Boomtown

[Techwright]

At this stage in the game's timeline, how far are we past the events that turned Baumton into Boomtown?  Clearly enough, at least, to begin some reconstruction.

 

I ask, because, shouldn't we be detonating those incredibly dangerous skyscrapers immediately?  Dangerous not only due to falling, but due to many being used on their more stable floors as hives of scum and villainy.  Would it not be better to turn them into piles of rubble to be removed at some future point as reconstruction gradually proceeds?  Send leagues of heroes and anti-heroes in to chase out the villains and drop the buildings.  Scores of gravity and time heroes should be able to help in a cooperative effort in keeping the collapse to a minimum, reducing dust clouds and such.

[lfbn]

I really wish someone would do something with Boomtown specifically. There's absolutely not reason to go there beyond badge hunting and a couple TF missions.

It would be a massive undertaking and yet another zone that needs a bunch of new content even to get it to the standard of Faultline though. I can understand why no one wants to tackle it yet.

[lemming]

Building standards are pretty interesting in the CoX universe.  You have buildings that are partially fallen over, but still structurally sound enough to sit in that position for years.  And somehow, I doubt in our world, that bit of work they're doing on the building near the steel entrance [-1824.4 93.7 5349.5] would happen.  I think most buildings would just be razed and then maybe a rebuild.

 

Of course, we've got a few zones that are messed up.  Boomtown & Faultline seem to be the only ones with some work being done.  And the construction in Steel has now been going on for quite some time.   Resource wise, it would seem to make sense to fix that leak in the dam as a priority...

 

We have more population coming in via Praetorian refugees and Galaxy City getting smashed.

 

There's a lot of story that is just waiting to be picked up again.

[TheZag]

Id be down for the construction crew to unearth an item of some importance that causes new enemy groups to descend upon the zone in a mad dash to discover what else lies beneath the rubble.

 

Its alot of work though.  I think the team would want a minimum of 2 story arc contacts and more likely to want at least 4.  Writing mission text for 10 to 40ish missions is a big undertaking even if the plot is already decided upon.  I knew what i wanted for my Lady Grey task force 2 in AE and it still took a few weeks between writing and testing for me to release a 4 mission task force.  Part of it was due to changing things to work within the confines of AE that devs could work right through,  but alot of it was just writing and editing the story board.

 

[Black Talon]

Boomtown, for me, is a place that has remained a CoX go-to strictly because of the questionable-but-still-standing architecture.  The original Faultline, while a visually arresting location, had no essential story to justify sending characters in to scrap the hordes of CoT-types, Vahzilok, and what-have-you that hung out in the assorted crevices.  Boomtown, while it's certainly got an essentially numberless villain population, is also considerably easier to navigate, especially for those alts (and I have a couple) with Super-Speed as their travel power.  As a just-off-the-top thinking, here, I'd love to see a trilogy/quadrology of story arcs put together that use the place just as it is, the various villain groups interfering with urban reconstruction to keep progress to a minimum (thus preserving current visuals), and perhaps an AV showdown in the tunnels at the end of the third/fourth arc.  I understand that back in pre-Shutdown, there was a Faultline Task Force in place that could take upwards of a fricking day to accomplish, and the time commitment is a primary reason I never indulged in such - using the current Faultline story-arcs as a model makes it much more accessible.  Boomtown remains a place I enjoy coming to look over for the urban destruction aspect, and having a neo-Faultline set of reasons to come and explore the zone, rather than just instanced missions, would provide, for me, at least, a real justification to keep the place as it is.

[Go0gleplex]

From a civil engineering standpoint, so much of Boomtown needs to be re-vamped...those insanely tall retaining walls (which would never be built realistically). The buildings would have fallen on their own due to massive structural failures via stress at the angles many of those high-rise ruins are sitting at.  Skyway's elevated roads and walls are similar.  The original zones vs the Gold side city zones definitely high light design for game challenge vs more real world-ish simulation. 

 

Agree...more needs to be done with Boom and Fault...and the Hollows for that matter. So many wasted zones with potential.

[Greycat]

I wrote out a plan to revamp and slowly reclaim boomtown over several issues... back on live, I think. Reclaiming the nearest section, then escorting workers and dealing with threats and discoveries farther out, finally driving enemies to the edges while most of the zone is reclaimed.

