NCSOFT & Homecoming License Announcement

[Bionic_Flea]

15 minutes ago, Blackbird71 said:

No, that's not how it works.  The company holding the license has all the power, and can revoke it at any time.  Or they can leverage the license to force an action from the licensed entity.  The FAQ even clearly states that even with the license, NCSoft can still arbitrarily shut them down, so that claim is simply false.  Before the agreement, NCSoft would have to send a legal Cease and Desist letter, which if HC chose to challenge the validity of (not saying they would, but it's still a risk NCSoft would have to consider), would have to be backed up with court filings, etc., creating more expense for no profit.  Now with the license in place, NCSoft can just say "Stop," and if HC refuses they will be in violation of the license agreement, which opens them to legal repercussions that weren't necessarily in play before. 

 

Well, I guess we are both guessing since I assume that neither of us has read the agreement. 

 

But generally speaking, license agreements allow the use of intellectual property under certain conditions.  Just like Marvel can't stop Sony from making Spider-Man movies, including all of Spidey's rogue gallery.  Marvel would, l'm confident, love to have all of Spider-Man back under their umbrella, but they can't because they licensed it to Sony to make movies.

Edited January 17 by Bionic_Flea

[Blackbird71]

7 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

 

Well, I guess we are both guessing since I assume that neither of us has read the agreement. 

 

 

 

No assumptions necessary, unless you think the FAQ is lying?

 

On 1/4/2024 at 7:34 AM, Homecoming said:

Announcement FAQ

 

Can NCSOFT still demand that Homecoming shuts down?
Yes. NCSOFT has always had (and will continue to have) the right to demand that Homecoming shuts down.

 

 

There are zero qualifiers given there; it's all according to NCSoft's whim.  All the license does (as stated in the FAQ) is give a framework to attempt to not run afoul of that whim.  But claiming that "NCSoft cannot arbitrarily shut them down" is literally incorrect as per the information we've been given.

Edited January 17 by Blackbird71

[Bionic_Flea]

Keep reading . . .

 

Quote

This agreement provides a framework under which Homecoming can operate the game in a way that complies with NCSOFT’s wishes in hopes of minimizing the chances of that happening. We’ve had a really positive and productive relationship with NCSOFT for over four years now, so we do not anticipate there being any issues.

 

But again, we are arguing over an agreement that neither of us has seen.  You can choose to believe whatever you want, as can I.  No sense in debating this further.

 

[Blackbird71]

I'm at least taking the FAQ at face value.  Your claim requires assuming it is incorrect or a lie.

[golstat2003]

46 minutes ago, Blackbird71 said:

 

No, that's not how it works.  The company holding the license has all the power, and can revoke it at any time.  Or they can leverage the license to force an action from the licensed entity.  The FAQ even clearly states that even with the license, NCSoft can still arbitrarily shut them down, so that claim is simply false.  Before the agreement, NCSoft would have to send a legal Cease and Desist letter, which if HC chose to challenge the validity of (not saying they would, but it's still a risk NCSoft would have to consider), would have to be backed up with court filings, etc., creating more expense for no profit.  Now with the license in place, NCSoft can just say "Stop," and if HC refuses they will be in violation of the license agreement, which opens them to legal repercussions that weren't necessarily in play before. 

 

The legal reprecussions were always in play.

[BjorJlen]

And this is the very reason why I asked what the time frame was in the licence in the first place. 🙂
   For while you do make a bit of a valid point @Blackbird71, one has to remember that all licence agreements have a set time frame in which it is legally active, after which both parties would have to renegotiate it again, or just "resign" and renew it. After this time frame has passed, both parties have the option to not resign, so in theory HC would have the option at that time to just go their own way without any "legal action taken" against them, bringing things full circle again before the licence was signed in the first place.

