 choices available. We had 74 bases entered. We did not think it was likely or even reasonable to believe that many people would see a list that long and even try to get to all 74, and they wouldn't know where to start, so they'd likely fall back on bases they knew or bases their friends told them to vote for. Do you think it's likely people would have visited that many? That is the conundrum with that idea, as good as it sounds. I would love it if people did visit all the bases, but that is a pretty tall order, and if you notice with the voting...as soon as it becomes clear where the majority is voting, there is a tendency for others to go with one of those two so they don't "waste" their vote. I promise you, there are a great many very deserving bases on that list that are not getting votes. So that is the obstacle for that path, and why we did not choose it; I'm open to suggestions as to how you'd get past that.

-Dacy

Ruin Mage · April 25, 2023

Do a poll a day or a poll a week for Community Choice, or something - don't just snub really well done bases, tbh.

That's a top of the head idea and would need more thought, but at least it seems like the idea that a Judge's Base cannot be entered (if I read that right) will stop the major issue with this Contest.

American Valor · April 26, 2023

I'm sorry to hear this I thank you both and all the judges that you had assist you. As the Former First Chair and Member of P.E.R.C. we dealt with similar things on Live. from our well known all shard CC events to our holiday events including base building those were differet times tho Just know there is a community within the community who love what your doing. Yours in understanding

American Valor

Romeyn · April 26, 2023

Thank you for all the hard work the judges have put into this contest. I think the rubric is the best method for grading these sorts of things, and is the most fair. This whole contest has been a great experience that allowed me to push myself harder than I normally would! I have some seen absolutely magnificent and creative bases. A round of applause should be given to all who entered!

GM Crumpet · April 27, 2023

Can I clarify a few things for people.

There was much discussion with the GM team about rules and procedures, and all of us gave input from GM's and Leads to yellow names. The CR's were very clear to us as to their goals and the rules, and accepted every one of the GM teams recommendations. If anyone has an issue with how the bases were picked, or which ones were allowed or not allowed it's on the GM team and not the CR's. The CR team does an incredible job with all they do and they do nothing without running it past the GM's first.

There was a lot of discussion about allowing bases that had had input from CR's before they joined the CR team and it was decided by us, not by the CR's that it would be unfair to the owners of the bases in question to be penalised because of things they did in the past. Perhaps that was a mistake. We were certainly wary of backlash, but the CR team then and now don't have any advantage over players. Nor do GM's in fact. There is no magic "build now" button that can bypass the hours of hard and painstaking work required to make something as imaginative and amazing as the bases on display.

As of writing this CR's have no access level higher than normal players. They are not "GM-lite". They are regular players who care deeply for the community and give up their time to do something brilliant for no reward. They do have access to GM's to chat and discuss any questions they have, but GM rulings are final and they accept that. We try to be as fair as possible and err on the side of caution. Any mistakes or decisions players disagree with are on the GM's and not the CR's, They tell us what they want to do and we as a team decide if it's a yes or no.

If anyone wishes to DM me or message me please feel free, I'm always willing to chat with players who have questions about our decisions.

What I would ask people to do is avoid personal attacks. People like Dacy and Easter Bunny do this for the love of the community, not what they can get out of it. Any decisions they made are with the blessings of the GM team. Any bases the CR team worked on in the past were judged as dispassionately as ones they didn't work on. If one of the CR team found it was something they had an input on they informed the CR and GM team and recused themselves from any discussion or voting involved. The CR team behaved in an exemplary fashion and any mistakes players perceive are the fault of the GM team and not the CR's. We were the final arbiters of what was allowed or not.

GM Crumpet · April 27, 2023

On 4/26/2023 at 12:00 AM, Shadeknight said:

Do a poll a day or a poll a week for Community Choice, or something - don't just snub really well done bases, tbh.

That's a top of the head idea and would need more thought, but at least it seems like the idea that a Judge's Base cannot be entered (if I read that right) will stop the major issue with this Contest.

