Kinetic Melee needs some love

[shaggy]

I think it's largely agreed to be one of the weaker melee sets because of its low DPA later powers, as well as Power Siphon just being a weird buff that takes too long to stack up. Any chance we might get some buffs to see it in line with other powersets?

Edited September 28, 2023 by shaggy

[Snarky]

No

[MoonSheep]

Whiff Melee does need quite a buff

[nihilii]

4 hours ago, Snarky said:

Yes

 

[Without_Pause]

I feel like Kin compares closest in terms of powers to Claws, so I went and did a straight DPS comparison between them. Claws simply won out from any standpoint I could find. FU/PS where not factored in as it would only make it worse for Kin. Since I have been leveling a BA/stone Brute as of late, here's another example of just how far behind Kin is.

 

Cleave

Arcana Time: 2.508. DPA: 68.848. Recharge 15 seconds.

 

Concentrated Strike

Arcana Time: 3.036. DPA.  73.359. Recharge: 20 seconds.

 

Note, these are Scrapper numbers. Cleave can crit. CS just gives the ability to add another stack of a +7.5% ToHit buff. If you cycle that attack alone over time, Cleave runs away with damage and that's without crits.

 

And yes:

Focus

Arcana Time: 1.32. DPA:  65.122. Recharge: 6.4.

 

Note the recharge. And it's ranged. And can be part of a three power attack chain.

 

"But Kin has a similar power."

 

Focused Burst

Arcana Time: 2.244. DPA:  45.722. Recharge: 8.

 

FU for crying out loud has rather close DPA to Quick Strike. FU can be part of an attack chain and stacks +10% ToHit and +37.5% Damage. Power Siphon is an absolute albatross on that set. It literally does nothing better than FU. PS's recharge time is 2 minutes? WHAT.THE. HELL? You basically have to wait until CS so you can get that time down to 20 seconds. FU's base recharge is 12. Kin is so terrible overall one could argue PS needs as a base a +40% Damage bonus added to it. 

[shaggy]

4 hours ago, Without_Pause said:

I feel like Kin compares closest in terms of powers to Claws, so I went and did a straight DPS comparison between them. Claws simply won out from any standpoint I could find. FU/PS where not factored in as it would only make it worse for Kin. Since I have been leveling a BA/stone Brute as of late, here's another example of just how far behind Kin is.

 

The real sad part about all of this is that it's been known for a loooong time just how bad Kinetic Melee is. The devs did a feedback post back in 2021 where it was universally agreed to be a crappy powerset, and many people gave great suggestions about how to fix it. Here we are two years later and there have been no buffs. I REALLY hope the devs are listening cause it's been due some number changes for a really long time, and the patches are few and far between.

[Without_Pause]

13 minutes ago, shaggy said:

 

The real sad part about all of this is that it's been known for a loooong time just how bad Kinetic Melee is. The devs did a feedback post back in 2021 where it was universally agreed to be a crappy powerset, and many people gave great suggestions about how to fix it. Here we are two years later and there have been no buffs. I REALLY hope the devs are listening cause it's been due some number changes for a really long time, and the patches are few and far between.

And it would at least make sense if there was some sort of formula which sets are based on. This way if someone wanted a quick high DPS set they could get that. If they wanted something slower but more burst damage they could get that as well. What I have learned is that no real attempt has been made to balance the sets from the start via any real formula, and Kin isn't even an original set.

[carroto]

I looked at Kinetic Melee vs. Battle Axe in terms of DPSA of powers and attack chains.  First DSPA ( +Arcanatime and recharge)

 

Kinetic Melee
-----------------
Body Blow                 :   54.98    ( 1.32 s)      5
Quick Strike              :   49.76    ( 1.06 s)      3
Smashing Blow             :   63.77    ( 1.45 s)      7
Repulsing Torrent         :   30.67    ( 2.24 s)     12
Burst                     :   26.93    ( 2.90 s)     15
Focused Burst             :   45.72    ( 2.24 s)      8
Conc. Strike              :   73.36    ( 3.04 s)     20

Battle Axe
-----------------
Beheader                  :   52.66    ( 1.19 s)      4
Chop                      :   70.66    ( 1.45 s)      8
Gash                      :   84.45    ( 1.45 s)     10
Pendulum                  :   37.53    ( 2.24 s)     15
Swoop                     :   98.24    ( 1.45 s)     12
Axe Cyclone               :   31.60    ( 1.98 s)     18
Cleave                    :   68.85    ( 2.51 s)     15

 

Then I looked at a single-target attack chain for a build with highish (but not extreme) recharge.  300% (base + global + slotted).