 

I think the biggest issue is what tools the devs have available to them currently to modify or revamp zones. Mobs would be one thing, a remake a la Faultline, something else.

[Snarky]

9 hours ago, Techwright said:

At this stage in the game's timeline, how far are we past the events that turned Baumton into Boomtown?  Clearly enough, at least, to begin some reconstruction.

 

I ask, because, shouldn't we be detonating those incredibly dangerous skyscrapers immediately?  Dangerous not only due to falling, but due to many being used on their more stable floors as hives of scum and villainy.  Would it not be better to turn them into piles of rubble to be removed at some future point as reconstruction gradually proceeds?  Send leagues of heroes and anti-heroes in to chase out the villains and drop the buildings.  Scores of gravity and time heroes should be able to help in a cooperative effort in keeping the collapse to a minimum, reducing dust clouds and such.

After it blew up.

[Techwright]

7 hours ago, lemming said:

We have more population coming in via Praetorian refugees and Galaxy City getting smashed.

 

There's a lot of story that is just waiting to be picked up again.

 

This especially caught my eye.  I'd been aware of the supers coming over from Praetoria, but it suddenly occurred to me that the normals have come in droves as well.  The story potentials from that!  Here we have a city (Paragon) that has been repeatedly battered and the population diminished as people either die or move away.  Suddenly, we've got a massive refuge population streaming in.  There should be stories of the reaction to that.  The nation and the world at large may be somewhat sympathetic, but reluctant to allow these new untested individuals to spread out.  Like Tom Hanks in an airport, they may be restricted to Paragon City.  Housing quickly fills, tent cities become a necessity, and with monsters like the Vahz roaming around, that becomes a liability.  Organizations associated with control (Council, Malta, etc.) suddenly give illusionary offers of control to those who used to enjoy it under the Emperor.  What's needed are new, permanent homes, businesses, and community centers that offer a degree of protection that tents cannot, and make the situation easier to police for the PCPD and heroes.  Suddenly Faultline and Boomtown look like potential.  Maybe they don't become skyscraper cities again, but instead a mix of "multifunction buildings" (the current buzzword in my rapidly-growing region): retail and restaurants on ground floor, professional offices on second floor, and a few stories of apartments and condos above with lots of walking and biking paths, and parks between the multies.

 

7 hours ago, TheZag said:

Id be down for the construction crew to unearth an item of some importance that causes new enemy groups to descend upon the zone in a mad dash to discover what else lies beneath the rubble.

 

 

Setting aside the labor element to just focus on the concept, that would be interesting.  We know Boomtown has a deep Hero Corp connection.  What if that unknown you mentioned turns up in a hidden vault, an "evidence locker" if you will, that Hero Corp had (and possibly failed to properly notify the city).  Alternatively, "unearth" suggests deep down to me, and that suggest Oranbaga.  I occasionally mention that I feel the big O gets overused in the game, but it would be an interesting wrinkle if the vault is not of magic artifacts, but of advanced science artifacts that the CoT retains for some reason: either just to keep these things away from others, or more likely because it is of a technology so advanced that their magic has yet to unravel its secrets.  Kind of a twist on Arthur C. Clark's  advanced science perceived as magic concept.  Here, the magic is trying to decipher a science beyond it.

 

6 hours ago, Go0gleplex said:

From a civil engineering standpoint, so much of Boomtown needs to be re-vamped...those insanely tall retaining walls (which would never be built realistically). The buildings would have fallen on their own due to massive structural failures via stress at the angles many of those high-rise ruins are sitting at.  Skyway's elevated roads and walls are similar.  The original zones vs the Gold side city zones definitely high light design for game challenge vs more real world-ish simulation. 

 

Agree...more needs to be done with Boom and Fault...and the Hollows for that matter. So many wasted zones with potential.

 

I'm glad for your input.  Honestly, when I first saw Boomtown all those years ago, despite being stunned by its appearance, I was puzzled at the choice of buildings leaning against others without collapsing into massive piles of rubble.  I was in NYC hours after the first attempt to destroy the Towers back in spring of 1994 and I remember WCBS radio commenting that they were clearing everything south of Canal Street because, at the time, it was thought the Towers would topple like giant trees.  Tragically, we learned less than a decade later that they'd go straight down.  So that was why I was puzzled to see these pillars, rather than piles, mostly.