Judges personal bases were always considered not allowed to enter. The difficulty came from the fact that over the last 4 years a lot of the CR's had input on quite a few bases as well known base builders. Someone would ask their advice or input, or have an idea but not the experience to make their vision reality. Anything they built from scratch and handed over wasn't allowed, but a lot of the CR's became CR's because of their passion and experience in base building. If a judge had built (say) a forest and gazebo in a base but the owners had done the rest then that judge would recuse themselves from discussing and judging that base. The CR team actually turned down a number of bases purely based on the fact they had done too much of the work.

There are always going to be winners and losers, and these things are going to be a judgement call. If the community as a whole decides that any input, no matter how small from a CR years before they became a CR is enough to disqualify a base from future contest we will of course abide by that wish. This is for the community as a whole to decide, but unless there is a clear consensus, the GM's make a decision based on what we consider fair.

UltraAlt · April 27, 2023

Honestly, I'm glad that there are Base Community Reps now.

My following comment is no way a jab having Community Reps for any portion of the community.

I'm against elitism on any level.

For this reason, I have to back way from everything related to the so-called "base community".

I don't think the intention is to aim the base building community toward elitism, but this appears to be the end result.

And I'm sorry that I feel that way.

I like to build bases, but any of my bases would be judged as "poor" in far as this contest would judge them even though each has its own flavor and supplies what anyone would need out of base for practical purposes.

I like the info that has been presented both in the forums and in videos in regard to base building.

A base that serves its purpose and provides flavor for a supergroup is a good base. It doesn't have to be in a contest to be a good base. It doesn't have to lose in a contest to be merely a good base.

I know it is worthless even entering a base contest here.

What's the point?

It has been made clear that the base building contest is for the elite. Other players should just understand that they are subadequate and bow out.

So I will leave the base community to the base elite because it is for those elite base builders.

I don't play the endgame either for much the same reason.

And again, honestly, I'm glad that there are Base Community Reps now.

Dacy has been doing a great job. I don't have to agree with everything or anything because I see how much Dacy puts into it. And that is why I have supported Dacy's base-related activities in the past.

I don't see many posts by Easter Bunny or - at least - they do not stand out for me.

Wravis · April 27, 2023

1 hour ago, UltraAlt said:

Honestly, I'm glad that there are Base Community Reps now.

My following comment is no way a jab having Community Reps for any portion of the community.

I'm against elitism on any level.

For this reason, I have to back way from everything related to the so-called "base community".

I don't think the intention is to aim the base building community toward elitism, but this appears to be the end result.

And I'm sorry that I feel that way.

I like to build bases, but any of my bases would be judged as "poor" in far as this contest would judge them even though each has its own flavor and supplies what anyone would need out of base for practical purposes.

I like the info that has been presented both in the forums and in videos in regard to base building.

A base that serves its purpose and provides flavor for a supergroup is a good base. It doesn't have to be in a contest to be a good base. It doesn't have to lose in a contest to be merely a good base.

I know it is worthless even entering a base contest here.

What's the point?

It has been made clear that the base building contest is for the elite. Other players should just understand that they are subadequate and bow out.

So I will leave the base community to the base elite because it is for those elite base builders.

I don't play the endgame either for much the same reason.

And again, honestly, I'm glad that there are Base Community Reps now.

Dacy has been doing a great job. I don't have to agree with everything or anything because I see how much Dacy puts into it. And that is why I have supported Dacy's base-related activities in the past.

I don't see many posts by Easter Bunny or - at least - they do not stand out for me.

Didn't you already tell everyone you were no longer participating in the last discussion thread about this base contest?

A contest is about competing.

All of the builders represented spent weeks, months, and at this point even years working on the bases they submitted. You saying it’s all elitism diminishes the hard work and effort put into the bases.

If you’ve spent weeks, months, years on your base and still feel like you can’t compete, then reach out and ask for help. Ask for advice. Figure out what they do that your base lacks.

Most of us will help. Even after you’ve insulted us.

Edited April 27, 2023 by Wravis

Dacy · April 27, 2023

9 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

don't see many posts by Easter Bunny or - at least - they do not stand out for me.

