Confront pull

[Wavicle]

What if Confront did an inverse repel on the target, bringing them from afar directly to melee range?

 

Probably low mag, so wouldn't work on Bosses or Higher, but could be fun against Minions and LTs...

[Saiyajinzoningen]

doesn't taunt already force foes into melee range by disabling their long range attacks?

or is that a different game?

Sorry I'm old and I get mixed up sometimes

[Wavicle]

You’re correct, but it doesn’t always work because some mobs have such high range that even reduced to 25% they still aren’t in melee, and this would also be faster than mobs normal run speed.

[Saiyajinzoningen]

I think yanking (herding) foes around might be a little OP since most melee classes have a taunt of some sort.

I could understand a few sets having a "yoink" ability, like gravity or storm, maybe even whips?

 

Instead maybe reduce foe range even further when taunted might fix the issue?

[Wavicle]

Keep in mind, it’s only a single target ability. I’m not suggesting this for the AoE Taunt abilities.

 

And only for Scrappers and Widows, not the pool power version.

Edited September 7, 2023 by Wavicle

[Greycat]

Eh.... maybe?

 

On the other hand, you could just take Teleport Target instead of Confront... which would also open up things like combat teleport and fold space.

[biostem]

Maybe confront could be tweaked to give a variable range debuff to make the effect a bit more consistent against all enemy types, like:

 

-75% for underlings & minions

-85% for LTs & bosses

-90% for EBS, AVs, GMs & snipers

[Andreah]

On 9/7/2023 at 3:29 AM, Saiyajinzoningen said:

doesn't taunt already force foes into melee range by disabling their long range attacks?

It doesn't disable them, but it does apply a -Range debuff.

The -100 doesn't make the range zero, but does cut it in half. Also, carefully using corners and obstructions will get them to chase in close.

[Andreah]

7 hours ago, Greycat said:

Eh.... maybe?

 

On the other hand, you could just take Teleport Target instead of Confront... which would also open up things like combat teleport and fold space.

I find Teleport Target to be a fantastic long range pull. It will even aggro a couple of the nearby neighbors of the target. 

 

In addition to using corners and obstructions, any player should be able to pull ranged foes in close enough to deal with them. If you also have Combat Teleport, you can easily move around the battlespace into melee range of foes even if you're standing in caltrop or immobilized (not while fully held).

[Andreah]

2 hours ago, biostem said:

Maybe confront could be tweaked to give a variable range debuff to make the effect a bit more consistent against all enemy types, like:

 

-75% for underlings & minions

-85% for LTs & bosses

-90% for EBS, AVs, GMs & snipers

Confront already has a -Range in it, equal to Brutes. I'd argue that's just a bit too high.

 

IMO, Tanker taunt > Brute Taunt > Scrapper Confront should be a rule.

 

Tankers get -100% for 20 seconds, and Brutes have -75% for 12 seconds. Confront ought, imo, to be something like -50% for 8 seconds. 

 

Here's the COD profile for Scrapper Battleaxe Confront. (Nothing special about Battleaxe, it was just at the top of the list)

 

[Wavicle]

Here I am trying to buff Confront and you want to nerf it.

 

 Confront is already way worse than Brute or Tanker Taunt because it is single target. 

[Andreah]

49 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

 Confront is already way worse than Brute or Tanker Taunt because it is single target. 

Good point. Brute Taunt should be single-target, too.

[Rudra]

24 minutes ago, Andreah said:

1 hour ago, Wavicle said:

 Confront is already way worse than Brute or Tanker Taunt because it is single target. 

Good point. Brute Taunt should be single-target, too.

Brutes have been nerfed more than enough. Please don't take this away from them too. (Edit: Especially since the taunts and confront already work the way you say you want them to. Tankers get -100 as an AoE, Brutes get -75 as an AoE, and Scrappers get -75 as a ST.)

Edited September 8, 2023 by Rudra

[biostem]

1 hour ago, Andreah said:

Confront already has a -Range in it, equal to Brutes. I'd argue that's just a bit too high.