 

30 minutes ago, Snarky said:

After it blew up.

 

Point.  Two chopsticks way up. 

 

Though I'd note the first was uncontrolled by the good guys, the toxic dust cloud would be a tragic byproduct.  The hero wrecking crew though, would try to keep the situation from again spewing clouds of asbestos and other toxic products across the city again.

[Herotu]

17 hours ago, lemming said:

You have buildings that are partially fallen over, but still structurally sound enough to sit in that position for years. 

Have years gone by in the lore or are we playing at a frozen moment in time? It all seems quite static, despite some things changing.

[lemming]

7 hours ago, Herotu said:

Have years gone by in the lore or are we playing at a frozen moment in time? It all seems quite static, despite some things changing.

In the real world those wouldn't stay in place for more than a hot minute, but if you go thru the lore, those buildings have been like that for some time.  (I'd have to go back and read some of the plaques again for a more accurate timestamp)

[Scarlet Shocker]

On 6/19/2023 at 4:37 PM, lfbn said:

I really wish someone would do something with Boomtown specifically. There's absolutely not reason to go there beyond badge hunting and a couple TF missions.

It would be a massive undertaking and yet another zone that needs a bunch of new content even to get it to the standard of Faultline though. I can understand why no one wants to tackle it yet.

 

I actually disagree with this.

 

I'll try and explain. Paragon suffered a great trauma and many areas were devastated. In fact the city was so wrecked that the city governors and/or national government had to segregate the city into zones with huge concrete walls and force fields.

 

I am not at this time interested in apportioning blame or reason for those decisions...

 

BUT....

 

It's great to be able to visit a zone, to maybe grab some XP, to explore, to chill,

maybe even to RP.

 

A zone can exist, simply because it is there. No zones need a defined raison d'etre - they simply need to provide  in and out and allow players to make of them what they will.

 

Not every zone has to have stuff going on. We are so lucky that this game offers massive amounts of content and even after it shut down, more is being added.

 

Sometimes it's just cool to sit in a place that is dangerous and still come up smelling of roses.

 

 

[Snarky]

14 hours ago, Herotu said:

Have years gone by in the lore or are we playing at a frozen moment in time? It all seems quite static, despite some things changing.

I actually use this in a few of my more "self aware" character concept.

 

One is a brain in a jar sent by an alien race to investigate the space-time anomaly "bubble" that is the Paragon Praetoria event.  Unfortunately for them it is a one way trip and they received no data.  Nothing can get out.  Everything inside is frozen in a strange temporal window.  Most of the inhabitants are unaware.  "Free Guy" style.  A few are, but are unable to do much besides explore and gain power.

[JasperStone]

12 hours ago, Snarky said:

I actually use this in a few of my more "self aware" character concept.

 

One is a brain in a jar sent by an alien race to investigate the space-time anomaly "bubble" that is the Paragon Praetoria event.  Unfortunately for them it is a one way trip and they received no data.  Nothing can get out.  Everything inside is frozen in a strange temporal window.  Most of the inhabitants are unaware.  "Free Guy" style.  A few are, but are unable to do much besides explore and gain power.

[Go0gleplex]

15 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

 

A zone can exist, simply because it is there. No zones need a defined raison d'etre - they simply need to provide  in and out and allow players to make of them what they will.

 

This really exemplifies the difference between game logic and real world logic. 😉  I've been in the civil engineering profession for nearly four decades and some of the zones trip my professional mode switch which has to be beat down by it's just a game at times. lol  There is very little of the original Paragon zones that would ever be built the way it is simply due to the costs involved and fact that basic construction physics would stop a few things cold. The war walls would also be economically, environmentally, and psychologically harmful over long term with their height...but that's a different set of issues. 

 

That said; I do enjoy the game...despite the logic that Faultline has more life to it that the Hollows despite the fact the Hollows has more intact ground present despite the massive central crater...and less likely chance of catastrophic landslides occurring that would wipe out what's left of things like Faultline does. Boomtown...well...that's a massive breeding ground for all sorts of nastiness. Logically, any attacks that could do that much devastation to things would not have left any of the retaining walls intact either. But...it is also way under utilized for missions these days.  Really, outside of a few kill X # of ABC missions, in my experience lately there really aren't many reasons to go to the hazard zones outside of just wanting a change of scenery from what things used to be like. And to me, that is really sad, since as was stated, there really can be a lot to have fun with in most. 

