Option to remove enhancement visual effects

[Rudra]

7 hours ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

maybe 1 per power would be far more reasonable.

How would that be implemented? The powers themselves get flags for what types of enhancements they can have, not quantity of any given one. And enhancements can only check that by being flagged as unique. Which is where @TheZag is coming from. (And given the nature of the code itself that our devs have to slog through and work with, adding a new limitation to each and every power to make this possible doesn't have good odds of feasibility.)

[Greycat]

1 minute ago, Rudra said:

Huh? Wrong thread maybe?

 

No, they're thinking nobody should/does take AOE holds. And they're wrong.

 

 

As far as the OP - as mentioned, the effects aren't "your powers." They're something added on. The tailor or whoever doesn't have any way of knowing or caring about procs and their effects, and I'd hate to see how messy the interface would have to be if that *did* get added.

[Rudra]

1 minute ago, Greycat said:

 

No, they're thinking nobody should/does take AOE holds. And they're wrong.

 

 

As far as the OP - as mentioned, the effects aren't "your powers." They're something added on. The tailor or whoever doesn't have any way of knowing or caring about procs and their effects, and I'd hate to see how messy the interface would have to be if that *did* get added.

Ah. Forgot that comment had been made. (And yeah, I agree with you. On my characters that get access to AoE Holds, I take them. I will never understand some people's aversion to perfectly functional powers.)

[biostem]

2 minutes ago, Rudra said:

I will never understand some people's aversion to perfectly functional powers

I've encountered a few players who seem to think that if a power isn't available multiple times a fight, then it isn't worth taking.  Trying to judge when best to use that power with a base 4 min recharge can be a bit too much sometimes...

[Saiyajinzoningen]

6 minutes ago, Rudra said:

How would that be implemented? The powers themselves get flags for what types of enhancements they can have, not quantity of any given one. And enhancements can only check that by being flagged as unique. Which is where @TheZag is coming from. (And given the nature of the code itself that our devs have to slog through and work with, adding a new limitation to each and every power to make this possible doesn't have good odds of feasibility.)

 

I did not say feasible I said reasonable. (from a players standpoint anyway)

 

6 minutes ago, biostem said:

I've encountered a few players who seem to think that if a power isn't available multiple times a fight, then it isn't worth taking.  Trying to judge when best to use that power with a base 4 min recharge can be a bit too much sometimes...

 

hahahah I can barely remember to hit buildup half the time. Over the years I have gotten better at "situational powers" but like all things it requires practice and one of the things i dont have much of anymore is time. 😞 

[Doomguide2005]

Another thought beyond options are usually a good thing ... I'm on my Emp/Rad running with a team in the Hollows (so lowbies) and I was exemped.  Well the Tanker was still lower than much of the party.  The animation was my first clue he didn't yet have his PB yet (or gaps in the click protection existed after a few levels).  Now obviously the foes don't, far as I know, use procs but various animations are a visual clue for your teammates that a buff or debuff is effecting a potential target which can effect a decision to use or not use one of yours.  Not as important solo but clearly a lack of visual indicator can lead to a delay or lack of a buff being used.

[arcane]

2 hours ago, biostem said:

I've encountered a few players who seem to think that if a power isn't available multiple times a fight, then it isn't worth taking.  Trying to judge when best to use that power with a base 4 min recharge can be a bit too much sometimes...

And when they think “per fight” it’s based on how long it takes to clear a single mob of council…

[Klaleara]

Well, a lot happened since the last time I checked this.

 

I'll say this, lore wise I simply don't care.  Lore wise, our planet would probably be destroyed 500x over from all the incidents at this point.

 

Part of the problem is that, to me, as a controller heavy controller, it would be foolish to NOT take the enhancement.  However, in taking it, I also lose a huge amount of what my character is.

 

Sure maybe Mr Electric made my enhancement. But than my character now seems like it's more Mr Electric than my own character.  Since I see more electrical cages than I do my own powers.  My entire characters identity is basically lost.

 

Imo, gimping myself for the purpose of keeping my characters identity seems like a bad choice gameplay wise.

 

Dev time I have no idea, it could be a 10 minute fix for all I know.  Or a 10 year one.

