50! Now what? Task force expectations and time management

[Duckbutler]

This game has always been one that is more about the journey than the destination. Back in the day, once a character hit 50 I might try to get their accolade auto powers but otherwise they were pretty much shelved unless a friend wanted help with something and I wanted to fill a particular role or I was in a specific mood. This time around I thought I would try to stick around a while longer and enjoy the "completed" level 50, actually do some incarnate content, maybe put together some real builds that have some time and effort invested into them instead of just being the best I can do on a very limited budget.

 

What's stopping me is that I don't really know what to expect. It's very easy for me to find an hour here, an hour there. With that, I can very easily pop in and out of radio teams and help with random contact missions. It's much more difficult to find 2 hours together that are uninterrupted. From the Task Forces that I have done, clear times are ranging wildly from 30 to 90 minutes and I feel like I probably need the 2 hours reserved to include recruitment time. What I have done so far is basically everything for the Task Force Commander accolade except Numina, then add Moonfire.

 

The other thing is I don't really know what to expect when someone starts advertising a "speedy" TF. What that sounds like, to me having not really gotten into it yet, is that it's going to be every man for themself running through the mission and if you can't keep up, you're toast. If I see a "kill all" or a "kill most" ITF, I get it. That's self explanatory.

 

So these are my real questions:

 

1) Are my task force times off base? Is there a guide out there that can help set expectations?

2) What is the expectation when someone starts advertising something as speedy and how can I prepare for that?

[ZemX]

3 minutes ago, Duckbutler said:

1) Are my task force times off base? Is there a guide out there that can help set expectations?

2) What is the expectation when someone starts advertising something as speedy and how can I prepare for that?

 

(1) Times can vary a lot.  Certainly if people are "speeding" vs. "kill most"(ing?) that makes a big difference but it can also vary just by team composition or difficulty setting.   I am not sure there's an up to date guide for times but the amount of merits rewarded was supposed to have been adjusted in the past to be roughly proportional to how much time players were taking doing those TFs.  It won't be super accurate, but it's a rough guide to judge them at least relative to each other.   What will REALLY blow out the time needed is when a team lead wants to set it to +4 difficulty level and then half or more of the team ends up being under the team lead's level.  But that's fairly uncommon.

 

(2) "Speedy" just means that all missions will be done with an eye toward only the objectives.  Any spawns of enemies which can be skipped, will be skipped.  Glowies that have to be clicked will be found and clicked.  To use Manticore's TF as example, there are missions where you have to clear the whole map.  Those cannot be sped up, obviously.  But missions where you only need to "Defeat the Security Chief and his men?" one or more (or everybody who can) will dash past all the mobs until they get, typically, to the last floor of the map, find the room the chief is in, and go to town on everyone in just that room.  Maybe try to teleport in other team members who can't manage the run.   The mission where a computer has to be hacked can be done by one speeder in stealth or just tough enough to ignore enemies.  Other members of the team not actively involved in speeding to the objective typically just fight enemies to pass the time.

 

I don't know if I would put too much effort into preparing for speeding since I've rarely run into a random team that couldn't.  It's nice to have team members with Assemble the Team and Team Teleporter and sometimes you'll see people asking in their advert for team members who have such but more typically they'll either not mention it or just say it's a "would be nice".  Unless it's a Shadow Shard TF that is... then you see people saying it's mandatory.   That or pack a lunch. 🤪

[Duckbutler]

Yeah, if it didn't come through in my first post, I definitely favor more cooperative gameplay in a team environment. I like to be independent because I hate feeling helpless! But I'm not likely to leave anyone behind, either. I remember this being a problem with stalkers in particular because they could get to the objective, not actually be able to do anything with it, and then just go afk. If I were to play the stalker I would see it as my duty to take at least teleport target so I can bring everyone to me once I found the objective.

 

I had a roommate get sucked into a Quarterfield Task Force long, long ago. He was sold on it having Fake Nemesis for his accolade. His entire Saturday went down the drain, like a full 8 hours or something along those lines.

[Duckbutler]

28 minutes ago, ZemX said:

 

...the amount of merits rewarded was supposed to have been adjusted in the past to be roughly proportional to how much time players were taking doing those TFs.  It won't be super accurate, but it's a rough guide to judge them at least relative to each other.   What will REALLY blow out the time needed is when a team lead wants to set it to +4 difficulty level and then half or more of the team ends up being under the team lead's level.

