Focused Feedback: Various Power Updates

[Argentae]

26 minutes ago, Mezmera said:

 

The old old version was broken.  When it was 16 targets and would instantly hold everything coming at you with no accuracy checks needed it kind of made the case for why even take some of the other nice aoe controls in the set.  Before they changed Mass Confusion to make it a much longer recharge and TK you could get by on taking a very few specific OP powers.  So yeah I understand why the oldest version of TK is the most popular.  

 

This change doesn't go far enough to make it useful in the kit of Mind Control imo.  

That's fair, but the end cost should have been reduced when they dropped it from 16 to 5. 

And instantly holding 16 mobs is a pretty major exaggeration. It was often made quite difficult by the small AOE and the spread effect as they moved away from you. With practice you could sweep them up, but it's not like it was a push-button-I-win kind of power. 

I agree about the change though. 🙂 

[brass_eagle]

3 hours ago, Argentae said:

blurb..

 

The new TK could fill that slot, but the recharge being set to 2 minutes and the end cost still being 3.12 end per second makes it useless as an every spawn power. 

 

...blurb

 

This is the crux of the problem I have with the power on test. I have been playing with a Mind/Traps on test. I absolutely adore the new functionality even if it's a little redundant at higher end. Sometimes the high end cost is manageable--it's the equivalent to spamming a Fire Cages every 5 seconds but those effects last for some time and do damage. But it feels very high. The recharge is a bit unfair. Mind lacks an every spawn power (in battle) besides Terrify. Mass Hypnosis is great, but once the fight start, your tools are very, very limited if Total Dom or Mass Confuse isn't up / miss, both have terrible accuracy. Total Dom doesn't last too long. Some controllers skip their AoE hold. With mind, that's often not an option due to lack of battlefield control.

 

I'd like to see it drop down to 1 minute again. Other control sets have "every spawn themed powers".. earthquake, Ice Slick (CDs of 90s). With telekinesis you spend a lot more endurance for a non-lasting effect. And still have a long recharge.

[Legion of One]

Will Sonic Resonance/Liquefy become customizable?  Its colour can't currently be changed.

[DreadShinobi]

On 11/22/2023 at 8:46 AM, The Curator said:

Cold Domination

This powerset has been using incorrect values for non-Defender archetypes on two key powers, inadvertently boosting its performance beyond what was intended. 

• Sleet
  • Controller/Corruptor: -Res lowered from -30% to -22.5%
  • Mastermind/Dominator: -Res lowered from -30% to -22.5% 
• Freezing Rain
  • Defender: -Res increased from -35% to -40%

 

• Thunder Strike consistency pass (All versions):
  • Recharge increased from 18s to 20s
  • Radius increased from 7' to 10'
  • Endurance cost increased from 10.192 to 18.512
  • Cast time reduced from 3.3s to 2.53s
  • Main target damage increased from scale 2.38 to scale 2.98
  • Secondary target damage set to scale 0.42
  • Epic versions of this power has 40s cooldown and 23.14 endurance cost

 

 

Sooo, I am actually really confused about why Sleet is now worse than Freezing Rain. Sleet was originally a villain only power later ported to defenders. Here, the base value of sleet is being adjusted down from the recipient of powerset proliferation. Sleet was originally 30% on corruptors and if the overall direction of power balancing is consistency then the incorrect numbers for Sleet are Defenders not receiving higher debuff modifiers when it was ported to them... unless your reasoning is different, then freezing rain should also be nerfed here for corruptors/controllers/masterminds, and not buffed for defenders. This is strictly a sleet nerf, not fixing incorrect values.

 

I hope to see more patch notes that look like the thunderstrike consistency pass. HC patches have introduced so many inconsistencies (especially in regards to animation times) where powers with the same name can perform wildly different based on what powerset or archetype they belong to, which was much less common pre homecoming.