EB has backed off of this particular topic, because he feels it only looks like self-interest, and he's keenly aware of the shade being cast on his character, and doesn't want to make things worse. I, however, will stand and defend both his character and integrity, which I know to be solid and imo unimpeachable, and his talent, that deserves recognition. I believed that people had enough room in their hearts to be fair; most seem to. Some do not.

I suspect that, if he were making bases that were average, it wouldn't be an issue at all. But what you call "elite", I call simply, exceptional. You are right in that we have high standards for ourselves...but that doesn't mean we expect the same from others.. We, and other builders like us, tend to be perfectionists. When you use the word "elite", that sounds exclusive, with a very negative implication. I don't believe we're exclusive at all. Everyone has been welcome. Whether you want to know, simply, how to build, or you want to know the easiest way to do something, we'll help. If you want to find out more about making your base look more like you imagined it could and less like the editor wants it to look, we can help with that, too.

But not everyone does. And that's fine, too. I will 100% agree that just because a base did not win a contest does not make that a bad base. A base is bad if it doesn't work for you. A base is good if it does. However, a contest is, by nature, competitive. That means winners must be decided, and measurements and comparisons taken. I don't love it for the reason that there are always going to be more people that don't win then do, and many of these people have poured a lot of time and effort into their bases, and some feel heartbroken, and that makes me sad. But I do not feel it makes me "elitist". Unless by elitist, you mean "has standards of measurement". I don't walk into people's bases and start pointing out flaws. I will sometimes offer careful advice if asked. Easter Bunny, too, tho not as vocal on forums, is the one running around to the most bases, encouraging people and seeing what they are working on. Neither of us goes around proclaiming that the only bases worth anything are bases that are done as we think they should be. The whole reason I started doing the videos at all was because people didn't know how to edit and create, and it was an easy way to show a lot of people at once, and I want more people to be building, however that looks, because there really are not enough people that build to keep up with the demand. I am proud of everyone that has gotten into the editor and given it a go!

I think it's good that you know yourself in that entering a contest is not for you. Contests are, well, competitive. Believe me, the contest would not have even happened if EB wasn't a CR. We did it together, but, he's more passionate about offering it to the community than I, for the above reasons. And it IS an offering, because people WANTED it. Some people apparently only wanted it until they discovered that their base wasn't a finalist, but that's not how the majority felt. The majority seemed happy to have their bases seen, and enjoyed the positives we found. And I believe the majority will move on to improve their ability to create the vision they have in their mind.

The people who want to compete are ones that have poured their passion into the work. The ones that keep competing, even after losing, are ones that want to get better and match what they are seeing is possible. Just because a creation inspires awe, wonder, or appreciation to a lot of people, and we, the judges, recognize that on a measuring scale, and we the CRs help those that want to achieve that, does not mean we're looking down our noses at those who do not. Yes, the base builders who are in the top ranks have talent. Yes, they've applied that talent in clearly discernible ways to their creations. And I don't really know if it's more learned or natural, but I do know that anyone can improve if they want to. You say "elitism" , which has a very negative connotation, as if it's a bad thing for people to want their bases to look better. Art isn't elitism. Wanting to improve isn't elitism. Most people like to improve what they can. But it's up to them to decide what's an improvement, and what is needed.

-Dacy

stealthnight · April 27, 2023

I don't build bases for myself so my experience with the competition is a bit unique. All the bases I've built, and there are a lot, have been for other members of the CoH community that didn't have the skill/experience with the base editor that I do. I never charge for building these bases, I just asks for inspiration/theme from the base owner. The only thing I ask is that they use the base and don't let it sit on a dusty shelf somewhere. When I am done, the base owner is always overjoyed and that makes me happy.

The base competition was never an end-state for me. I am sure everyone in the community has different reasons for base building, winning a competition was never one of them. The CRs decided to shine a light on a community that works behind closed doors and allow us to get a bit of recognition for our hard work. Regardless of whether or not you won as an individual, we as a community won, and that makes me happy.

lemming · April 27, 2023

I entered this contest with no delusions and still got a couple nice comments from the judges. It also prompted me to tour the various bases mentioned which really was the best part of the contest for me. There are a lot of talented driven people involved around here.