 

Kinetic Melee: CS -> SB -> BB -> QS -> SB -> BB -> Pause (0.0666666666666682)
62.41532568366083 DPSA over 9.70266666666667 seconds

Battle Axe: Cleave -> Swoop -> Gash -> Chop -> Pause (0.6440000000000001)
71.9940463505594 DPSA over 7.508 seconds
 

I can't promise that these are the absolute optimal attack chains for these parameters but I tried.  Suggestions are welcome.

 

[Saiyajinzoningen]

If KM siphoned speed as well as damage it would help I think

[Scarlet Shocker]

KM is one of the few melee sets I love. It is slow, and perhaps it doesn't pump out damage that some sets do, but it does give the impression of doing serious thumpage. I love the look and feel of it on my tank, even if I'm not an expert on tank attacks.

 

 

[drbuzzard]

I have tried starting KM characters before, but deleted them once I got a good look at the numbers. If it doesn't get buffed, perhaps just a name change to gentle melee. 

[Without_Pause]

13 hours ago, carroto said:

I looked at Kinetic Melee vs. Battle Axe in terms of DPSA of powers and attack chains.  First DSPA ( +Arcanatime and recharge)

 

Kinetic Melee
-----------------
Body Blow                 :   54.98    ( 1.32 s)      5
Quick Strike              :   49.76    ( 1.06 s)      3
Smashing Blow             :   63.77    ( 1.45 s)      7
Repulsing Torrent         :   30.67    ( 2.24 s)     12
Burst                     :   26.93    ( 2.90 s)     15
Focused Burst             :   45.72    ( 2.24 s)      8
Conc. Strike              :   73.36    ( 3.04 s)     20

Battle Axe
-----------------
Beheader                  :   52.66    ( 1.19 s)      4
Chop                      :   70.66    ( 1.45 s)      8
Gash                      :   84.45    ( 1.45 s)     10
Pendulum                  :   37.53    ( 2.24 s)     15
Swoop                     :   98.24    ( 1.45 s)     12
Axe Cyclone               :   31.60    ( 1.98 s)     18
Cleave                    :   68.85    ( 2.51 s)     15

 

Then I looked at a single-target attack chain for a build with highish (but not extreme) recharge.  300% (base + global + slotted).

 

Kinetic Melee: CS -> SB -> BB -> QS -> SB -> BB -> Pause (0.0666666666666682)
62.41532568366083 DPSA over 9.70266666666667 seconds

Battle Axe: Cleave -> Swoop -> Gash -> Chop -> Pause (0.6440000000000001)
71.9940463505594 DPSA over 7.508 seconds
 

I can't promise that these are the absolute optimal attack chains for these parameters but I tried.  Suggestions are welcome.

 

In short, more damage in less time and with a smaller gap to have the attack chain repeatable. It also doesn't factor in BU versus PS nor Cleave being able to crit. Kin's third best DPA is its T1. And then we talk about AoE. 😆

[honoroit]

8 hours ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

If KM siphoned speed as well as damage it would help I think

 

the tsoo version'ish, well what they do on some of them, siphons a lot. same with those ninjas in the summer block buster arena.

 

yes, would be nice if built into some, but i think they actually siphon speed (as a power).

 

Figs - kinetic melee specialist

[biostem]

8 hours ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

If KM siphoned speed as well as damage it would help I think

What would be great is if all KM attacks had a passive chance at siphoning strength and/or speed from the target at all times, and power siphon simply bumped that up to 100% for its duration, instead.

[Ghost]

Something HAS to be the worst 😈

[Snarky]

you asked for it....