 

Could be as easy as copy pasting all the proc IOs, and removing the effect of each and just adding (no effect) at the end of the name.  I don't mind rebuying it.  But maybe that's impossible, and not how it works at all.  Not for me to say.

 

I also don't really care when the proc happens lol.  Just that it does proc.  But that's my opinion.

 

I had more to say, but I've got pneumonia, and my brain is kinda fried.  Maybe I'll add more later.

 

 

 

 

[Rudra]

9 minutes ago, Klaleara said:

Well, a lot happened since the last time I checked this.

 

I'll say this, lore wise I simply don't care.  Lore wise, our planet would probably be destroyed 500x over from all the incidents at this point.

 

Part of the problem is that, to me, as a controller heavy controller, it would be foolish to NOT take the enhancement.  However, in taking it, I also lose a huge amount of what my character is.

 

Sure maybe Mr Electric made my enhancement. But than my character now seems like it's more Mr Electric than my own character.  Since I see more electrical cages than I do my own powers.  My entire characters identity is basically lost.

 

Imo, gimping myself for the purpose of keeping my characters identity seems like a bad choice gameplay wise.

 

Dev time I have no idea, it could be a 10 minute fix for all I know.  Or a 10 year one.

 

Could be as easy as copy pasting all the proc IOs, and removing the effect of each and just adding (no effect) at the end of the name.  I don't mind rebuying it.  But maybe that's impossible, and not how it works at all.  Not for me to say.

 

I also don't really care when the proc happens lol.  Just that it does proc.  But that's my opinion.

 

I had more to say, but I've got pneumonia, and my brain is kinda fried.  Maybe I'll add more later.

 

 

 

 

If you don't want non-thematic powers triggering in conjunction with your powers, then don't slot the non-thematic powers into your powers. That is what those procs are, completely different powers that you can incorporate into your own attacks. And not slotting them isn't gimping your character. You can slot more damage, more accuracy, more recharge, better END management, etc. into that power if you skip the proc. You can assign that enhancement slot to another power to make it more effective. The "gimping" part is all in your head.

[arcane]

You’re not gimping yourself if you skip an itty bitty Lockdown proc, lol

[Luminara]

16 hours ago, Klaleara said:

ure maybe Mr Electric made my enhancement. But than my character now seems like it's more Mr Electric than my own character.  Since I see more electrical cages than I do my own powers.  My entire characters identity is basically lost.

 

If a couple of brief graphical effects define your entire character, the problem isn't the procs, it's you.

[Klaleara]

22 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

If a couple of brief graphical effects define your entire character, the problem isn't the procs, it's you.

 

Brief?  They are hardly brief, they last the entire fight when proceed.  And it's a 33% chance.  It happens basically every fight, as that is one of my most used powers.

 

Also it's hardly "itty bitty".  It's a huge difference since it makes it easy to lockdown an entire crowd.  Plus, it's a huge assist on boss+.

 

Glad that people are telling me my opinion is just wrong, and the issue is me.  That always gives me a warm and fuzzy about the community.

 

[Luminara]

10 minutes ago, Klaleara said:

Brief?  They are hardly brief, they last the entire fight when proceed.

 

8 seconds base duration.  7.2 versus +1 foes, 6.4 versus +2 foes, 5.2 versus +3 foes, 4.48 versus +4 foes.

 

Brief.

 

31 minutes ago, Klaleara said:

Glad that people are telling me my opinion is just wrong, and the issue is me.

 

You claimed that a single graphical effect is commandeering the whole identity of your character.  That's akin to accusing teammates of appropriating your character if they buff you, or stand near you with a buff toggle active.  That's not an opinion, it's a melodramatic exaggeration.

 

You assert that 8 seconds is too long because it lasts "the entire fight", and expound on the utility of Hold procs for dealing with bosses, the implication being that your controller is blitzing through spawns with bosses in 4.48-8 seconds (or less) and the proc's graphics are unceasing due to the insanely short duration of combat.  That's not an opinion, it's not even hyperbole, it's utter bullshit.

 

You say that the lore is irrelevant, you're more important than it is.  That is certainly an opinion.  It's also conceited and arrogant, presumptive of the notion that your whims are of such profound significance that not only should the game bend to your will, but everyone playing it, as well.