 

That helps, by the way. Thank you.

[SeraphimKensai]

At level 50 there's still a lot of mission content through story arcs in various zones like Ouroboros, RWZ, Dark Astoria, The Shadow Shard, PI, Grandville, etc.

 

Playing at lvl 50 also generates the most influence gain for just doing missions, and rewards incarnate salvage, occasional prismatic aethers, and gives you access for very rare recipe drops.

 

So there's heaps to do still for a fresh lvl 50 character.

[ZemX]

8 minutes ago, Duckbutler said:

I remember this being a problem with stalkers in particular because they could get to the objective, not actually be able to do anything with it, and then just go afk. If I were to play the stalker I would see it as my duty to take at least teleport target so I can bring everyone to me once I found the objective.

 

Teleport Target is a great idea on a Stalker or anybody who can stealth.   I take it on some of my Tankers because they "stealth" by just running through everybody with a smile and an extended middle finger. 

 

These days though, a single well-built toon, even a Stalker, can do quite a lot on their own.  But I also fondly recall doing the LGTF with my old Ninja Blade / Ninja Stalker in Live and surprising teammates by being able to free captives by myself.  But it was just the magic of over-soft-capped melee defense. 🤪  Regardless, still wanted teleport to bring the whole team to the end AV fight anyway.

 

In general, I prefer some carnage in a TF rather than unfettered speeding but there are certainly those I wish had MORE speed opportunities.  Looking at you, Synapse!

[Ironblade]

2 hours ago, Duckbutler said:

What I have done so far is basically everything for the Task Force Commander accolade except Numina, then add Moonfire.

Okay, then.  Here's one guideline: no task force takes as long as Synapse unless you go to the Shadow Shard.  Some of those, particularly Dr Quaterfeld, are VERY long.  Dr Q is the 8-hour nightmare TF you hear people talk about.  It used to be that long due to the massive amounts of traveling within the Shard and also back and forth between the Shard and Paragon City.  Nowadays it's much easier since we have a lot of improved travel powers.  An organized team, where all or most have bought the enhanced travel powers from the Pay2Win vendor, can do it under two hours.  Sometimes when it's the weekly, I'll solo it for the merits in about 3 or 3-1/2 hours.  Two notes: It takes that long because my girlfriend and I log in multiple accounts so it's set for 4-5 players and I run it alone.  By "enhanced travel powers", I mean the stuff like Mission Teleporter, Team Transporter, Base Portal, Assemble the Team.

 

 

2 hours ago, Duckbutler said:

The other thing is I don't really know what to expect when someone starts advertising a "speedy" TF. What that sounds like, to me having not really gotten into it yet, is that it's going to be every man for themself running through the mission and if you can't keep up, you're toast.

Generally speaking, you don't need to know what to expect for a speedy TF.  It means they know shortcuts and are going to use every method they can to make it as fast as possible.  This may mean stealthing a mission while the team does whatever.  At any rate, THEY have a plan and you don't need to do anything special.  Just follow the crowd and hit stuff.

 

 

2 hours ago, Duckbutler said:

1) Are my task force times off base? Is there a guide out there that can help set expectations?

When the devs assigned merit rewards to the task forces, they based it on median time to completion.  Go to the wiki, look up the task forces, and multiply the merit reward by 3.5 to get an estimated completion time.

 

 

Two more comments:

1) You mentioned incarnate trials.  Most of the shards run these on a regular basis.  I only know the schedule for Everlasting.  I mostly play on Everlasting, although I have Ironblade at level 50 on every shard.

2) I run task forces on a regular basis.  What shard are you on?

 

[Duckbutler]

I'm mostly on Everlasting! I spilled over into Torchbearer for double XP and then Excelsior to check out what the higher population server was like. It's kinda like living in the suburbs and driving into the city. My level 50 scrapper, Daisy Dawn, is on Everlasting.

[KITANYA]

4 hours ago, Duckbutler said:

This game has always been one that is more about the journey than the destination. Back in the day, once a character hit 50 I might try to get their accolade auto powers but otherwise they were pretty much shelved unless a friend wanted help with something and I wanted to fill a particular role or I was in a specific mood. This time around I thought I would try to stick around a while longer and enjoy the "completed" level 50, actually do some incarnate content, maybe put together some real builds that have some time and effort invested into them instead of just being the best I can do on a very limited budget.

