The beautiful Aeon Strike Force and it's tragic failure

[lemming]

6 hours ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

Hey shout out to Cobalt Arachne who actually dug into the redside lore and wrote an incredible TF that not only respects what was written but builds on it and its characters (PsiCurse, Becky, King Midas, and love or hate her: Zoe).

 

Sorry to see a bunch of people say it was written poorly. Sucks that apparently nobody paid attention to the perfectly designed cut scenes, the NPC Dialog that is dropped in local when team leads speaks to NPCs, or even look at the souvenir afterward if there's any confusion. 

 

Not universal opinions by any means.

It's a lot to take in, but the various lore callbacks and everything are great.  I can see why people have issues with it, but I enjoy it.

[brasilgringo]

Is there a link or wiki somewhere that actually explains the story in detail of Aeon?  Because it really doesn't make much sense to me, and I've run it a fair amount.

[rolandgrey]

3 hours ago, brasilgringo said:

Is there a link or wiki somewhere that actually explains the story in detail of Aeon?  Because it really doesn't make much sense to me, and I've run it a fair amount.

 

Well, here's the Homecoming Wiki entry...

 

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Dr._Aeon_Strike_Force

 

If you're well-versed in the lore of the game, then the Aeon Strike Force makes a lot of sense.  I'm not saying that to knock on you, just pointing out a simple fact.

 

The Aeon Strike Force's central conflict revolves around a device called the D-Rifter, a device that was a throwaway MacGuffin in a single mission provided by the Golden Roller in Cap Au Diable.  Everything else in the Strike Force is derived from the concepts provided by the D-Rifter, a device that draws in random things from random dimensions.  It's a run through the game's stories and events from all across the game, but with the twist that these are alternate takes on them.  The average player who just tags along and beats up big groups of enemies to gain XP and level up to maximum or just speedruns through the maps to get end-mission rewards as fast as possible?  This stuff's going to fly over their heads because they skipped the dialogue, the clues, the collecting evidence, and when the cutscenes came up, they rolled their eyes and grumbled or went to get a drink or snack.  If you don't pay attention to the story in the rest of the game, the story of the Aeon Strike Force WILL fly right over your head.

[Rigged]

On 5/24/2023 at 1:02 AM, Snarky said:

2) Starred.  Just impossible for me.  I am a carry.  I will prob pay a good team for the badges on a toon if I ever want them.

 

Have not done a starred ASF, so I don't understand: what about the Aeon SF makes the starred version so much harder than other starred TFs? If you can do the starred ITF I presume the starred ASF is not particularly more challenging.

 

I have only done the ASF a couple of times myself, but I have a different point of view: It is sadly destined to become like so many other unpopular TFs because of how long it is, run only when it is the WST. I read the writing but personally was annoyed I could not follow the long conversations during briefings. Only the TF leader can do that.

 

If you ask me, the golden roller mission should have been a separate trial, removing the optional objectives to shorten it. The rest of the missions being the main TF would have been fine.

[Snarky]

5 hours ago, Rigged said:

 

Have not done a starred ASF, so I don't understand: what about the Aeon SF makes the starred version so much harder than other starred TFs? If you can do the starred ITF I presume the starred ASF is not particularly more challenging.

 

One of my main issues with Aeon is getting to the objectives (and understanding)  Now, turn everything in the TF into haunted house murder bots and I am pretty much done.

[Chronicler J]

On 5/23/2023 at 1:02 PM, Snarky said:

  i exit mission, open AH to restock insp

 

This is really funny. 

[Snarky]

24 minutes ago, Chronicler J said:

 

This is really funny. 

Well, I mean between missions.  It is just a habit of long term play.  /macro AH AH  gives a power button to open AH and I exit the mission (after it ends) open AH, grab a stack or two or insp, close and head to next door.  takes ...10-15 secs tops...?  But that is not nearly fast enough with a speed Aeon crew.  (and I have slower travel powers.  Mystic Flight has a TP I use to strealth past mobs.  But it is one of the slower travels in CoH)

[Ruin Mage]

What a Thread.