Edited January 22 by DreadShinobi

[DreadShinobi]

On 11/22/2023 at 8:46 AM, The Curator said:

 

• Thermal Radiation/Melt Armor:
  • Recharge reduced from 150s to 100s
  • Radius increased from 15' to 20'

 

Still seems like this power should do some minor fire damage over time. 

 

On 11/22/2023 at 8:46 AM, The Curator said:

Frostwork, while a unique power, often loses effectiveness in cases where allies are already at their maximum HP cap, rendering the power wasted. Hitting the absorb cap is a significantly rarer event, making it a potentially more useful buff effect.

Frostwork

• +Max HP replaced with +Absorb

 

The problem with Frostwork is that it is a wildly varying massively overkill amount of +max hp, but not that +Max HP wasn't a desired ally buff. So why not keep 25% of the original value of the +Max HP buff and lower the new absorb amount a smidge? Now you get to keep a relevant HP buff in the game and give a very monotone power something new and active to do.

[Frosticus]

Dominator Telekinesis

 

No longer benefits from domination?

[Kai Moon]

	-Res	-Def	-Rech	-Run, -Jump
Defender Freezing Rain	35→40%	30%	50%	70%
Defender Sleet	30%	30%	40%	50→40%
Mastermind Freezing Rain	30%	30→18%	40%	50→56%
Mastermind Sleet	30→22.5%	30→18%	40→32%	50→32%

First, the patch notes don't say Sleet's run and jump speed debuffs were supposed to be lowered from 50% to 40%. Was this inadvertent?

 

Second, although Defender Sleet's numbers have always been worse than Defender Freezing Rain's, that was because Issue 6 copypasted the weaker Controller version of Freezing Rain to Sleet for Corruptors (which was fine), then Issue 12 copypasted Sleet back to Defenders without giving it better stats (which was not fine).

 

The Page 7 changes would extend the weirdness of Sleet being strictly worse than Freezing Rain, apples-to-apples, for all archetypes.

 

To avoid that, you could make Freezing Rain better at resist debuffs, Sleet better at something else. Slows or end cost perhaps. Or you could make Sleet equal to Freezing Rain, as it was for all ATs except defenders.

Edited January 22 by Kai Moon

[arcane]

Sleet can afford to be lesser than Freezing Rain. Cold Domination is the single most in demand powerset in the game, and this won’t change that.

[Seldom]

I'm not sure if this is the correct place to bring this up, but it's a bit odd to me that Cold Domination's 'Frostwork' is being changed to "absorb", but empathy's 'Absorb pain' is still a largely wasted giant heal with a debuff to the caster that could arguably use this sort of transition far more.

Absorb pain is often a skipped power, its effect often redundant to heal other due to the crossover of both being a targeted high heal. Changing absorb pain's heal to an absorb would only be a buff, unless I'm completely misunderstanding the interaction. On a nearly dead ally it would still be a heal, but with the absorb effect anything usually 'wasted' could be applied for some additional protection. This could be done without changing any existing slotting.

Edited January 22 by Seldom

[Wravis]

On 11/22/2023 at 11:46 AM, The Curator said:

• Sonic Resonance/Liquefy:
  • Cooldown reduced from 300s to 150s
  • Turned into a real pseudopet, inheriting AT modifiers

Sonic still needs help. Making Liquefy usable is a good step, but it still needs help. Clarity and Sonic Dispersion need to be combined, since Faraday Cage is better than both of those powers combined and having an AOE toggle that does the bulk of what Clarity does makes it a pretty useless choice.

And Sonic Repulsion costs 1.04 end per second for essentially the same function as Repulsion Field from Force Field which only costs .78 end per second.

[Kaballah]

Since Mind Control is getting re-evaluated (excellent change to Telekinesis!), this would be a good time to get some parity between Mass Confusion and Seeds of Confusion.