 

What's stopping me is that I don't really know what to expect. It's very easy for me to find an hour here, an hour there. With that, I can very easily pop in and out of radio teams and help with random contact missions. It's much more difficult to find 2 hours together that are uninterrupted. From the Task Forces that I have done, clear times are ranging wildly from 30 to 90 minutes and I feel like I probably need the 2 hours reserved to include recruitment time. What I have done so far is basically everything for the Task Force Commander accolade except Numina, then add Moonfire.

 

The other thing is I don't really know what to expect when someone starts advertising a "speedy" TF. What that sounds like, to me having not really gotten into it yet, is that it's going to be every man for themself running through the mission and if you can't keep up, you're toast. If I see a "kill all" or a "kill most" ITF, I get it. That's self explanatory.

 

So these are my real questions:

 

1) Are my task force times off base? Is there a guide out there that can help set expectations?

2) What is the expectation when someone starts advertising something as speedy and how can I prepare for that?

 

At 50 you can also do Incarnate Trials, so there's still content for your 50s

[Snarky]

At 50 you see someone using a super cool power.  an idea for a new costume and character flashes through your brain, and you go chasing it like a dog after a ball.  Welcome to Endgame: Level 1

[Duckbutler]

Fashion is the real endgame!

 

Oh wait, FFXIV is that way... --->

[Intermipants]

I always think of hitting level 50 as the start of the second half of the journey because there’s so many cool things to do once you start getting your incarnates - one arc I love is the DA story, I’ve done that on a load of my 50s. If you’ve really invested in a character it’s also possible to start challenging yourself with solo task forces, GMs,  and the like, I enjoy seeing what the limits are for each character. 

[Clave Dark 5]

23 hours ago, Duckbutler said:

a "speedy" TF. What that sounds like, to me having not really gotten into it yet, is that it's going to be every man for themself running through the mission and if you can't keep up, you're toast.

That's about right.  Might as well go doorsit and fold laundry or something, IMHO, it's boring for anyone other than that one or two people who have it all memorized and slotted enough Stealth or whatever, and yeah, chances are they're not there to team with you, exactly.

[Duckbutler]

11 minutes ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

That's about right.  Might as well go doorsit and fold laundry or something, IMHO, it's boring for anyone other than that one or two people who have it all memorized and slotted enough Stealth or whatever, and yeah, chances are they're not there to team with you, exactly.

If that's what it is, that's what it is. Rather than getting aggravated fighting it, I'd rather learn to fly alongside everyone else. I have an invuln/staff tanker and a fire/dark corruptor and neither is at cap yet, but both could easily run through a map and pick up at least teleport target at some point in their build to pull stragglers forwards. I love 'em both and only paused the tanker to stop and observe other tankers some more.

 

I spent the last decade since shut down over on FFXIV and the thing that they did that was really smart was they just standardized the dungeon layouts. They saw the speed runs happening in ARR and have pretty much forced it so that everyone is on the same page. Every once in a while you get someone on the forums asking about single pulls vs mass pulls and everyone is like, "No, default to mass pulls. Slow down if you wipe." Content is pretty sleek and polished nowadays and balance is very tight, the difference between tank DPS is something like 1-3% and they all share analogous cooldown suites. Some people complain about being on the rails and how it gets boring and how there's no real character customization. But that's why you take breaks and go explore and play games like this one where you get to tinker for a while.

 

That's the perspective I think I've gained, anyway. 

[Harlequin565]

I guess I'm in the same boat as you time wise. A couple of hours here & there. I actually think a lot of people fall into that category which is why there are so many "speed" requests in LFG. I remember doing a Doc Q TF back on live where everyone arranged to relog back on the next day at a certain time to finish it. Same for the OG Positron TF.

 

I like to get the iPowers for my 50s and for those I need incarnate components. The quickest way to get them for me is a speedy Tinpex (gets you 2 for way less than an hour invested) and Lambda trials (1 roll very quickly) I'll tend to run speedy Lambda trials where everyone dogpiles certain objectives (everyone straight over the wall, everyone on grenades rather than splitting). It often takes longer to fill the league than it does to run the TF, so I'll do 2 or 3 in a row.

