Requesting a non-AE server #TBL on July 1st

[Charistoph]

Basically the game would need to be disassembled to tear the stuff out.

And unsure if the original versions of the map are available to reinstate.

Assume they would need to be created from scratch.

And then we'd have a second, separate code base for the game, simply so AE isn't then, WHEN YOU CAN SIMPLY AVOID IT YOURSELF.

 

Won't speak for the devs.  But it will PROBABLY be a diplomatic, but hard "no".

 

Not really.  All you have to do is go in to the maps and change the doors to being inaccessible.  The code can remain without tearing it out so long as you literally cannot reach the contact points.

 

Yeah, honestly, since the game came back, I haven't stepped ONE FOOT inside AE. You're just crazy.

 

I have, as part of the Shining Stars story arcs and the quick tutorial, but that's it.  Part of why I play is experiencing the journey of the story arcs.  I can find some in AE (and of course, there are the badges), but I've never had a character progress much past the 40 content on the Blue Side, and 20s on the Red Side.  I've just managed to get through 11/12s of the Praetorian content (1/12 is bugged) as it is.

[Solarverse]

Yeah, honestly, since the game came back, I haven't stepped ONE FOOT inside AE. You're just crazy.

 

This right here. I went there once, to get the badge, shook my head at all the players begging for power levels...and then walked right back out never to return.

 

Call me crazy, but I actually enjoy teaming with people and running Task Forces instead of standing around watching some gimp Brute, with a build that works for only one thing, to do the work for me. No thank you.

 

 

[OEM61]

I go there during the Shining Stars arc, because the mission tells me to, and then I stayed and got the badge for one of my toons.

 

The rest will have to go back, I guess.

 

Otherwise it's like I said;  Too many other things to do than play some janky missions intended only to provide XP as quickly as possible.

 

I try to enjoy the entire trip, not just the destination.  50 will come soon enough.

[Zaphir]

It kinda saddens me to see the common perception of the Mission Architect as "oh, it's that place for easy powerleveling/farming". Sure, that's a big part of what people used it for back in the day, but... there are also a lot of story arcs out there. Some of them are pretty great. Have you tried playing any of those? (search for 'SFMA' to find them more easily)

 

Back on Live we had several communities built around creating and reviewing arcs, holding contests, etc etc. There were just so many story arcs that it was possible to level multiple characters entirely through MA, only playing story arcs (zero farming) and not repeating any content. Some people chronicled the progress of their character (also serving as a review thread) on the forums, which was great for highlighting story arcs while also providing an entertaining narrative. It is my hope that one day we'll have enough story arcs on Homecoming that this'll be possible here too!

[OEM61]

It kinda saddens me to see the common perception of the Mission Architect as "oh, it's that place for easy powerleveling/farming". Sure, that's a big part of what people used it for back in the day, but... there are also a lot of story arcs out there. Some of them are pretty great. Have you tried playing any of those? (search for 'SFMA' to find them more easily)

 

I realize that it's an unfair characterization, but I also think that the context here is clear.

 

I said in an earlier post that some people use them to build their own stories for their friends to play through, taking the missions they make completely out of the realm of "programmed superhero entertainment" and into "it's real to us" territory for those players, and that is a good way to do such things.

 

But you also know that there is a reason why many people see it as "that place to level up fast at".

And for every solid story you might find there, or even attempt at a real story instead of just an XP farm, I suspect that I would find one or more of those XP farms to go with it.

[Zaphir]

It kinda saddens me to see the common perception of the Mission Architect as "oh, it's that place for easy powerleveling/farming". Sure, that's a big part of what people used it for back in the day, but... there are also a lot of story arcs out there. Some of them are pretty great. Have you tried playing any of those? (search for 'SFMA' to find them more easily)

 

I realize that it's an unfair characterization, but I also think that the context here is clear.

 

I said in an earlier post that some people use them to build their own stories for their friends to play through, taking the missions they make completely out of the realm of "programmed superhero entertainment" and into "it's real to us" territory for those players, and that is a good way to do such things.

 

But you also know that there is a reason why many people see it as "that place to level up fast at".

And for every solid story you might find there, or even attempt at a real story instead of just an XP farm, I suspect that I would find one or more of those XP farms to go with it.

Maybe that's the perception now, but it certainly wasn't that way on live. Just off the top of my head, there was an alternate contact tree made up entirely from best-of-the-best MA storyarcs, a review thread for hundreds of stories (and there were tens of other threads like this, as well as a dedicated site and a podcast), MA-playing supergroups, and people making the aforementioned in-character-ish review threads of their 1-50 AE-only journey (part 2). So what changed?