   Also, if I recall correctly, in most licence agreements there are clauses added to it that allow for either party to pull out of the agreement for any reason as well. Yes, this would involve a money transfer (right?) for the "Buyout" clause, but it would be there I would think. So there are options on either side set up I am sure to get out of the agreement, but that does not mean that such option(s) would be implemented. So overall I feel that this licence is a good thing as most do protect both parties involve, IF handled right, so in the end I think that HC is safe from being shut down "legally" anytime soon at all. 🙂

   Of course, since none of us have read the licence per saw at all, in the end we are all guessing here as the HC team has not told us anything "specific" about it (like what the time frame of the contract is for example), so as far as we are concerned, this can be perceived as a schrodinger's cat paradox. But the odds are HC is safe for now... 😉

[Blackbird71]

5 minutes ago, golstat2003 said:

 

The legal reprecussions were always in play.

 

The risks were always in play, and yes, some potential legal repercussions.  Any of the rogue servers faced those same issues.

 

However, I'm specifically referring to new repercussions for breach of the license agreement; those did not exist prior to an agreement being in place, and are now unique to HC and any other server that signs on to the terms of the agreement.

Edited January 17 by Blackbird71

[Glacier Peak]

Again, (for probably the 50th time in this thread?) no one but the Homecoming team and NCSOFT are privy to this agreement.

[BjorJlen]

17 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

Again, (for probably the 50th time in this thread?) no one but the Homecoming team and NCSOFT are privy to this agreement.

 

Quoted for truth... 🙂

[Demon Shell]

Two weeks late, but I have to chime in and say both congratulations and thanks for all the effort and time put into this project.

[CherokeeMan2000]

I'm a tad late, been enjoying CoH and seeing the influx of new and old players, and players that had no idea it was back! I was away for a few months, but when I heard this it excited me to come back and experience a childhood MMO I've always loved, yes I said childhood, I was 14 or 15 at the time, I'm 31 now, and still love it. Im very proud to be a part of this community, the help I received as a returning player was astounding, and now I'm doing the same for players new and old returning. I hope this game continues to be one of the best.

[Dr. Strangequirk]

Thank you GM Crumpet for this:

 

I did a quick google and I think you might be misremembering. The gender swap was at icon and facemaker https://archive.paragonwiki.com/wiki/Super_Booster_III:_Superscience

 

This is exactly what I had bought & enjoyed in the old live days. Indeed, I had forgotten that the potion had to be drunk in Icon for the change to work. Thanks again for suppling the link to a feature I used often back then.

 

My original question still stands though: Is there a chance that the Devs can or will bring this in-game feature back again?

 

My thanks to all who've toiled long & hard to bring our beloved COH back to officialdom. I loved playing up to the end in 2012. Then when the "secret" was leaked about the underground server and Homecoming stepped forward, I happily jumped back into playing. I understand why the old characters & accounts had to be wiped but I hope that some of the old players who had created such wonderful stories in AE might recreate them again. Worlds within worlds...   :)

[Mikhael Mouse]

15 hours ago, Dr. Strangequirk said:

Thank you GM Crumpet for this:

 

I did a quick google and I think you might be misremembering. The gender swap was at icon and facemaker https://archive.paragonwiki.com/wiki/Super_Booster_III:_Superscience

 

This is exactly what I had bought & enjoyed in the old live days. Indeed, I had forgotten that the potion had to be drunk in Icon for the change to work. Thanks again for suppling the link to a feature I used often back then.

 

My original question still stands though: Is there a chance that the Devs can or will bring this in-game feature back again?

 

This still exists, in the same way it worked during live. However, what you're attempting to describe never actually existed on the live servers in the first place.

 

In order to have this effect, as it existed then and now:

 

1. At a tailor, use an alternate costume slot to create a replica of your character with a different gender, with the same costume parts (not all costume parts are available for all genders, slightly limiting the costumes this will work with).

2. Use the /cce # CCDrinkFormula command to switch costume slots (and thus character gender) while using the costume-change emote of drinking a formula from a flask. This command could be placed in a macro or keybind for convenience.

 

Once you've set it up that way, it will work anywhere in the game, giving the *appearance* of what you're describing. However, the mechanism is and was completely different from what you're describing.