And while I don't build very complicated bases, I'm benefiting directly because the base builders push for more stuff available, and now I get to make my labels for various places in the base a little less clunky! Yay!

CaptA · April 27, 2023

I visited all of the bases in the community choice list and was pretty impressed with some of the bases there. A few I had trouble navigating and some I wondered what the "goal" was, but overall I was impressed. I noticed that the bases on this list tended to have big footprints with large themes like islands and forests and clubs and underwater bases and the like. A lot of these were banking on "wow!" factor for showing what could be done in the editor. Bravo to all.

I appreciated the comments I received on my entry.

I agree with some of the comments/complaints I think here while also understanding where the judges were coming from on their selections. I wanted to offer some suggestions for the next contest with maybe a little more differentiation in categories so that a wider variety of bases could see some prizes. Maybe categorize somewhat by plot size.

I think utility/RP is a decent divider. Some bases seemed to be more "useful" than others. Some were definitely more "pretty". All good.

I would suggest some other categories, such as: Most in-line with theme

Best base on small plot

Best base on medium plot

Best base on large plot

Most realistic

Most interesting hidden or "secret" features

Best fantasy/tech/sci-fi/etc.

Easiest to use

Best kit-bashed feature

Best use of "tricks" or coding glitches

"Prettiest" or "Most natural" or the like

Etc.

Just some suggestions. I think the super-bases (hundreds of hours of editing) are great, but they should be a category.

EDIT: Also wanted to add as categories: Above plot and In plot (building on top of the base vs within the walls). Just another to add to the list of suggestions.

Edited April 29, 2023 by CaptA

Dacy · April 28, 2023

2 hours ago, CaptA said:

Just some suggestions. I think the super-bases (hundreds of hours of editing) are great, but they should be a category.

Kind of did this with the item counts, tho we've realized the cutoff line should be closer to 5k, but we did try with this contest to spread the awards, and I think we did a fair job, especially for a first try. There are definitely bases that would not have been able to compete, score-wise, with the larger bases that people have worked on, literally, for years, that may win their category. That was the whole reason we did the different categories and the item limits. The bases that tend to get the most attention from the builder and are the most detailed, most intricate, and typically have great technical merit, are the larger RP bases. This year, we have strong showings from bases from first time builders, bases on tiny plots, etc. See, what makes a base big or small isn't really the plot size; I've seen bases in a large plot that are nearly bare, and bases on a small plot that are intricate. My own space ship winning base from the first contest is on a smallish plot, but at 12 K, would be competing in the big base category. When you can build up, and when details can be very tiny, item count is a much better predictor of size and/or intricacy. Intricacy can be tricky, though; there are focused bases that do a lot in a very small space with not that many pieces. No matter what limitations you set, whether plot or item count, the bases that are finished with the most skill, artistic merit, and attention to details and their theme, are the ones that will win, because it's a competition.

I promise, some of the categories you suggested have already been thought of, and the next contest will be very different. One thing I knew, but which has become even more clear is, there is never going to be a contest where all of the bases out there from this incredibly creative and wide ranging player base, find a perfect fit in the categories we present. And I'd suggest to those whose bases don't fit the categories next time around: just wait. Maybe suggest something. We're trying to make sure the contests are for everyone who cares to enter. There also may be smaller, limited time or theme contests from time to time...but we also don't want to burn out our builders. Or judges. Or CRs!

2 hours ago, CaptA said:

I noticed that the bases on this list tended to have big footprints with large themes

Lava.. Crash Castle. Wild West All Stars. Super Nation. The Station. And even Lake, not terribly piece heavy. Did you see these? Pretty significant list. None are terribly large.