[Pazta]

On 11/22/2023 at 9:46 AM, The Curator said:

Various Power Updates

 

"Cancel On Damage" Flag

• Effects flagged to cancel when damaged will now properly cancel. This affects both player and critter powers, most notably:
  • Placate power's Hidden status and stealth effects

This is a pretty substantial indirect nerf to the Stalker's Guile: Recharge/Chance to Hide proc, and also indirectly hurts Placate powers, the latter of which are already unpopular due to how easy they are to get knocked out of, even by the enemy you're targeting with it. I suggest the proc and Placates lose their "Cancel On Damage" Flag, for the 'Hidden' portion of the effect, especially if Placate is expected to be used aggressively on the new SoAs.

[High_Beam]

On 11/22/2023 at 11:46 AM, The Curator said:

Atomic Manipulation:

• No longer accepts to-hit debuff/accurate to-hit debuff enhancements and sets.

 

Across the board?  Please don't say across the board as in also removed from Beta Decay.

 

I know that you all noted in the notes that Positron Cell (referred to as Proton Cell in the notes) was just mis-identified.  But right now it still says -ToHit on Beta Decay.

Edited January 22 by High_Beam
Spelling

[arcane]

2 hours ago, Kaballah said:

Since Mind Control is getting re-evaluated (excellent change to Telekinesis!), this would be a good time to get some parity between Mass Confusion and Seeds of Confusion.

I agree; no time like the present to nerf Seeds.

[Renatos1023]

18 hours ago, DreadShinobi said:

On 11/22/2023 at 11:46 AM, The Curator said:

 

• Thermal Radiation/Melt Armor:
  • Recharge reduced from 150s to 100s
  • Radius increased from 15' to 20'

 

Still seems like this power should do some minor fire damage over time.

 

I agree it needs something more, but I'm not sure what. I think I'm spoiled by the auto-hit nature of Sleet/FR and can't get over the fact that this T9, which has less debuffs than the other 2 powers, needs a to-hit check. I do think they should drop it down to an even 90 second recharge though. Maybe if this was a targeted AoE, and pulsed - therefore having multiple chances to affect targets - would make it a little more unique.

 

5 hours ago, Wravis said:

On 11/22/2023 at 11:46 AM, The Curator said:

• Sonic Resonance/Liquefy:
  • Cooldown reduced from 300s to 150s
  • Turned into a real pseudopet, inheriting AT modifiers

Sonic still needs help. Making Liquefy usable is a good step, but it still needs help. Clarity and Sonic Dispersion need to be combined, since Faraday Cage is better than both of those powers combined and having an AOE toggle that does the bulk of what Clarity does makes it a pretty useless choice.

And Sonic Repulsion costs 1.04 end per second for essentially the same function as Repulsion Field from Force Field which only costs .78 end per second.

I am very happy to see this recharge halved! I can't wait for this to go live so I can dust off my Sonic/Seismic defender and see how much it affects QoL. 

 

I do agree though that Clarity has no place in a set that has Sonic Dispersion, it really makes no sense. Sonic should be king of -res, so maybe a moderate recharge cone that does -25% res to all or something (Disorienting Screech, -res and mag 2 disorient --- similar to Fearsome Stare but -res + disorient instead of -to-hit + fear). 

[WindDemon21]

On 11/22/2023 at 11:46 AM, The Curator said:

Chain Lightning:

• Chain decay per jump is 0.18, down from 0.20
• Chain decay caps at 0.64, up from 0.60
• Chain fork is now 1,1,1,1,2 instead of 2,2
• Sentinel fork is now 1,1,2 instead of 2,2
• Chain delay is now 0.3, up from 0.2
• Chain radius is now 10', down from 15'
• Damage scale now 1 and 0.04x4 over 2.2s, up from 0.827 and 0.10x4 over 2.2s
• Recharge 16s, down from 20s
• Accuracy improved to 1.15, up from 1.0

don't  forget to lower the end cost as well. Especially given that the power won't proc pretty much at all which already puts it far behind other aoes, but also especially given that it can miss half or all of the mob if it misses the first target or chains the wrong way which other aoes don't deal with either. There is also no reason to lower the radius of the chains. The power already has enough issues chaining as I just mentioned, it doesn't need this to be worse.

