Regarding: Radio Silence

[AmrasNotHere]

6 minutes ago, GM_GooglyMoogly said:

And for those that hate me most of all, please be excellent to each other.

Ngl, I actually like this as your catch phrase. If you ever get made into an in game NPC I hope this is your closing statement! lol

 

I'm gonna recommend my thread on a similar topic in the closed beta section if you would like to provide any positive acknowledgements. 

[This response is part of a tracked conversation by: @GM_GooglyMoogly ]

[PeregrineFalcon]

16 minutes ago, GM_GooglyMoogly said:

And yes, I am sure there are other things that you hated when they came out.  Some you got used to and some you still hate.

Grumble... grumble. I really didn't like the changes to Energy Melee when they first went live. I kinda like it now though.

 

17 minutes ago, GM_GooglyMoogly said:

And for those that hate me most of all, please be excellent to each other.

No one hates you Moogly. Not even me.

 

What? Get off my lawn!

[Shin Magmus]

26 minutes ago, GM_GooglyMoogly said:

But if you don't want threads locked, please don't insult each other (or anyone, really).  Please stay on topic.  And for those that hate me most of all, please be excellent to each other.

Hey I went ahead and took the name "Be Axecellent to EO", in honor of my turning over a new leaf and becoming a bastion of peace.  I just wanted you to know.  You helped me finally think up a concept to make an Axe Scrapper after the reworks.

[arcane]

32 minutes ago, AmrasNotHere said:

This is a personal attack, not a disagreeing statement.

Feel free to tell me which part isn’t 100% factual if you like, but more importantly I’d love your take on why I should care. Videra, Shin, and Sai have attacked and insulted me more times than I can count, so it doesn’t surprise me to hear that I slipped up on that front in response. 

[GM_GooglyMoogly]

3 minutes ago, arcane said:

but more importantly I’d love your take on why I should care.

[PeregrineFalcon]

Ok, well I didn't find the posts that I was looking for in the time that I'm willing to spend on it, but I did find an interesting thread on this subject that I'd forgotten about.

 

 

[ScarySai]

@GM_GooglyMoogly I don't see why the entire thread should be closed at all if you can identify and just handle the bad actors.

[GM Crumpet]

42 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Grumble... grumble. I really didn't like the changes to Energy Melee when they first went live. I kinda like it now though.

 

No one hates you Moogly. Not even me.

 

What? Get off my lawn!

Kids these days. Get off my lawn!! That's not music!! When I was a lad..... etc. etc. 😛 

 

And we all love Googly 🙂 

 

[Luminara]

4 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

@GM_GooglyMoogly I don't see why the entire thread should be closed at all if you can identify and just handle the bad actors.

 

https://m.imdb.com/list/ls071395299/

 

Got you covered.

[PeregrineFalcon]

On 2/13/2024 at 5:32 AM, Videra said:

Communicate with us, please. Let's not have another Beanbag Week or 'What is Wet?' week. It'll be easier for everyone involved.

I think this is the important point that the OP was trying to make. And quite frankly I will be shocked if anyone here actually disagrees with this point.

 

In the meantime there's way too many people in this thread who are clearly bucking for their Junior Moderator Badge for my taste, so I'm gonna see myself out. Take care all. Peace.

[Shin Magmus]

51 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

https://m.imdb.com/list/ls071395299/

 

Got you covered.

That's a good article since Gwyneth "Goop" Paltrow is #1, peddling her snake oil and scamming uninformed women.  Definitely the worst actor.

[Sovera]

4 hours ago, ScarySai said:

 

Explaining your design intent and goals is the bare minimum that should be expected of a balance dev, especially ones that claim to be volunteers operating out of passion.

 

If your explanation is demonstrably wrong, then yeah, that's going to happen. You seem to imply that's somehow a bad thing, though.

 

The devs say they want us to go in neutral and test things and just give our feels about it. I'm not saying they are doing this out of malice, perhaps not even out of ignorance. But we've had people who actually do testing as a living chime in that this is NOT how things are done. Say what you're tweaking, the testing team goes in and tries to break it and see how it behaves and then reports back.