 

13 hours ago, Rigged said:

If you can do the starred ITF I presume the starred ASF is not particularly more challenging.

The HM ITF is plain smash/lethal with a sprinkle of energy/negative damage. The most annoying aspects being the Hostless and the Immunes fort'ing an EB and then TPIng away. The colossi and then the two-part fight against Romulus being the major hurdles.

The HM ASF has a few nastier tricks up its sleeve. Smelters with Melt Armor that stacks, Rifters that do that SUCC, Brickernauts that self-destruct (1HKO), and some varying intensity of AV mechanics. It's a beefy thing to go against. Any of the AV fights barring Roller can end up being the make or break depending.

 

[GM Crumpet]

As a story I find it quite compelling. As a SF I nope right out of there. It's not one I enjoy or wish to play again, and you know what? That's perfectly fine. We don't all enjoy the same things.

 

Players were complaining the content was too easy, that there wasn't anything complicated they had to work hard on to discover strategies and builds to take it on. The devs listened, and created both a very complicated SF and a new difficulty system that made players have to work for the rewards. Now all I hear is "It's too hard, My Defender is useless. I can't play a controller on this" etc. etc. There is going to be stuff you love, and stuff you don't. You can't please everyone. There are players who like this SF and have worked hard to the point they can speed run it and snatch the goodies. Which is fine for them. What's not fine is if those same speed runners berate players new to the SF for being noobs and not knowing exactly what's going on, and not being in the right place immediately. 

 

For players like me who don't really know what's going on and just follow along behind and hit things it's not ideal. I did it on Beta before release and wanted to linger and look at all the fun stuff in there, of which there is a vast amount. There are so many fun easter eggs scattered around, plus fun NPCs (Becky) and I wish there was a low diff version you could run solo and just meander through enjoying the very hard work that went into making it. I wouldn't even care if there were no badges on the "easy" version. Or any PaPs. Just a standard XP/inf/merits reward for completing a standard story arc. But as it is it wasn't created for players like me. It was created for those players who wanted a challenge and something past "Oh God, not Penny Yin again".

[Jiro Ito]

I love hard mode Aeon SFs!  I like hard mode ITFs less, I feel like they're much harder than Aeons at like difficulty, and without the reward of a Dysnc at the end; plus Aeon has lots of optional content throughout (ripple AVs), while all of the added stuff in ITF is required (monstrous robots and Vandal).  The hard stuff also makes me a better player.  A standard TF I've done a lot doesn't teach me anything new about my AT, or powersets, or how I've gone about selecting powers and slotting enhancements.  4 stars makes me put a lot more thought into it.  

 

I hate speed runs.  No time for jokes, no making new friends, no "fun."  Fun for me is different than fun for others, and that's fine.  I'd rather do a single 4 star Aeon with the Vanguard fight in 90 minutes, taking our time, making jokes, taking the side roads, then speed run the same ol' easy stuff and not say anything at all.  

 

It helps to have a regular group of pals to run this stuff with, so things don't get bogged down.  

[JasperStone]

7 hours ago, GM Crumpet said:

As a story I find it quite compelling. As a SF I nope right out of there. It's not one I enjoy or wish to play again, and you know what? That's perfectly fine. We don't all enjoy the same things.

 

Players were complaining the content was too easy, that there wasn't anything complicated they had to work hard on to discover strategies and builds to take it on. The devs listened, and created both a very complicated SF and a new difficulty system that made players have to work for the rewards. Now all I hear is "It's too hard, My Defender is useless. I can't play a controller on this" etc. etc. There is going to be stuff you love, and stuff you don't. You can't please everyone. There are players who like this SF and have worked hard to the point they can speed run it and snatch the goodies. Which is fine for them. What's not fine is if those same speed runners berate players new to the SF for being noobs and not knowing exactly what's going on, and not being in the right place immediately. 