 

On 11/22/2023 at 11:46 AM, The Curator said:

Proc Chances:

• Gust now has 35% chance, up from 20%
• Hailstones/Jetstream now has 50% chance, up from 40%
• Chain Lightning/Direct Strike/Cloudburst now has 70% chance, up from 60%
• Direct Strike (slow) now has 90% chance, up from 80%.

This is also a big issue. Even with the small changes to cell/c5 it's still not enough. Even with 100% proc chances on every attack, given cast time, needing to use only storm powers to proc them etc, the power still falls behind even just a standard rain power and only surpasses it when there are 2 targets. The new changes may up that to 3 targets but there is still a slew of other issues regarding that. The main problem here too is, the proc rates should be the same between all powers, having you priorities the actual damage of the attack itself, or the faster cast but lower damage of a power like gust in order to try to get more procs out of cell and c5.

 

On 11/22/2023 at 11:46 AM, The Curator said:

Frostwork

• +Max HP replaced with +Absorb

 

This still ends up being really odd for the power. Good step realizing it needs fixed, but this power should definitely be a pbaoe power and not odd recharge/value/duration that it has . The max hp was bad, really bad for most teammates, but I wouldnt mind it if instead of absorb, I've always suggested keep the max hp but add regen to the power as a pbaoe. Would go a far way to help the power and also help the big issue the set has of self-survival.

On 11/22/2023 at 11:46 AM, The Curator said:

Thermal Radiation/Melt Armor:

• Recharge reduced from 150s to 100s
• Radius increased from 15' to 20'

This needed this badly, don't forget to adjust the epic versions as well.

 

On 11/22/2023 at 11:46 AM, The Curator said:

Mind Control/Telekinesis:

• No longer holds
• Now Immobilizes
• Target cap increased to 16
• Radius increased to 20'
• Will now keep the targets between 40 and 60 feet from the player
• Will group enemies close to the main target (i.e. "reverse repel" or "pull towards").
• Toggle now lasts a max of 30s before auto-shutdown

This is good to have it get updated but this revamp really falls short. In general any auto-shut off toggles are just bad, but to have the issue with the recharge, end cost etc. This power should just be a regular aoe immobilize that offers -resistance instead of damage, so it won't wake up sleeping enemies but still allow for "damage" and containment. The -resist value wouldn't have to be huge maybe 10% but something to help it not having damage.

 

On 11/22/2023 at 11:46 AM, The Curator said:

Nature Affinity/Lifegiving Spores:

• Turned into a real pseudopet, inheriting AT modifiers

This power just needs plain fixed altogether. It's seriously trash. The cast time, radius, the fact that it's a toggle, the fact that it gets mezzed off, and especially the actual values it gives on a terrible 4 second proc rate. The power should just be a location click not toggle, with a 25ft radius, and proc rate at least halved to 2 seconds if not 1 second. It should be every 1 second as is now but if it was better as a location click with bigger radius 2 seconds would be acceptable enough.

 

While at it wild bastion also really needs adjusted. For just a big heal, the 4 minute recharge is way out of line. It can be nice in a pinch, but also end up doing almost nothing if/where it's really "needed". For one the absorb should be what's on the tic over time, with the heal up front, which would go a long way to helping the power more, but the recharge is the biggest issue, which if that part were fixed, and given the set as a whole, while the power based on it's heal/absorb values should be on about a 60s timer, if the heal/absorb were swapped and given the set as a whole I could see a 90, or maybe 120s recharge max, but certainly not 4 minutes, it's quite absurd.

On 11/22/2023 at 11:46 AM, The Curator said:

Thunder Strike consistency pass (All versions):

• Recharge increased from 18s to 20s
• Radius increased from 7' to 10'
• Endurance cost increased from 10.192 to 18.512
• Cast time reduced from 3.3s to 2.53s
• Main target damage increased from scale 2.38 to scale 2.98
• Secondary target damage set to scale 0.42
• Epic versions of this power has 40s cooldown and 23.14 endurance cost

Don't forget to make all versions .67 mag knockback as well so it's inherently knockdown. Generally all KD power shoudl be much lower so they don't stack, but at least the .67 mag in this situation means someone could slot for kb if they wanted it to be kb instead of KD, but it should be innately KD like the melee versions.