-Dacy

Edited April 28, 2023 by Dacy

Aalya · April 28, 2023

I just want to say that most of the bases that are entered into this contest were NOT built specifically for the contest. I know for a fact that Vault Lux, Lake, Rampage City, and even my own have been around for a significant amount of time. For some of us, it has been years. We don't build for contests. We build for ourselves and for others. Did we go back and polish after we found out that the contest was going up before entering? Yes. Of course. Because we wanted to present our best work. This is an artform, as specialized as it is. And as artists, we work hard to improve our skills. If people are going to have a problem with their bases being judged, don't enter a contest. It's that simple. If you have an issue with the contest existing, go find something else to do instead of attacking it. We are enjoying ourselves over here. You can enjoy yourself over there. There's no reason to take fun away from someone else just because you don't like the method of fun we're having. Complaining because your base didn't do as well does nothing to improve your skills. We all worked very, VERY hard on our bases, and seeing all this commentary about how we don't deserve to be considered for the community choice because "elitism" or whatever is extremely hurtful to all of us, not just the individuals the comments are being directed towards. And bullying the judges does nothing to help you improve your skills either. Be excellent to each other, and work to improve yourself before you invest so much time and energy into knocking others down. It's childish, and we should all be acting like the adults we're supposed to be. Honestly, after seeing how the CRs have been treated, I wouldn't be surprised if they never do another contest again. I sure as hell wouldn't. They have been working themselves to death and have gotten little more than harassment as thank you. And they have been doing this for us.

GM Crumpet · April 28, 2023

4 hours ago, Aalya said:

I just want to say that most of the bases that are entered into this contest were NOT built specifically for the contest. I know for a fact that Vault Lux, Lake, Rampage City, and even my own have been around for a significant amount of time. For some of us, it has been years. We don't build for contests. We build for ourselves and for others. Did we go back and polish after we found out that the contest was going up before entering? Yes. Of course. Because we wanted to present our best work. This is an artform, as specialized as it is. And as artists, we work hard to improve our skills. If people are going to have a problem with their bases being judged, don't enter a contest. It's that simple. If you have an issue with the contest existing, go find something else to do instead of attacking it. We are enjoying ourselves over here. You can enjoy yourself over there. There's no reason to take fun away from someone else just because you don't like the method of fun we're having. Complaining because your base didn't do as well does nothing to improve your skills. We all worked very, VERY hard on our bases, and seeing all this commentary about how we don't deserve to be considered for the community choice because "elitism" or whatever is extremely hurtful to all of us, not just the individuals the comments are being directed towards. And bullying the judges does nothing to help you improve your skills either. Be excellent to each other, and work to improve yourself before you invest so much time and energy into knocking others down. It's childish, and we should all be acting like the adults we're supposed to be. Honestly, after seeing how the CRs have been treated, I wouldn't be surprised if they never do another contest again. I sure as hell wouldn't. They have been working themselves to death and have gotten little more than harassment as thank you. And they have been doing this for us.

The CR's have worked really hard. I've personally had DM's from members of the team at all hours of the day and night asking to clarify this, can we do that, what if we do the other.

As for the accusation of eliteism I'm confused. Everyone starts with the same base, empty and waiting to be filled. Some people are extraordinary and have the ability to see how putting several unrelated items together can make something unexpected. Not everyone can, I certainly can't. I'd heard of several of the CR's as base builders long before they became CR's and I've had a couple of them pop into my personal base and tweak something that I wanted but didn't know how to achieve. And this was on my player account. I'm not a GM who wanders round on my player account going "look at me I'm a GM" unless it's absolutely necessary. If I'm on my player account I'm a player and the CR's still probably don't know who I am when I don't have my GM hat on. And you know what? Even thinking I'm just a player they were so helpful and generous. There was no "You're an idiot" when I asked if they could help me fix a mistake. There was just "Yeah, invite me to the SG and I'll take a look". Five minutes later it was fixed.

And they did that with a lot of players. Someone would come on to the help channel saying "I've really messed up and don't know how to fix it" and one of the base-building-for-fun players has jumped on and sorted it out for them. I've never seen anyone laugh and point and abuse a player because they aren't as good as the CR's. Just a "How can I help?".