 

The non incarnate task forces do take time, and it really depends on the team - which you can't know beforehand. A Kill Most ITF can be very quick if everyone is 50+1 with T3 Judgements, or very slow if everyone is L35 and hasn't even slotted their powers. That's why you often see adverts asking for "50+" when the level requirement is much lower. Synapse is a ball ache with all the -end from the clocks and the defeat alls, and Manticore can be very slow if folks keep letting the PPs hit MOG. Skipping to objectives where possible is a valid strategy. 

 

In terms of what to do in a speedy trial you've never sped before. Click on the team/league leader and stick to them (press f if you get turned around and that will point you at them). Make sure you have stealth, or enough toughness to survive. After doing it a couple of times, you'll get the hang of it. The iTrials I've run almost always have someone who doesn't know what to do, and most team/league leaders will give instructions. The worst ones are Keyes and TPN for hopping around all over the map, the rest are all "follow the clump of supers"

[Water]

Do what you enjoy when you can play. Putting pressure on yourself, rather, if I put pressure on myself to get the things it would remove some enjoyment. Most of what you wil require will come organically whilst you play higher end content anyway. Then after a little while see what you're missing. All of it is easy to get.

[Judasace]

7 hours ago, Harlequin565 said:

 

 

I like to get the iPowers for my 50s and for those I need incarnate components. The quickest way to get them for me is a speedy Tinpex (gets you 2 for way less than an hour invested) and Lambda trials (1 roll very quickly)

 

 

 

 

I've got Heather Townshend down to 10 - 12 minutes (Depending on which map I get in mission 1 and where certain glowies are in mission 3) I think my best time was like 9:15 once. But 5 - 6 rolls an hour really can't be beat, as long as you can put up with the repetition.

[Clave Dark 5]

10 hours ago, Duckbutler said:

If that's what it is, that's what it is. Rather than getting aggravated fighting it, I'd rather learn to fly alongside everyone else.

That's getting into the realm of twitch gaming, which I cannot stand.  I'm not just saying these things to be contrarian you know.  😃

 

I have an invuln/staff tanker and a fire/dark corruptor and neither is at cap yet, but both could easily run through a map and pick up at least teleport target at some point in their build to pull stragglers forwards. I love 'em both and only paused the tanker to stop and observe other tankers some more.

Skipping to the end usually strikes me as just people who wants rewards without the effort.  I can see it might be fun to test yourself/ your build to see if you can, but it's so pervasive I feel it's usually the other.

 

I spent the last decade since shut down over on FFXIV and the thing that they did that was really smart was they just standardized the dungeon layouts. They saw the speed runs happening in ARR and have pretty much forced it so that everyone is on the same page.

Sounds ghastly!  😃  If this game did that, I'd be long gone.

 

Every once in a while you get someone on the forums asking about single pulls vs mass pulls and everyone is like, "No, default to mass pulls. Slow down if you wipe." Content is pretty sleek and polished nowadays and balance is very tight, the difference between tank DPS is something like 1-3% and they all share analogous cooldown suites. Some people complain about being on the rails and how it gets boring and how there's no real character customization. But that's why you take breaks and go explore and play games like this one where you get to tinker for a while.

 Sounds ghastly!  😃  If this game did that, I'd be long gone.  I don't have any truck with cookie-cutter builds.

 

Speedrunners, farmers and the uber min/maxers it seems to me are like the people who design build and race Indy 500 cars: they are very good at going around in little circles on closed tracks very quickly.  Me, I want to take the body of a 70s muscle car, mount it on tank treads and set a huge harpoon-firing ballista on the back and rampage in any direction that strikes my fancy - now that's fun!  You go make your racers and enjoy that narrow range of the game, I'll make my Mad Max monsters and enjoy everything else.

 

[Harlequin565]

On 2/9/2024 at 11:52 PM, Judasace said:

But 5 - 6 rolls an hour really can't be beat, as long as you can put up with the repetition.

Agreed. I think I can manage two runs before boredom kicks in. 

[Sovera]

As others have said but reiterating to add peer pressure: under level 50 only Synapse is long, and even then I can and have whipped the team to do it an hour. At level 50 most TFs take between 15+15 minutes (Tinpex, which is actually two tiny TFs ran together taking in total 30-40 minutes to do. Btw, if you have time for nothing else try to do Tinpex every day since the rewards are OP compared to anything in the game), to 40 minutes for a Market Crash, to an hour for a kill most ITF, to the ginormous Dr Kahn which is only done when it's weekly TF time since it can go for 2 hours without a coordinated team (tbf nowadays most people who only touch that ARE coordinated).