 

 

It may be a nitpick but even now we continue having the changes couched in roleplay terms (this does less damage now) instead of numbers (this used to do 20% and now does 7.5%) until one of the testers goes into the server, copies or tests the numbers, and then they return and bring the numbers for everyone to see. Otherwise every single tester has to go in, see or test the numbers to know what the changes are.

 

Why? The devs know the numbers. Why aren't they posted? Heck, it's their server and if they want to continue doing it like that it's up to them. But if the devs are unpaid volunteers so are the players going in to test things for them but asking these things is met with radio silence. A bit of respect going both ways is nice too.

 

 

I don't remember the game who did this (probably GW2) but patch notes would have dev notes accompanying most of the changes.

'We change this because we considered it did too much damage and was eclipsing the other choices. But we boosted the other choices to be more appealing too'

'Our data showed X talent was almost never picked and we wanted to make it more interesting so we reworked it from scratch and now it does X that when Z happens it will have Y effect'.

 

 

Also, saying that if the devs only answered questions they would have no time for anything else is strange. We know that a single person does not all and some will be doing VFX, some will do scripting, some will be in the power team. And one can be dedicated to communication with the players.

 

[ScarySai]

3 minutes ago, Sovera said:

Why? The devs know the numbers. Why aren't they posted? Heck, it's their server and if they want to continue doing it like that it's up to them.

 

This is an important point.

 

Can they just decide tomorrow to nuke every good set and state the reasoning as their favorite color being purple? Sure, nothing is really in place to stop them, might get a mini exodus to rebirth but whatever. 

 

But if we're pretending to actually be making changes in good faith, it stands to reason that you should provide your reasoning and goals for said changes if you're actually interested in making the game better.

 

To me, a lot of changes strike me as someone making a nice spreadsheet presentation, testing it in an unrealistic debug room sort of deal under specific parameters, and ignoring everything that shows the flaws with said changes until it's far too late. 

[Shin Magmus]

2 minutes ago, Sovera said:

It may be a nitpick but even now we continue having the changes couched in roleplay terms (this does less damage now) instead of numbers (this used to do 20% and now does 7.5%) until one of the testers goes into the server, copies or tests the numbers, and then they return and bring the numbers for everyone to see. Otherwise every single tester has to go in, see or test the numbers to know what the changes are.

 

Why? The devs know the numbers. Why aren't they posted? Heck, it's their server and if they want to continue doing it like that it's up to them. But if the devs are unpaid volunteers so are the players going in to test things for them but asking these things is met with radio silence. A bit of respect going both ways is nice too.

 

     Generally patch notes will show the numbers or at least the damage scales, but one of the powers devs in particular has a habit of only posting the new/changed numbers and not the full list of the old numbers prior to the change.  This obfuscates the data and often hides the portion of the power that was nerfed, or the part that is severely out of line with comparable powers and the rest of the game (ex. Epic Tar Patch requires a tohit check for its -Res but no other version of the power does).  Not only would we like some statements of intent as per the OP, but I'd also like the devs to post an actual full snapshot of before and after for any change, that shows the full extent of what is different now.  Then at least players have the all necessary information to form an opinion and to begin testing.

[Bionic_Flea]

2 hours ago, Luminara said:

 

https://m.imdb.com/list/ls071395299/

 

Got you covered.

 

Is that list from least worst to most worst?  Or the other way?

[GM_GooglyMoogly]

2 hours ago, ScarySai said:

@GM_GooglyMoogly I don't see why the entire thread should be closed at all if you can identify and just handle the bad actors.

 

You may not like who I choose to identify as a bad actor.

 

But any way, strike 2.  Stop the snide attacks unless you want the thread locked.  It seems like some may be dead set on it.  Maybe I should start issuing time outs instead.

[Luminara]

Just now, Bionic_Flea said:

 

Is that list from least worst to most worst?  Or the other way?

 

Tommy Wiseau is #2, so it has to be most to least.

[ScarySai]

10 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

Tommy Wiseau is #2, so it has to be most to least.

Tommy Wiseau is the greatest actor to ever live, so it must be an error.

[Luminara]

38 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

Tommy Wiseau is the greatest actor to ever live, so it must be an error.

 

[Jacke]

1 hour ago, Bionic_Flea said:

Is that list from least worst to most worst?  Or the other way?