 

BTW, the story arcs I mentioned are not really for RP within a small group of friends, they're story arcs intended for everyone, similar to the ones you see out in the world from contacts. See the SFMA thread. Of course I won't deny there are many farms -- there are way more farms than story arcs. That was pretty much always the case as long as MA existed, and wasn't helped by discoverability for story arcs being a HUGE issue (you could make a story arc and basically have no chance of it ever getting played). There seems to be something in the works in Homecoming, though (see sticky in MA forum).

 

Getting back to the OP, though, 'killing' AE is the wrong solution here, I think. It's very much a baby-with-the-bathwater kind of solution, and it's not like it's ever going to be possible to stop people farming and powerleveling (and why do you want to limit other peoples' playstyle anyway?)

[srmalloy]

Maybe that's the perception now, but it certainly wasn't that way on live. Just off the top of my head, there was an alternate contact tree made up entirely from best-of-the-best MA storyarcs, a review thread for hundreds of stories (and there were tens of other threads like this, as well as a dedicated site and a podcast), MA-playing supergroups, and people making the aforementioned in-character-ish review threads of their 1-50 AE-only journey (part 2). So what changed?

 

I think it's a combination of "I want my character(s) back the way they were before the shutdown" with the people pulled in from other games where everything up to level cap is just grinding and the 'real' content is all endgame. Both of them are out to pump their characters to the top as fast as they can, with the distinction that the ones recreating their old characters are the ones organizing the Incarnate trials and MSRs, while we see the ones pulled in from other games in the LFG channel with messages like "Lvl 50 [archetype] lf AE farm" or "lvl 50 [archetype] lf anything" because they don't know how much content is there and how to get to it, or don't want to play their shiny new combat monster in content where they're not going to be at full power.

 

How long did it take for the community of serious AE developers to form and build their content? All of us who played CoH have been scattered to the winds for seven years; it's going to take time to draw people back and rebuild the things that we had before. Clearly, from the level of... discomfort... with the number of people farming AE to the level cap, there's a desire for it to be used for more than just powerleveling, but we're going to need people building the content to have real, complex mission/arc stories in AE. I remember a similar flood of "AE babies" when it was originally released, and it eventually died back. There were always people who chose to use AE to powerlevel characters past all the content, because they were only interested in endgame, but I'd rather that we let them do what they want if it lets us rebuild the volume of good AE content that we used to have.

[justicebeliever]

My hope would be that HC could source new game content and story arcs from MA.  I need to go and check it out.  We do need to better spotlight as a community the great work that you guys do there.  I know i’ve seen posts in the MA forum, but I don’t drill in and read them.  Great callout Zaphir

 

[Bossk_Hogg]

We dont need to fragment the playerbase on a bunch of bespoke servers. This is a waste of money and time IMO. If you don't want to do AE stuff... don't do it. There are teams constantly forming in the LFG channel.

 

First off, I stated I enjoy the way the game is, I didn't make this thread cynically to get my own way. I just want to experience CoH before the massive building of heroes update. I have no butt with anyone else using the AE, I use it myself to play creative missions others create, the game is fun. All I want is to read and take what people think about the days without AE, I have no power to remove AE, its not under threat, I am just a user who came from a completely different timeline. I didn't say AE was the blight of the game, I wouldn't refer to other players/bases being the correct or incorrect way of playing, all I was suggesting is there a possibility, where there is a feature that would allow players to OPT-out (themselves, not others, themselves) prohibiting the use for AE & trading for a specific character. And if they could it would mean a lot to me.

 

A server with a disabled-AE, I am dismantled by what another person wrote, I didn't consider the possibility it would be popular enough to sustain itself.

Thank you, OEM61.

 

but again do I dare say, 99.9999>% chance it will not happen and I am not counting on it, but NOT mentioning is a complete 100% never, because if I didn't suggest it at all, how would others know players like I exist.

 

I don't find comments like, JUST ignore it to be useful. I think it contributes nothing, at least mention you're not interest in non-AE gameplay, and you prefer AE for all. At least that is helpful, my intention is not to forum-police you, not at all. I'd just prefer something that adds to the conversation, like the rest.

 

I thought it was obvious... Running a server takes money. You can already avoid AE by not playing AE. Setting up and coding server without AE is a waste of money and time for something you can simply do yourself instantly for free. Same with other nonsense like permadeath servers and the other random stuff people always ask for in these games.

[JJDrakken]

They can keep the buildings(Day Job)

 

All they have to do is reduce XP rewards of A.E. to 0, even cash rewards could be nerfed.

[justicebeliever]

They can keep the buildings(Day Job)

 

All they have to do is reduce XP rewards of A.E. to 0, even cash rewards could be nerfed.