I have no issue with the numbers being tweaked.  My point was to address what the other poster brought up, that the -75% range isn't enough to force some enemies into melee range.

[Luminara]

Didn't we do this already with the "Confront should be replaced with Combat Teleport" thread?  Dig that up, find the arguments against it, apply here.

[Rudra]

4 hours ago, biostem said:

Maybe confront could be tweaked to give a variable range debuff to make the effect a bit more consistent against all enemy types, like:

 

-75% for underlings & minions

-85% for LTs & bosses

-90% for EBS, AVs, GMs & snipers

I just caught this, for the snipers bit, so I apologize for the late comment. No taunt ability will draw snipers over to you. Snipers have no movement ability. That's why they never reposition to keep shooting you if you duck around a corner or behind a crate. (Edit: You can drop an array of damage patches on snipers and watch them just stand there and wither away because they can't move.)

Edited September 8, 2023 by Rudra

[kelika2]

builds need skippable powers to thrive

[Wavicle]

2 hours ago, Andreah said:

Good point. Brute Taunt should be single-target, too.

No. Absolutely not. Brutes are a Tank class. AoE taunt is an essential part of their kit.

[Wavicle]

1 hour ago, Luminara said:

Didn't we do this already with the "Confront should be replaced with Combat Teleport" thread?  Dig that up, find the arguments against it, apply here.

I didn’t agree with any of those arguments there either.

[Luminara]

1 minute ago, Wavicle said:

I didn’t agree with any of those arguments there either.

 

Then I'll give you one you can agree with.

 

You're asking for the addition of a status effect to a power with a base recharge time of 3s, no endurance cost and no hit check.  In order for that status effect to function in the way you describe, it would require a variable duration based on distance (possible, but it would require extra work), from 1s to 7s (presuming the target was moved at a rate of 10'/s), and the magnitude would have to be no lower than 3.1 in order to affect bosses.

 

It couldn't go live without significant changes (endurance cost and hit check added, recharge time increased to 20+ seconds), and it couldn't be changed that drastically without causing problems for whomever currently has and uses it.

 

And that's without considering the impact such a power would have on other archetypes.  Last time I checked, controllers and dominators would sacrifice their own mothers for a control that unbalanced, and you're proposing it for scrappers.

 

[Rudra]

20 minutes ago, Luminara said:

  In order for that status effect to function in the way you describe, it would require a variable duration based on distance (possible, but it would require extra work), from 1s to 7s (presuming the target was moved at a rate of 10'/s)

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess the reason for the variable duration is because it isn't a constant effect like Singularity?

[Wavicle]

22 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

 

You're asking for the addition of a status effect to a power with a base recharge time of 3s, no endurance cost and no hit check.  In order for that status effect to function in the way you describe, it would require a variable duration based on distance (possible, but it would require extra work), from 1s to 7s (presuming the target was moved at a rate of 10'/s), and the magnitude would have to be no lower than 3.1 in order to affect bosses.

 

This is a legit point, for sure.

However, I did specify it would NOT work on bosses, so the mag would be lower than that.

I would also be happy to include an internal timer, so the Pull aspect could only be used every, say, 20 seconds. But maybe that's too finicky, I could see people feeling that way.

[Andreah]

1 minute ago, Rudra said:

... a constant effect like Singularity?

Well. Trying to be as constructive as I can, I could see a psychic power, perhaps for psionic melee or to the various themed mind/psy control & domination power sets that forced an enemy or even a group of enemies to slowly be drawn to the caster or to a point they select.

 

But not for all scrappers.

[Wavicle]

I'm really just looking for SOME way to make Confront a desirable choice.

I ABSOLUTELY disagree with the suggestion that it's good some powers are worthless for the sake of people making builds where they don't have to make any sacrifices. EVERY power should be desirable.

[Wavicle]

@Luminara

 

What if, instead of any of this reverse repel stuff, using Confront gave the Scrapper (or Widow) a minor or moderate Movement Speed buff for a few seconds?