 

Nobody here is opposed to more options.  But your reasoning is specious, your replies suggest that you're narrow-minded, pretentious, stubborn and disingenuous, and when you didn't receive the universal acclaim you wanted, you threw yourself on the ground and started drawing a chalk outline.

 

Yeah, the issue does seem to be you.

 

Don't forget your chalk.

[megaericzero]

  

On 10/1/2023 at 2:08 PM, Luminara said:

You say that the lore is irrelevant, you're more important than it is.  That is certainly an opinion.  It's also conceited and arrogant, presumptive of the notion that your whims are of such profound significance that not only should the game bend to your will, but everyone playing it, as well.

 

While I don't agree with how Klaleara is arguing it, I do agree enhancements should be included in the things players have control over that affect the presentation of their character. Whether that manifests as a simple UI toggle for your own proc confirmation vfx, an extension of power customization at the tailor, or having additional options to cover more themes with equivalent proc effects, I'm game.

 

More directly to the section I quoted: there's a degree of artistic license players should be allowed to take with their characters, even in spite of the game's lore. For example, stone armor says "You can transform your skin into various forms of rock and stone" but how many people rewrite it for themself as surrounding themself with stone taken from the surrounding environment? Or writing Mu mastery as their controller/dominator's electric mastery because they don't have a normal EPP for it. Or any of the lore pets being real entities instead of reflections, which power customization even helps with.

Conceited, arrogant, presumptive? Sure maybe but no harm, no foul.

[Rudra]

8 minutes ago, megaericzero said:

  

 

While I don't agree with how Klaleara is arguing it, I do agree enhancements should be included in the things players have control over that affect the presentation of their character. Whether that manifests as a simple UI toggle for your own proc confirmation vfx, an extension of power customization at the tailor, or having additional options to cover more themes with equivalent proc effects, I'm game.

 

More directly to the section I quoted: there's a degree of artistic license players should be allowed to take with their characters, even in spite of the game's lore. For example, stone armor says "You can transform your skin into various forms of rock and stone" but how many people rewrite it for themself as surrounding themself with stone taken from the surrounding environment? Or writing Mu mastery as their controller/dominator's electric mastery because they don't have a normal EPP for it. Or any of the lore pets being real entities instead of reflections, which power customization even helps with.

Conceited, arrogant, presumptive? Sure maybe but no harm, no foul.

The differences between your argument and the OP's starting with your examples:

 

9 minutes ago, megaericzero said:

You can transform your skin into various forms of rock and stone" but how many people rewrite it for themself as surrounding themself with stone taken from the surrounding environment?

You are still covering yourself in stone.

 

10 minutes ago, megaericzero said:

Or writing Mu mastery as their controller/dominator's electric mastery because they don't have a normal EPP for it.

You are still using electric abilities as electric abilities.

 

10 minutes ago, megaericzero said:

Or any of the lore pets being real entities instead of reflections

You are still summoning entities, regardless of real, echo, or reflection.

 

Now contrast that to the OP's request: The OP wants to take a supplemental power, in the author's example, an electric cage, add that totally separate power to one of his/her/their own powers, and not have that added power visually trigger. Whether the author goes to the market and buys the supplemental power (AH/Black Market) or acquires the recipe and material to build the supplemental power, the character is still using a power that does not belong to the character. It is a purchased or crafted power that the character equips to fire alongside his/her/their/its own actual powers. So imagine this, you go to a store and buy or you go to your lab and build a mini-flamethrower. You attach that mini-flamethrower to your assault rifle and link it to the trigger. And now you start to complain that your targets are catching fire when you shoot them. Does that sound sensible to you?

 

Unlike primary powers, secondary powers, pool powers, and epic/ancillary/patron powers, these are not powers that the character learns or develops. They aren't new powers that they trigger whenever they want (as long as they have recharged and they have the END for it). They are powers they crafted or bought and set up to fire alongside their own powers. Powers they got from another source that actually created the powers that the character is choosing to equip to their own powers. Kind of like turning to the devs and saying "Could you take away the weapons from my War Mace or Titan Weapons set? It doesn't fit my character's theme." Or "Can you remove the arrows from the Archery set? The arrows clash with my character's theme." (Now bear in mind, I'm all for things like elemental arrows, phantasmal arrows, and other options being added, but I'm talking about taking away all arrows in this example.) Well, if the power(s) don't fit your character theme, then use whatever other set/power(s) actually fits your character's theme. If the power effect doesn't fit your character? Then don't slot the power into your character's powers.