 

For players like me who don't really know what's going on and just follow along behind and hit things it's not ideal. I did it on Beta before release and wanted to linger and look at all the fun stuff in there, of which there is a vast amount. There are so many fun easter eggs scattered around, plus fun NPCs (Becky) and I wish there was a low diff version you could run solo and just meander through enjoying the very hard work that went into making it. I wouldn't even care if there were no badges on the "easy" version. Or any PaPs. Just a standard XP/inf/merits reward for completing a standard story arc. But as it is it wasn't created for players like me. It was created for those players who wanted a challenge and something past "Oh God, not Penny Yin again".

Not a fan of Aeon, but I do love the new difficulties modes especially for ITFs 🙂 

[carroto]

On 5/28/2023 at 4:19 AM, brasilgringo said:

it really doesn't make much sense to me, and I've run it a fair amount.

 

Yeah that's one thing that separates ASF from all other content in the game for me.  Not matter how many times I play it I still have no idea what's going on.  Everyone rushes here and there and incan's the team so okay we're here now for some reason.  If I try to go slow and find my own way through on a squishy I guess some (or all) of the mobs have increased perception?  So I can't even look around without getting ganked.

 

At this point I've just accepted I won't probably ever understand it and any time I join I'm expecting the pros to carry me.

[Bio-Link]

well you just need to do it enough, i enjoy 4* ASF, one of the few things that are challenging anymore, and the rewards are really worth it, you need a good team though as it is one of the few things that can fail unless the team knows what it is doing, cant remember last time i failed anything else exept maybe keyes, when people are killin AM.

[BurtHutt]

On 5/30/2023 at 2:05 AM, GM Crumpet said:

As a story I find it quite compelling. As a SF I nope right out of there. It's not one I enjoy or wish to play again, and you know what? That's perfectly fine. We don't all enjoy the same things.

 

Players were complaining the content was too easy, that there wasn't anything complicated they had to work hard on to discover strategies and builds to take it on. The devs listened, and created both a very complicated SF and a new difficulty system that made players have to work for the rewards. Now all I hear is "It's too hard, My Defender is useless. I can't play a controller on this" etc. etc. There is going to be stuff you love, and stuff you don't. You can't please everyone. There are players who like this SF and have worked hard to the point they can speed run it and snatch the goodies. Which is fine for them. What's not fine is if those same speed runners berate players new to the SF for being noobs and not knowing exactly what's going on, and not being in the right place immediately. 

 

For players like me who don't really know what's going on and just follow along behind and hit things it's not ideal. I did it on Beta before release and wanted to linger and look at all the fun stuff in there, of which there is a vast amount. There are so many fun easter eggs scattered around, plus fun NPCs (Becky) and I wish there was a low diff version you could run solo and just meander through enjoying the very hard work that went into making it. I wouldn't even care if there were no badges on the "easy" version. Or any PaPs. Just a standard XP/inf/merits reward for completing a standard story arc. But as it is it wasn't created for players like me. It was created for those players who wanted a challenge and something past "Oh God, not Penny Yin again".

Very interesting points. Is there a chance the HC team could post which TFs/SFs/Trials etc get played and how much? I really don't enjoy the Aeon SF and I'm wondering if I'm in the minority or... It's impossible to tell from the forums as a small amount come on here. I don't see Aeon advertised too much on Excel but I'm not on as much as I once was.

 

I do like your point about how it wasn't designed for you. I might be in the same boat. So, who was it designed for? How many players take a look at all the small details and have read all of the info as they played? I would guess a small amount. Wouldn't it make sense to maybe have future content that isn't as densely packed and more streamlined? 

 

I'm more than happy these hard modes have been added but the issues with Aeon aren't the modes, IMO. I feel its just too much written material and too many details....and maybe a mission or two too long.

[Glowman]

Couldn't many of the criticisms just be addressed by starting your own Aeon and advertising it as a slow roll/RP/learning experience run? It's not that tough at all at 1 *. There aren't currently a lot of casual runs advertised (at least on Everlasting), but that would be easy enough to change.