 

Anything under level 50 should be run at +1 so back away if you see +4 for a Citadel or a Yin. Anything at 50 should have the team members looked at: if most have veteran levels then +4 is fine, if most are fresh 50 or even under 50 then +2 or +3 tops.

[ZekeStenzland]

On 2/8/2024 at 7:24 AM, Duckbutler said:

2) What is the expectation when someone starts advertising something as speedy and how can I prepare for that?

 

So, I've participated in a number of speed runs (trials, task forces, strike forces, events, mission arcs, but not iTrials), so take this as a general commentary, not a mathematical law.

 

A speed run is primarily done to get the completion reward as fast as possible. Folks are looking for the merit rewards, d-sync enhancements, whatever. Other incidental rewards are nice but not worth spending time on. That's it.

 

The folks hosting the speed run have typically already recruited the minimal set of people/powers necessary to speed. They open the team for pug slots because they're hoping for warm bodies that can make things go even faster.

 

For missions with limited objectives (kill boss, click glowy, free the hostage) one or more people will stealth through the map as fast as possible to find the objective. If they can solo it, they will. Otherwise they will teleport the team to take care of it. Kill only what's necessary for a speedy mission completion. As soon as the Exit button pops, everyone clicks Exit and moves on to the next mission.

 

But I was in combat -- Nope. Exit. Move on.

But the badge -- Nope. Exit. Move on.

But the ambush -- Nope. Exit. Move on.

But I need to avenge!!! -- Nope. Exit. Move on.

 

That's the core of it.

 

For kill all missions, or for missions with several widely scattered objectives (free 7 hostages, for example) it's common for the team to split up. Those who can solo a whole spawn typically head off alone. Those who can't.... either stick together or tag along with someone more durable. You will be expected to figure out how you can best contribute to mission completion speed. Door sitting doesn't help, but neither does getting dead. You know your character best, you figure out how best to contribute.

 

It's also common, while sneaky dudes are off finding the objective, for those not sneaky to just kill mobs while waiting. It's free xp/inf/drops since you otherwise wouldn't be doing anything else. Just be aware that you will at some point be teleported away, possibly while in combat. Or possibly be the *last* person teleported away while you're in combat. Plan accordingly.

 

 

For various reasons, I don't recommend speed runs for new players. It's not a great experience if you don't have any idea what's going out. No one wants to slow down the run to explain to you what's going on, or why. You'll miss out on all the lore. Etc.

 

 

What you can do to be a more popular speed run teammate....

 

Get all the travel powers that you can, so that travel time between missions is as little as possible. And same for travel within large outdoor missions. P2W vendor has Team Teleport, Assemble the Team, Mission Transporter, flight packs. Monitor Duty day job power. Have Long Range Teleport and Oro Portal unlocked. Have access to a SG base with portals. If you can afford the power pick, Teleport Friend is really helpful. Be sure to announce before you use the powers on others. Some have 30 minute cooldowns. Be a waste if two people both used Assemble the Team at the same time in mission 1 and then no one had it available in mission 2....

 

Stealth is useful. The Celerity Stealth proc is okay if you're feeling frisky, but is one of the least effective stealth powers in the game. But if you do have stealth and are comfortable with it, you can help the leaders search the map for objectives. You can solo it or summon teammates to complete it. Or just announcing to the team that you've found it can save time because now everyone knows where it is. Or just be one of the people who *doesn't* have to be teleported to the final boss room.

 

If you level during the run, hold off training if you can. No one wants to wait for you while you pick your powers, look up your build to see where to put enhancements, check the AH or vendors for the enhancements you want, sell your excess salvage and enhancements, touch up your costume, etc. If you ding 50, then sure, train up so you'll start getting threads and incarnate xp.

 

The usual good teammate stuff: Follow directions from the team lead. Don't talk sex, politics, drugs or religion in team chat. Don't be a jerk. Don't be watching YouTube instead of contributing. Don't try hijacking the session into a kill all or kill most run.

 

 

That's my take on speed running. It's not typically my preferred cup of tea, but sometimes it's either all that's going on or it's all I have time for. YMMV.

 

[Duckbutler]

Thanks for the feedback, everyone! I had an opportunity to take the plunge over the weekend and apply all the advice here. We ended up smashing so many task forces I honestly lost count!