 

Skimmed the list.  I think the order is random.  Which kind of fits the subject.  😺

[Lockely]

On 6/6/2024 at 7:40 PM, Sovera said:

I don't remember the game who did this (probably GW2) but patch notes would have dev notes accompanying most of the changes.

'We change this because we considered it did too much damage and was eclipsing the other choices. But we boosted the other choices to be more appealing too'

'Our data showed X talent was almost never picked and we wanted to make it more interesting so we reworked it from scratch and now it does X that when Z happens it will have Y effect'.

 

FFXIV does this with every single patch and it's a massive breath of fresh air in an industry (not just Homecoming) filled with trying to determine dev intent based on patch notes alone.

 

Example from the most recent patch:

 

[Shin Magmus]

@GM_GooglyMoogly I have a suggested new Form / Code of Conduct rule and I think it should be seen here rather than discussed in support tickets or DMs etc, and be made public.  In regards to the ability to deliberately derail conversation and incite negative emotions in other players, trying to goad (bait) them into responses that become arguments that become fights.  This should flat out not be allowed, and a rule needs to be set that describes exactly how and why it isn't allowed.  Here's my proposal:

 

"Rule X: Going out of your way to try and find loopholes in these rules and deliberately troll other players or manipulate discourse while pretending you did nothing wrong, will not be tolerated. The moderators know and understand the difference between "debate" and "pointless contrarianism"; you are not smarter than them. Repeated offenders will be warned and have their comments removed. A continued pattern of violations may result in a ban."

 

Let me know what you think.

[GM_GooglyMoogly]

5 hours ago, Shin Magmus said:

@GM_GooglyMoogly I have a suggested new Form / Code of Conduct rule and I think it should be seen here rather than discussed in support tickets or DMs etc, and be made public.  In regards to the ability to deliberately derail conversation and incite negative emotions in other players, trying to goad (bait) them into responses that become arguments that become fights.  This should flat out not be allowed, and a rule needs to be set that describes exactly how and why it isn't allowed.  Here's my proposal:

 

"Rule X: Going out of your way to try and find loopholes in these rules and deliberately troll other players or manipulate discourse while pretending you did nothing wrong, will not be tolerated. The moderators know and understand the difference between "debate" and "pointless contrarianism"; you are not smarter than them. Repeated offenders will be warned and have their comments removed. A continued pattern of violations may result in a ban."

 

Let me know what you think.

 

Since you asked, I don't think we need a new rule.  I believe that it is covered by: 

"If you encounter a negative person please block or ignore them; do not escalate the situation by engaging them yourselves. If their behaviour continues, please report them (see ‘Violations and Consequences’ below)."

AND

"Do not abuse or harass others"

 

But I don't make the rules.  You are free to pass your proposal up to one of the Lead GMs or the Council.  And you can also seek appeals of any GM action (or inaction) by contacting a lead GM, preferably via a ticket so that it can be tracked.

 

I do wish that you and Arcane could get along, but sometimes people just can't get along due to personalities, or history, or whatever else.  That's why it's best to ignore people that have that effect on you and not engage with them.  I know it's hard to do sometimes.  But that's our policy.

Edited June 9 by GM_GooglyMoogly

[twozerofoxtrot]

16 hours ago, Lockely said:

FFXIV does this with every single patch and it's a massive breath of fresh air in an industry (not just Homecoming) filled with trying to determine dev intent based on patch notes alone.

 

Back when it got regular updates Blizzard did similar with Heroes of the Storm.

 

TBH if a Blizzard MOBA dev team can do it....

 

[Shin Magmus]

1 hour ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

 

Back when it got regular updates Blizzard did similar with Heroes of the Storm.

 

TBH if a Blizzard MOBA dev team can do it....

 

     For the record, even Splatoon 3 does it with changes to main weapons: and the Splatoon dev team may be making a competitive online shooter but the staff heavily overlaps the Animal Crossing dev team.  They'll have a little write-up of why they changed or buffed a certain aspect of a weapon, usually in regards to it being played in an unintended way and the change shifting it back towards their intent: which is stated clearly.  It's a really low bar to clear and not much to ask.