[BurtHutt]

32 minutes ago, Glowman said:

Couldn't many of the criticisms just be addressed by starting your own Aeon and advertising it as a slow roll/RP/learning experience run? It's not that tough at all at 1 *. There aren't currently a lot of casual runs advertised (at least on Everlasting), but that would be easy enough to change.

I have done this but it is so convoluted that it was still annoying... and wasn't a lot of fun. 

[Brawlin]

The mission should've been cut into parts to make it more digestible at higher difficulties and challenge settings. Would run it a lot more outside of my own friend group if it didn't take ~2hrs+ to clear with pugs.

The Vanguard is one of the only fun fights to tank in the game and in order to try it you have to spend 60+ minutes running around clearing trash, then after you clear it you have to spend another 60 minutes clearing trash waiting for your reward because lets face it; a lone kinetic melee AV that has the gimmick of blue vomit and a allergy to lava isnt that much to look forward to after the awesome fight against the Vangaurd.

The pacing of the ASF kills it. 

[Zhym]

The tragic failure of ASF is that it's a lore-heavy story arc pretending to be a SF.

 

People do SFs and FTs as speed runs.  We know this.  There's no such thing as a "stop and look at all the Easter eggs" SF run.  And yet ASF is full of Easter eggs and story you can only see if you slow down and pay attention to it.

 

As a story arc, it would be incredible.  You could take your time, read all the dialog (I mean, Becky alone is worth the time), do a mission here and there in short bursts instead of having to do it all at once, and really be able to appreciate all the lore and story.  Heck, if ASF were an AE arc it would be one of my favorites. 

 

But for some reason, it got implemented as a SF.  Which is a damned shame, because the SF speed runners don't care about the story aspects and the people who want to enjoy the story generally can't run it solo.

 

My theory about why this ended up a SF is that it got caught up in trying to be two things: (1) a great lore-focused story and (2) one of the standard bearers for the new "hard mode" and the associated new currency (the prismatic aether particles).  IMO, the latter took over the former—and in many ways, ruined it.  

 

I still want an "easy mode" version of ASF (maybe as a Flashback mission?) that can be done solo.  Because the story is so good, there really ought to be a way for mere mortals (well, superhero mortals) to experience the whole story.

 

(I'd apologize for resurrecting an old thread, but @Snarky has already said he doesn't mind necromancy.)

Edited July 27, 2023 by Zhym

[Snarky]

1 hour ago, Zhym said:

The tragic failure of ASF is that it's a lore-heavy story arc pretending to be a SF.

 

People do SFs and FTs as speed runs.  We know this.  There's no such thing as a "stop and look at all the Easter eggs" SF run.  And yet ASF is full of Easter eggs and story you can only see if you slow down and pay attention to it.

 

As a story arc, it would be incredible.  You could take your time, read all the dialog (I mean, Becky alone is worth the time), do a mission here and there in short bursts instead of having to do it all at once, and really be able to appreciate all the lore and story.  Heck, if ASF were an AE arc it would be one of my favorites. 

 

But for some reason, it got implemented as a SF.  Which is a damned shame, because the SF speed runners don't care about the story aspects and the people who want to enjoy the story generally can't run it solo.

 

My theory about why this ended up a SF is that it got caught up in trying to be two things: (1) a great lore-focused story and (2) one of the standard bearers for the new "hard mode" and the associated new currency (the prismatic aether particles).  IMO, the latter took over the former—and in many ways, ruined it.  

 

I still want an "easy mode" version of ASF (maybe as a Flashback mission?) that can be done solo.  Because the story is so good, there really ought to be a way for mere mortals (well, superhero mortals) to experience the whole story.

 

(I'd apologize for resurrecting an old thread, but @Snarky has already said he doesn't mind necromancy.)

I have this same issue with most of WoW dungeons.  I am a completionist.  Real OCD type.  But I only showed up in WoW during Panda after CoH flew itself into the ground instead of landing normally.  