 

On the flip side, some of the zones are so villain oriented, such as Kings with the Skulls, that after a while you go anywhere but Kings just to avoid them. The Sky Raider missions are almost as bad with the IP contacts. 

[Snarky]

1 hour ago, Go0gleplex said:

This really exemplifies the difference between game logic and real world logic. 😉  I've been in the civil engineering profession for nearly four decades and some of the zones trip my professional mode switch which has to be beat down by it's just a game at times. lol  There is very little of the original Paragon zones that would ever be built the way it is simply due to the costs involved and fact that basic construction physics would stop a few things cold. The war walls would also be economically, environmentally, and psychologically harmful over long term with their height...but that's a different set of issues. 

 

That said; I do enjoy the game...despite the logic that Faultline has more life to it that the Hollows despite the fact the Hollows has more intact ground present despite the massive central crater...and less likely chance of catastrophic landslides occurring that would wipe out what's left of things like Faultline does. Boomtown...well...that's a massive breeding ground for all sorts of nastiness. Logically, any attacks that could do that much devastation to things would not have left any of the retaining walls intact either. But...it is also way under utilized for missions these days.  Really, outside of a few kill X # of ABC missions, in my experience lately there really aren't many reasons to go to the hazard zones outside of just wanting a change of scenery from what things used to be like. And to me, that is really sad, since as was stated, there really can be a lot to have fun with in most. 

 

On the flip side, some of the zones are so villain oriented, such as Kings with the Skulls, that after a while you go anywhere but Kings just to avoid them. The Sky Raider missions are almost as bad with the IP contacts. 

I keep reading this and then looking at things / cities / hubs humans have created historically.  Which are just bat shit crazy by any logical measure.  The pyramids?   You're gonna waste resources on that in a desert?  Or anywhere?  Places people have settled.  The crazy cities that have evolved.  No logic.  None.

[srmalloy]

35 minutes ago, Snarky said:

The pyramids?   You're gonna waste resources on that in a desert?

Ahh, another victim of careful photography. The Pyramids at Giza are nowhere near as isolated as most popular photos make them out to be. The Pyramids are surrounded on three sides by the city of Giza; the Oberoi Golf Course is a few hundred feet away, as is Mena House, an upscale hotel. The classic photo of the Pyramids is shot from the south, and typically includes a broad swathe of sand in the foreground to suggest that they're deep in the desert.

[Snarky]

12 minutes ago, srmalloy said:

Ahh, another victim of careful photography. The Pyramids at Giza are nowhere near as isolated as most popular photos make them out to be. The Pyramids are surrounded on three sides by the city of Giza; the Oberoi Golf Course is a few hundred feet away, as is Mena House, an upscale hotel. The classic photo of the Pyramids is shot from the south, and typically includes a broad swathe of sand in the foreground to suggest that they're deep in the desert.

No, i fully understood they were all built right on the Nile.  Does not explain why you spend all the resources building the things.  Because, outside the Nile?  DESERT.  You could have (and they had the technology) took that effort and made farmland irrigated and less dependent on the Nile's seasonal ebbs and flows.

[Go0gleplex]

2 minutes ago, Snarky said:

No, i fully understood they were all built right on the Nile.  Does not explain why you spend all the resources building the things.  Because, outside the Nile?  DESERT.  You could have (and they had the technology) took that effort and made farmland irrigated and less dependent on the Nile's seasonal ebbs and flows.

 A lot of those isolated and/or weird structures were due to religious beliefs of the time culture. The more modern ones...well...those boil down to one of three typical reasons; 1) We're more awesome and smarter than any other country...so let's show off; 2) Politicians being idiots (as usual); 3) Either a military need or mining boom. Reasons 1 & 3 tend to be the more prevalent cause after getting reason 2 to buy off on the idea(s).   And no, they could not irrigate the desert since it would've been useless at the time...soil issues in terms of water retention & nutrients (the amount of fertilizer/mulch necessary is staggering), wind erosion/migrating dunes, and the fact that the Nile was sacred throwing a religious issue into the mix.  

