Secondaries: What I Don't Get

[Herotu]

Is anybody able to help me out here? I need to find a way to straighten this stuff in my mind.

 

I understand the secondaries on;

• Defenders (ranged damage, easy!) ,
• Corrupters ("Affinities", bleh! Horrible, but ye I kinda get it),* and
• ALL Melee Classes, Sentinel - damage/defence or vice versa, nice and simple!

 

... but it all starts to go awry when I try to comprehend these iffy "Manipulation" and to a lesser extent "Assault" sets.

 

My questions:

1. The reason I don't understand "Assault" sets: Am I supposed to just pick the melee OR the ranged powers, depending on whether I intend to hang around at the back or jump into melee? 
2. The reason I don't understand Manipulation sets: what is being manipulated? Is my primary set being manipulated? Am I being manipulated? Am I supposed to manipulate my enemy with these powers somehow? My instinct says it should be the primary set, via powers such as "build up" or "aim" or "power boost" or "boost range". Those all make sense. But melee abilities in "Manipulations "seem... like they aren't what it says on the tin, you know? Like the non-pet powers in Mastermind primaries.

I'm not going to suggest removing any powers, but I do like neatness. Why are melee powers in manipulation sets? Should the manipulation sets get renamed to be "Potpourri" or "Hotchpotch" or "Hot Mess" powersets instead?

 

Maybe it's OCDC** or something. Is there a way to make it all make sense without using the words "Headcanon" or "Pretend"?

 

 

 

 

 

*sometimes I like an Oxford comma, sometimes not.

**METAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL

Edited July 25, 2023 by Herotu

[Psyonico]

So, dominators, with their assault sets.  IMO you take both ranged and melee attacks.  The melee attacks do more damage than their ranged counterparts (in general) but it's only safe for a Dom in melee once things are locked down, so sometimes starting at range is a good thing.

[ZemX]

1 hour ago, Herotu said:

The reason I don't understand Manipulation sets: what is being manipulated? Is my primary set being manipulated? Am I being manipulated? Am I supposed to manipulate my enemy with these powers somehow? My instinct says it should be the primary set, via powers such as "build up" or "aim" or "power boost" or "boost range". Those all make sense. But melee abilities in "Manipulations "seem... like they aren't what it says on the tin, you know? Like the non-pet powers in Mastermind primaries.

 

You're overthinking.  The word before the "manipulation" in the powerset name isn't telling you what the powers do.  They can do various things.  It's telling you HOW they do it.   It's basically just the theme of that powerset.  I suspect they settled on naming the powersets this way because there's no other category that really describes what's in those powersets.  They not all ranged blasts, melee strikes, controls, buffs, or debuffs.  They are potentially any of those things.  The only thing tying them together is HOW they work (e.g. by manipulating atomic particles, the minds of others, or plants, to name a few).

[UltraAlt]

1 hour ago, Herotu said:

The reason I don't understand "Assault" sets: Am I supposed to just pick the melee OR the ranged powers, depending on whether I intend to hang around at the back or jump into melee? 

 

The melee powers on a ranged character are for when the enemy closes on you (for the most part).

Not all "assault" secondaries are the same (obviously).

I might get 1 or two melee attacks in a dominator secondary, but I am already fighting at a range so I tend to go with the ranged attacks.

 

1 hour ago, Herotu said:

The reason I don't understand Manipulation sets: what is being manipulated? Is my primary set being manipulated? Am I being manipulated? Am I supposed to manipulate my enemy with these powers somehow? My instinct says it should be the primary set, via powers such as "build up" or "aim" or "power boost" or "boost range". Those all make sense. But melee abilities in "Manipulations "seem... like they aren't what it says on the tin, you know? Like the non-pet powers in Mastermind primaries.

 

You are dominating/manipulating your opponents.

Perhaps named manipulation to imply the dominating so it wouldn't be confused with Domination.

 

2 hours ago, Herotu said:

Should the manipulation sets get renamed

 

Badly named? Apparently, so.

 

2 hours ago, Herotu said:

Why are melee powers in manipulation sets?

 

The dominators are a mutation of the controller archetype with blaster backup powers..

Basically, the Dominator secondary is a combination of the Primary and secondary blaster sets.

 

 

 

[Neiska]

From a building standpoint, having a mixed of ranged and melee powers can be good as it can let you slot different sets for different set bonuses. If you don't want the assault/melee I think you can always skip them, but from my personal preference and building philosophy more options are always nice to have.

[Captain Fabulous]

WAAAAAAY overthinking it. The set names are just to be able to distinguish them from similar sets of other ATs. Dominators get Assault sets, Blasters get Manipulation sets, etc. But it's just a name. Pick whichever powers in any given set you wish.

[kelika2]

I got a fire/fire tanked named Purrmahfrawst because i dont like ice armor.  everythings blue/white colored

dont get hung up on names or damage types or youll start asking what the incendiary ammo is made of coming out a pistol/fire sent

[Akisan]

On 7/25/2023 at 8:41 AM, Herotu said:

The reason I don't understand "Assault" sets: Am I supposed to just pick the melee OR the ranged powers, depending on whether I intend to hang around at the back or jump into melee? 

 

They're hybrid sets, and named to reflect that : Blast (ranged) <-> Assault (mixed) <-> Melee (hand to hand).  Which powers you pick depends on your playstyle, though having a mix of both is nice.

 

Similar with the Manipulaton sets:

Melee <-> Manipulation <-> Control

Manipulation also has some utility in it though (build-up, sustains, etc)

[biostem]

On 7/25/2023 at 10:41 AM, Herotu said:

I don't understand "Assault" sets: Am I supposed to just pick the melee OR the ranged powers, depending on whether I intend to hang around at the back or jump into melee? 

You can certainly build your characters however you like, but the idea is that, as a dominator, you lock down enemies and make them your playthings;  You may want to do your damage from range, or you may want to take the risk, (albeit lessened thanks to your control abilities), to close to melee range and deal even more damage.

 

On 7/25/2023 at 10:41 AM, Herotu said:

I don't understand Manipulation sets: what is being manipulated?

In the broadest sense, what you are "manipulating" is the element or type of ability associated with the set - fire, ice, martial arts, etc.  Those powers are there to compliment your ranged blast attacks and also to compensate for when the enemy closes in.

 

On 7/25/2023 at 10:41 AM, Herotu said:

Corrupters ("Affinities", bleh! Horrible, but ye I kinda get it),* and

A Corruptor's secondary set if buff/support.  The sets having names like "Nature Affinity" is merely there for flavor.  If you want to be more literal, it is simply an area your character happens to have a talent for.

[Clave Dark 5]

Doms are great because you can get a bit of everything, melee, ranged and control.  That's a feature not a bug!  That said, some power sets do better ranged or better melee, or can be skewed towards one or the other if you so choose via secondary pool powers, for example.