 

I would gladly take a toon and do each zone (everything) in order including dungeons.  But you cannot.  It is verbotten.  And there is no practical way to do the dungeons in order with any pick up group.  Tangent.

 

But this illustrates the problem.  In these two games, and I am sure others, Devs want to wrap up story lines and move stories forward.  But...if they make it slow paced enough that a slow learner like me can take it in then everyone says it is boring, unchallenging, and sucks.   So.... They make a beast of a TF/SF/Dungeon?Group thang.  Then throw in every easter egg they want as if it was a gentle walk through a flower garden.  Because they want both, and they have no third option.

[Mezmera]

8 hours ago, Zhym said:

The tragic failure of ASF is that it's a lore-heavy story arc pretending to be a SF.

 

People do SFs and FTs as speed runs.  We know this.  There's no such thing as a "stop and look at all the Easter eggs" SF run.  And yet ASF is full of Easter eggs and story you can only see if you slow down and pay attention to it.

 

As a story arc, it would be incredible.  You could take your time, read all the dialog (I mean, Becky alone is worth the time), do a mission here and there in short bursts instead of having to do it all at once, and really be able to appreciate all the lore and story.  Heck, if ASF were an AE arc it would be one of my favorites. 

 

But for some reason, it got implemented as a SF.  Which is a damned shame, because the SF speed runners don't care about the story aspects and the people who want to enjoy the story generally can't run it solo.

 

My theory about why this ended up a SF is that it got caught up in trying to be two things: (1) a great lore-focused story and (2) one of the standard bearers for the new "hard mode" and the associated new currency (the prismatic aether particles).  IMO, the latter took over the former—and in many ways, ruined it.  

 

I still want an "easy mode" version of ASF (maybe as a Flashback mission?) that can be done solo.  Because the story is so good, there really ought to be a way for mere mortals (well, superhero mortals) to experience the whole story.

 

(I'd apologize for resurrecting an old thread, but @Snarky has already said he doesn't mind necromancy.)

 

All of the Strike Forces are lore heavy what are you talking about?!

 

Take the LRSF and MLTF for instance.  There's so much stuff packed into those that if you slowed down to take notice it would be clear again that these were the crest of the lore that was building up to these showdowns with Recluse or all those do-gooder heroes.  

 

Eventually people had 'been there, done that' enough that they know all the nooks and crannies and could care less about the lore they are reintroduced to time after time.  So they just speed through to maximize the rewards vs time spent since SF's rightly so carry some of the better rewards.  

 

I don't contend that it might be one mission too long with all of those epic events and maybe a little too much trying to be packed into this fresh new SF.  But as far as lore in SF's go, your SF's should be the most lore heavy content to get others interested in running the smaller backstories.  The SF's should be the Avengers events and the in between content should be the Iron Man, Captain America, etc. stories.  

[Snarky]

3 hours ago, Mezmera said:

The SF's should be the Avengers events and the in between content should be the Iron Man, Captain America, etc. stories.  

more like...Mystery Men!

[GM Crumpet]

15 hours ago, Snarky said:

more like...Mystery Men!

I love that film 🙂 

[Snarky]

10 minutes ago, GM Crumpet said:

I love that film 🙂 

I just learned that it was evidently a really hard film to shoot.  Due to the ensemble cast and the writing and directing it was a doozy.  So the line towards the end about "not bickering" is poignant.

[High_Beam]

15 hours ago, Snarky said:

more like...Mystery Men!

Love this movie.  Love the Blue Raja and the Shoveller and the Spleen and The Bowler.

 

"I shovel.  I shovel well!"

 

Makes me want to jump in the Herkemer Battle Jitney and beat up some of the Disco Boys.

[Snarky]

33 minutes ago, High_Beam said:

Love this movie.  Love the Blue Raja and the Shoveller and the Spleen and The Bowler.

 

"I shovel.  I shovel well!"

 

Makes me want to jump in the Herkemer Battle Jitney and beat up some of the Disco Boys.