 

[jprewitt73]

Well yeah, you could build something useful. Or, and I'm just spitballing here, you could building something as a giant middle finger to everyone else. I don't see a problem here. 

 

😜

[Snarky]

28 minutes ago, Go0gleplex said:

 A lot of those isolated and/or weird structures were due to religious beliefs of the time culture. The more modern ones...well...those boil down to one of three typical reasons; 1) We're more awesome and smarter than any other country...so let's show off; 2) Politicians being idiots (as usual); 3) Either a military need or mining boom. Reasons 1 & 3 tend to be the more prevalent cause after getting reason 2 to buy off on the idea(s).   And no, they could not irrigate the desert since it would've been useless at the time...soil issues in terms of water retention & nutrients (the amount of fertilizer/mulch necessary is staggering), wind erosion/migrating dunes, and the fact that the Nile was sacred throwing a religious issue into the mix.  

 

yes I seem to recall an old history lesson where it was important for the Nile to flood the areas to revitailize the soil.  We have a similar issue in America now that the Mississippi has been "tamed" and the once rich land around it is deteriorating.

 

Still, you could have spent the resources on ANYTHING besides a giant tomb lol.

[High_Beam]

1 hour ago, srmalloy said:

Ahh, another victim of careful photography. The Pyramids at Giza are nowhere near as isolated as most popular photos make them out to be. The Pyramids are surrounded on three sides by the city of Giza; the Oberoi Golf Course is a few hundred feet away, as is Mena House, an upscale hotel. The classic photo of the Pyramids is shot from the south, and typically includes a broad swathe of sand in the foreground to suggest that they're deep in the desert.

Yeah that was a shock to me as well when I visited during Desert Shield.  Also couldn't believe the amount of graffiti and soda cans inside the pyramid.  Or the children rooting around the dumpsters several hundred feet in front of the Sphinx.

[High_Beam]

1 hour ago, Snarky said:

yes I seem to recall an old history lesson where it was important for the Nile to flood the areas to revitailize the soil.  We have a similar issue in America now that the Mississippi has been "tamed" and the once rich land around it is deteriorating.

 

Still, you could have spent the resources on ANYTHING besides a giant tomb lol.

Well Davenport, Iowa always seems to flood whenever the Mississippi even coughs, so their soil must be super rich.

[Scarlet Shocker]

4 hours ago, Go0gleplex said:

This really exemplifies the difference between game logic and real world logic. 😉  I've been in the civil engineering profession for nearly four decades and some of the zones trip my professional mode switch which has to be beat down by it's just a game at times. lol  There is very little of the original Paragon zones that would ever be built the way it is simply due to the costs involved and fact that basic construction physics would stop a few things cold. The war walls would also be economically, environmentally, and psychologically harmful over long term with their height...but that's a different set of issues. 

 

That said; I do enjoy the game...despite the logic that Faultline has more life to it that the Hollows despite the fact the Hollows has more intact ground present despite the massive central crater...and less likely chance of catastrophic landslides occurring that would wipe out what's left of things like Faultline does. Boomtown...well...that's a massive breeding ground for all sorts of nastiness. Logically, any attacks that could do that much devastation to things would not have left any of the retaining walls intact either. But...it is also way under utilized for missions these days.  Really, outside of a few kill X # of ABC missions, in my experience lately there really aren't many reasons to go to the hazard zones outside of just wanting a change of scenery from what things used to be like. And to me, that is really sad, since as was stated, there really can be a lot to have fun with in most. 

 

On the flip side, some of the zones are so villain oriented, such as Kings with the Skulls, that after a while you go anywhere but Kings just to avoid them. The Sky Raider missions are almost as bad with the IP contacts. 

 

 

Are you overthinking this? If you want to put your urban civil engineering skilz to the test in a gaming environment wouldn't you better spend your time in Cities: Skylines or similar?

[Snarky]

32 minutes ago, High_Beam said:

Well Davenport, Iowa always seems to flood whenever the Mississippi even coughs, so their soil must be super rich.

i just looked at the pictures.  I am unsure it needs fertile land in the concrete jungle (swamp?) of downtown Davenport...