[megaericzero]

On 10/6/2023 at 12:51 PM, Rudra said:

The differences between your argument and the OP's starting with your examples: [...]

Oh I get that. Those were intentionally minor examples of people overwriting the game's established lore for their own character concepts, in response to Luminara. What I agree with Klaleara on is the sentiment (I assume) of being able to slot chances to [damage/debuff/mez] without having to live with hyper-specific vfx that I don't want as part of my character's theme.

 

On 10/6/2023 at 12:51 PM, Rudra said:

So imagine this, you go to a store and buy or you go to your lab and build a mini-flamethrower. You attach that mini-flamethrower to your assault rifle and link it to the trigger. And now you start to complain that your targets are catching fire when you shoot them. Does that sound sensible to you?

 

No, I understand. What I'd like is either more visual options or the ability to opt for more generic/subtle ones for myself so I can have a hypothetical cryo ray or taser gun attachment instead. (Damage isn't necessarily a concern to me, personally, as those effects are already subtle and generic. A little bit of fire, sparks, or chill don't jump out much. It seems to be the hold proc chiefly that has a big, hard to ignore tesla cage visual?)

 

Epic pools often have a power(s) in their patterns that is offered in different themes - like tankers having options for a single-target hold in fire, ice, and stone flavors. Having alternative proc options with different vfx seemed like a good idea but, as TheZag pointed out, we couldn't do that without having them be uniques in the current system anyway because otherwise there will be people who stack all versions of the proc.

 

The OP and thread title do suggest an option to turn off the vfx - not removing it for everyone outright. If other people's proc confirmation visuals are still critical for gameplay, then the option could be generic fx instead of just turned completely off.

 

And, just to be silly:

On 10/6/2023 at 12:51 PM, Rudra said:

Kind of like turning to the devs and saying "Could you take away the weapons from my War Mace or Titan Weapons set? It doesn't fit my character's theme."

 

Yup.

(For context, it's a dual blades option in Monster Hunter that has no weapon model, so your character looks like they're flailing their fists instead. Don't take this as a serious response.)

[Rudra]

17 minutes ago, megaericzero said:

Epic pools often have a power(s) in their patterns that is offered in different themes - like tankers having options for a single-target hold in fire, ice, and stone flavors.

Right, except for 2 things. First, those are all separate powers in separate power sets, not a single power that gives the option of fire, ice, or stone from a single set. Second, those are still powers of the character, not acquired improvements and powers provided by another entity, which are what enhancements are.

 

17 minutes ago, megaericzero said:

Having alternative proc options with different vfx seemed like a good idea but, as TheZag pointed out, we couldn't do that without having them be uniques in the current system anyway because otherwise there will be people who stack all versions of the proc.

Alternative sets with different themes would have been fine in my book, but the being able to slot those different procs from different sets into a single power is a problem, and one I can't think of a viable solution for.

 

17 minutes ago, megaericzero said:

The OP and thread title do suggest an option to turn off the vfx - not removing it for everyone outright. If other people's proc confirmation visuals are still critical for gameplay, then the option could be generic fx instead of just turned completely off.

I am probably in the minority on this, but with both enhancements and temporary powers, I am against this proposal. The enhancements and the temporary powers are not our characters' abilities. They are third party provided items our characters can use. Sure, we can craft them, but all our characters are doing is taking someone else's creation's blueprint, and assembling the item according to the blueprint. Or going to the store (P2W/T2V or AH/BM) and buying the already built merchandise. More versions of merchandise for our characters to buy? Sure, I'm for it. Making the effects of the merchandise we buy go away? Not so much. (Edit: Thing is, we have pretty much full customization control over our characters. I'm for more options for that, but we already have full control over our characters. And the procs? Are not needed on anyone's build no matter how hard they try to convince themselves otherwise. A player's character's identity is being subsumed by a slotted proc? Buy an enhancement unslotter, remove the proc, and throw it on the AH. Put a different enhancement into the power to make it more capable or place that slot in another power that can use the enhancement. The proc fixation is exactly that, a fixation, not a need.)