A lot of the base builders (non CR's as well as CR's) are true artists. They are Michelangelo to my 5 year old with safety scissors and glitter making fridge pictures for mommy. I'm not a good base builder. I plonk things down, it functions and doesn't look too horrible. I'll never win a base building contest. And that's OK.

Aalya · April 28, 2023

Exactly my point. And I used the word "elitism" because someone else was throwing the accusation around. I'm just as confused as you are, Crumpet. You are absolutely right. We all start with the exact same tools in the exact same box. It's a janky box that's buggy and breaks and it's limited and difficult to work with, and that's why it's wonderful. It forces us, as creative people, to think. And it's work. It's hard work to make this difficult tool that was made 20 years ago bend to our will. It takes time and devotion and energy to learn the craft. Just like any other form of artistic endeavor. There's lots of stuff in other bases that I look at and think, "I could do that." But then I have to remind myself that I didn't. I wasn't the one who put in the time and energy to make that other thing. The person who made it did. And that's what makes it amazing. Someone made it. Period. Full stop.

These two are some of the nicest, kindest, most helpful people out there. They are devoting their time, energy, and tears (no, that is NOT an exaggeration, rest assured) into organizing something for the community they represent. Because they are NICE. I have seen them do exactly as Crumpet is describing countless times as well.
What they don't deserve is people throwing fits over a lack of participation trophies, accusations of people rigging things who aren't, and the general tantrums over stupid nonsense that people have been throwing since day one of this contest being announced.

Treat these kind people with the same kindness that they have show you.

You're better than this, Homecoming.

Kosmic · April 28, 2023

These are some great bases, glad there is a place to have them been posted to see them all. No matter the situation or thoughts on the contest. It has been enjoyable to explore them all.

lemming · April 28, 2023

6 hours ago, GM Crumpet said:

A lot of the base builders (non CR's as well as CR's) are true artists. They are Michelangelo to my 5 year old with safety scissors and glitter making fridge pictures for mommy. I'm not a good base builder. I plonk things down, it functions and doesn't look too horrible. I'll never win a base building contest. And that's OK.

There's the category we need! Safety Scissors & Glitter! ™

Cloudless Night · April 29, 2023

lol all the alts watching the clock, waiting to dump their votes at the last second.

Eleventeen · April 29, 2023

That's a lot of people that just went to look at bases in the few minutes before the contest was over. Like 20 votes dropped minutes before the end or so?

American Valor · April 29, 2023

Reading rules prevents this early doom crting . From Base crawl page. I hope to see more people touring tomorrow at 2PM.

Quote

Saturday, April 29, 2 PM EST All of the above, but we'll start with the Excelsior group.

Afterwards, stay for a trivia game! There will be prizes. And after you've toured, be sure to vote! Voting closes on Saturday, and we'll award the winning bases on Sunday, April 30 at 5 PM EST in Kallisti, near the Statesman Statue. See you there!

AV

Edited April 29, 2023 by American Valor

Dacy · April 29, 2023

I do have to announce, I messed up. I had meant the polls to close at midnight at the end of the day Saturday. My addled brain made this midnight Saturday, which is of course, the beginning of Saturday, not the end. Can’t change the time the polls close, and at this point, I don’t think anyone from Homecoming wants to touch anything about this poll, lest we’d be accused of tampering. But with the vote closed, this means there is no point in doing more tours on Saturday. Easter bunny and I are tired. Doing the 15 bases once again when there’s no more voting possible just didn’t make sense. However, of course you all are free to tour them and appreciate them as much as you’d like. They are all awesome and deserving of your attention.

-Dacy

Acanous · April 29, 2023

Darn, no last minute case for Rampage 😞

DawL · April 29, 2023

11 hours ago, Cloudless Night said:

lol all the alts watching the clock, waiting to dump their votes at the last second.

Or a fan girl pinging and sending screenies to friends and asking them to vote for her fave. ;)

Eleventeen · April 29, 2023

4 minutes ago, DawL said:

Or a fan girl pinging and sending screenies to friends and asking them to vote for her fave. 😉

Ummm...

Shouldn't people be encouraging others to look at all the bases and vote for which they feel deserves it?

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