[BrandX]

On 1/20/2024 at 10:43 AM, arcane said:

I think Colds have enough going for them that Frostwork didn’t need a buff. Seems a little insane to look at the 4* meta, notice half of every team is Colds, and still want to tune up Colds.

 

I understand that thought, but at the same time, did they take Frostwork?  If they didn't take it before and think it's such a great power, they have to either lose a power now and possibly find slots.

[arcane]

Just now, BrandX said:

 

I understand that thought, but at the same time, did they take Frostwork?  If they didn't take it before and think it's such a great power, they have to either lose a power now and possibly find slots.

They will have to find the slots, yes. Many didn’t take it before whereas now there’s speculation that multiple colds having Frostwork negates the need for a nature on the team. 

[BrandX]

20 hours ago, DreadShinobi said:

 

Still seems like this power should do some minor fire damage over time. 

 

 

The problem with Frostwork is that it is a wildly varying massively overkill amount of +max hp, but not that +Max HP wasn't a desired ally buff. So why not keep 25% of the original value of the +Max HP buff and lower the new absorb amount a smidge? Now you get to keep a relevant HP buff in the game and give a very monotone power something new and active to do.

 

I agree on Melt Armor needing some minor fire damage.  Just a nice Fire DoT.  Not a lot of damage.  What about 40 ticks over 40 seconds (duration of the power) at 1-2 Fire Damage?  Opens up slotting, and I know my Dark/Thermal would like a bit more damage, and I can't imagine 1-2 ticks of Fire Damage over 40 seconds is a massive gain, but maybe the fact it would be slottable with procs would make it so and maybe that's why not?

[BrandX]

5 minutes ago, arcane said:

They will have to find the slots, yes. Many didn’t take it before whereas now there’s speculation that multiple colds having Frostwork negates the need for a nature on the team. 

 

Eh...only if they're looking for one specific team make up.

[brass_eagle]

So, just had an experience with the new telekinesis. If the main target dies, the power shuts off. It doesn't stay active like other "anchor debuffs" like Radiation Infection. Not sure if they are similar in code. 

 

I hadn't encountered it because I was mostly hitting the other targets (avoiding Levitate on the main), and hadn't teamed much yet. That kinda sucks if a teammate puts your telekinesis on cooldown, but I guess fair(?).

 

Is there a way to get an animation, some sparkles, or googly eyes... something on the main target so they are identifiable?

Edited January 23 by brass_eagle

[Captain Powerhouse]

10 hours ago, Kai Moon said:

First, the patch notes don't say Sleet's run and jump speed debuffs were supposed to be lowered from 50% to 40%. Was this inadvertent?

 

This is a side effect of the pet now actually inheriting the caster's modifiers. The run speed was likely not listed due to the large number of attributes in the power.

 

Freezing Rain was intentionally buffed this page as a direct buff for Storm Summoning, it being stronger than Sleet is intentional.

[Captain Powerhouse]

On 1/20/2024 at 10:21 PM, Avocado said:

Just want to double check: is this really intended to be 40% ResDebuff for Defenders rather than 30%?  I'll definitely be playing my Storm Defenders more if so!, but I'mwondering if it's a mistype in the notes

 

Yes, this is intentional.

[Thraxen]

6 hours ago, arcane said:

I agree; no time like the present to nerf Seeds.

My poor nature defender gets turned down at least once a month for pug star level ITFs. I get why cold is so good but I find nature to be good on those as well. 

[arealm]

Telekinesis as an Immobilize rather than a Hold will make the Controller a prime target.  Soloing (and sometimes in groups) I use TK to push a portion of the mobs into a corner so they can simmer for later in the battle.  Worse secondary effect, longer cooldown, shorter auto shut-off: who on earth was clamoring for this change?