 

17 minutes ago, megaericzero said:

And, just to be silly:

On 10/6/2023 at 1:51 PM, Rudra said:

Kind of like turning to the devs and saying "Could you take away the weapons from my War Mace or Titan Weapons set? It doesn't fit my character's theme."

 

Yup.

(For context, it's a dual blades option in Monster Hunter that has no weapon model, so your character looks like they're flailing their fists instead. Don't take this as a serious response.)

Yep. I agree. Totally silly.

Edited October 10, 2023 by Rudra

[megaericzero]

5 hours ago, Rudra said:

I am probably in the minority on this, but with both enhancements and temporary powers, I am against this proposal. The enhancements and the temporary powers are not our characters' abilities. They are third party provided items our characters can use.

 

Minority or majority, your stance makes perfect sense. I agree with you on temp powers but not for lore reasons; I see people talking about keeping some stocked like pistols or knives because they want those as part of their characters. I think those should have dedicated pools or epics for all archetypes instead of having to fill the gap with temp powers in the first place. (I can also agree with accolades as the passives don't have any visual impact while the only click with any overt visual is the crey pistol whose effectiveness, to me at least, was always underwhelming anyway.)

 

5 hours ago, Rudra said:

Thing is, we have pretty much full customization control over our characters. I'm for more options for that, but we already have full control over our characters.

 

The most important thing to me in COH has always been having full control of your character's presentation. "Equipment" didn't affect your appearance. Power sets may flavor how you do your job but your archetype decided what that is first; you're doing DPS, CCs, de/buffs, or tanking regardless of it being fire, gravity, radiation, gadgets, or sheer willpower; regardless of your size or shape or outfit. Enhancements (being parallel to equipment) in a pre-IO world didn't affect your powers' appearance - if only because procs didn't exist - and I think that should have carried over into the post-IO one, regardless of lore. Even if that was in the form of displaying generic mez vfx instead of specifically-themed ones.

 

6 hours ago, Rudra said:

And the procs? Are not needed on anyone's build no matter how hard they try to convince themselves otherwise. A player's character's identity is being subsumed by a slotted proc? Buy an enhancement unslotter, remove the proc, and throw it on the AH. Put a different enhancement into the power to make it more capable or place that slot in another power that can use the enhancement. The proc fixation is exactly that, a fixation, not a need.)

 

Sure, this suggestion isn't a need - there's really not anything we need in-game anymore that isn't already added unless it's too impractical to implement given resource constraints. At this point, nearly all suggestions are just things we'd want. OP did even suggest it as an option, so anyone who wants the effects to stay for themselves can keep them.

 

8 hours ago, Rudra said:

Yep. I agree. Totally silly.

 

I'm a Rule of Cool / Rule of Funny kind of guy. I'll take more funny power/weapon customizations any time. 😛

[Rudra]

7 hours ago, megaericzero said:

I see people talking about keeping some stocked like pistols or knives because they want those as part of their characters. I think those should have dedicated pools or epics for all archetypes instead of having to fill the gap with temp powers in the first place.

Agreed. Would nice to have a Bow and Arrow power pool, Sidearm (Pistol) power pool, and a Knives power pool (that included melee and thrown) so characters that don't get those attacks as part of their AT but should have them as back up weapons or what have you can have them.

[Rudra]

I was going to edit my previous response to address this part, but you reacted to it so making a new post.

 

8 hours ago, megaericzero said:

Even if that was in the form of displaying generic mez vfx instead of specifically-themed ones.

Here's the thing about the OP: The game has to choose one animation to use because the animations are not designed to be used concurrently. Because that would entail a whole slew of additional animations for how the existing animations might work together. For every animation that might override another. (Edit: And the proc effects are what seem to have the priority so players can see their procs are actually working, rather than not having an indication and the players reporting the procs as bugged for doing nothing.) So even if the procs used generic vfx? I'm more than willing to bet the author would still write the OP because it is not a gravity effect. It doesn't matter what vfx were or are used for procs, because the vfx aren't going to universally match what any given player is looking for in the way of effects. And in some cases? Using a generic effect would be even more frustrating for players than the themed ones. At least with the themed ones, players that want a theme can plan for the theme with the procs. With generic ones? That goes right out the window.

 

Edited October 10, 2023 by Rudra
Edited yet again to fold the two previous edits into one, and change the "Edit again" to simply "Edit".