Edited January 21 by Mikhael Mouse

[AgentForest]

A question for the Homecoming development team:

Are there any possibilities of collaboration between any of the existing servers, like Homecoming and Rebirth, in the future?  I thought I'd read something regarding servers possibly consolidating to expand their player bases now that there's some stability in the long-term viability of these servers, but I can't remember where I read that.

[Glacier Peak]

44 minutes ago, AgentForest said:

A question for the Homecoming development team:

Are there any possibilities of collaboration between any of the existing servers, like Homecoming and Rebirth, in the future?  I thought I'd read something regarding servers possibly consolidating to expand their player bases now that there's some stability in the long-term viability of these servers, but I can't remember where I read that.

There's more info [pertaining to your question] at the link below.

 

 

Edited January 22 by Glacier Peak

[luficia]

On 1/16/2024 at 10:40 AM, Luzion said:

FAQ Can NCsoft shut COH down and the answer was yes. I will not play a game that NCsoft has anything to do with. I love the game. I will leave on my terms not having it ripped from under me again.

 

NCSoft can shut down ANY city of heroes private server at any time. As long as you play, you have a good chance of being shut down. With the licensing agreement, Homecoming is less likely to be shut down. 

 

If you feel safer on private servers instead of one with a licensing agreement, keep in mind that you run the risk of those servers getting C&D. NCSoft can do that at any time. 

[The Fifth Horseman]

On 1/17/2024 at 4:39 PM, Blackbird71 said:

No, that's not how it works.  The company holding the license has all the power, and can revoke it at any time.

Not quite. Under normal circumstances there would be a notice period and immediate revocation like you describe would require a severe breach of the license.

Rogue servers can go down overnight because their webhost received a takedown notice.

It's very much not the same.

[MadMadFarmer]

New to actually reading forums :). Someone mentioned having to merge accounts if you have more than one, prior to the new expansion or accounts could be lost? Am I missing info somewhere?

[Targren]

Maybe a cynical question from a guy who never did clock more than a few dozen hours before life and the end of the world got in the way, but here it is anyway:

 

Is this agreement going to come with any changes to the P2W store? 

[Glacier Peak]

16 minutes ago, Targren said:

Maybe a cynical question from a guy who never did clock more than a few dozen hours before life and the end of the world got in the way, but here it is anyway:

 

Is this agreement going to come with any changes to the P2W store? 

Not sure when you last tried Homecoming, but the in game Pay 2 Win / Transact 4 Victory vendors now sell ALL previously available (and now more) items from the live version store for in game currency only. 

[Targren]

11 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

Not sure when you last tried Homecoming, but the in game Pay 2 Win / Transact 4 Victory vendors now sell ALL previously available (and now more) items from the live version store for in game currency only. 

 

It was in early 2020, and I am pretty sure it was working that way then.  I'm more just hoping it's going to stay that way. 

Edited January 26 by Targren

[Hyperstrike]

39 minutes ago, Targren said:

Maybe a cynical question from a guy who never did clock more than a few dozen hours before life and the end of the world got in the way, but here it is anyway:

 

Is this agreement going to come with any changes to the P2W store? 

Basically the devs cannot run a cash store.

And a large  number of items introed from the cash store have been integrated into the game in ways that allow players to earn them.

[Voltor]

CBR speaks about City of Heroes 

 

https://www.cbr.com/franchise-fatigue-answer-city-of-heroes/

[Hyperstrike]

Yes.  There's a reason why CoH still exists and could save/fix the superhero genre.

Look in your mirror to see one of them.

 

And thank everyone looking in the mirror after reading this.

[Glacier Peak]

1 hour ago, Voltor said:

CBR speaks about City of Heroes 

 

https://www.cbr.com/franchise-fatigue-answer-city-of-heroes/

I appreciate the link, but good lord that site has so many advertisements I could barely follow the authors writing. It felt like it kept repeating the same things and I had to keep scrolling to understand.