 

Why would “they” need to do that?  And who is they?  Seriously, just asking

[Ghost49X]

If we were to start any "new server" I'd like it to be a regular xp cure without boosts. It's really annoying to outpace zones before I've had time to finish them. And no I don't like the idea of constantly freezing my xp because it gives me the impression that I'm not improving. Maybe this could apply both to regular content and xp from AE. On a side note, I'd be more open to trying AE missions if I wasn't under the impression that they were all farms and that it didn't jump me off course of my already fast xp curve.

[Moka]

I don't know what to say beyond the nature of this very game is farming. First AE will be removed, then DFB, then DiB, then ITF, then radio missions...

[Judasace]

I don'\t care if people sit in AE and farm all day. It is frustrating when you sometimes run into these people at 50 and they don't know the basics of how to play their character. Had to teach a Tank how to keep aggro while trying to run Numina on an alt, and he was exemping down to my level to play it.

 

I personally prefer to run the content...the rewards are high enough that I already have  several 50s fully IO'd out because they leveled off of content, gaining merits along the way.

 

I get the argument that people already did the content and just want to skip to  X level...I don't understand where the fun is in skipping most of the game just to run a few IO trials and move on to another, just collecting 50s like action figures and setting them on a shelf, but to each their own.

 

Hopefully most people that do it already know how to play the game and aren't leveled ina day in AE and then then run off and ruin content for others..pretty sure this was the cause of a BAF almost failing the other night. Prisoners were escaping like Clint Eastwood from Alcatraz all over the place and when I saw the people who were letting them get by...well the I had seen at least two of them asking really, really basic questions in chat just afew hours before...things like where to find the tailor and how to respec. These people weren't vets that had played the content and just wanted to skip to incarnate stuff. They were AE babies that almost botched a trail for 20 some other people.

 

Anyhow, play how you want, but if you want to do group content take the time and learn how your character works.

[Ghost49X]

I don't know what to say beyond the nature of this very game is farming. First AE will be removed, then DFB, then DiB, then ITF, then radio missions...

I don't want them removed, AE in particular has great RP potential. But doing any of the stuff you mentioned jumps me way ahead of mission arcs I'd like to complete at a normal pace. If they must have xp boosters, let them make it entirely optional and off by default. Stopping by the P2W vendor to grab a boost and rushing past content you don't want to do isn't as bad as trying to complete stuff that you want to do and out-leveling zones faster than you can complete them. It's also better for the player base to start slow and learn of the boost than rushing past the option.

[Moka]

You could always make it so you need one level 50 or at least a level 35 on an account before you can participate in an AE mission, but people'll likely just farm the Portal demon mission. Don't get me wrong, I'd love for everyone to go through the game the legit way at least once, but the amount of roadblocks that'd need to be put down would just end up hurting people their second time through.

[Herotu]

Let’s not turn this discussion into an unwinnable, unnecessary argument about AE farming.  If you play AE and have a reasonable request for change, then make it.

...

If you don’t play AE, that’s great.  I don’t either, but I won’t complain as long as no one makes me play it.

 

 

While I appreciate the notion of being able the play however one likes, I think it would be wise to consider the effect that farming has on both recipe AND inf supply.

 

I wonder what the net outcome from all of this activity is?

[Catgoyle]

I don't know what to say beyond the nature of this very game is farming.

 

Which sort of squeezes us "want to see the content I missed when it was live" people into soloing.

 

I feel like the odd man out not wanting to speedrun All The Alts to 50.

 

[OEM61]

It's a double-edged sword, right?

 

I mean, AE can be used by players to build content that they want to see.

It can be used by RPers to build massive story arcs for themselves to enjoy with the side-effect that others can play the same missions.

 

Imagine you and a few friends starting a SG and then each of you making massive 1-50 arcs for specific teams to run through;  You could make a magic-themed group and play a single 1-50 story where you are dealing with some supernatural threat, or a high-tech team and play a 1-50 story against some technological menace, or a group of mutants and play a 1-50 story where you face off against a group of evil mutants, and not to mention just having a band of random heroes brought together to fight the classic villain types.

 

AE allows that.  It can truly offer some amazing things in-game.  The quality may not always be there, but for people that are sincerely trying to craft adventures, AE is a wonderful tool.

 

But it also allows for missions that are nothing but XP farms.

 

It's easy to see the former as "artistic" and the latter as "trash", but they share one thing in common:  People that are playing those missions are not playing the missions that the devs put into the game.

 

So when people get frustrated about not being able to find people to group with to run non-AE content, AE itself becomes an easy target.

 

But a lot of people that take aim at AE seem to be suffering from tunnel vision.

Get rid of AE and DFB and old-fashioned PLing would grow.

 

The people that are racing to 50 through AE would just look for another way to race to 50, and that probably doesn't include running missions with randoms just looking for some people to play with.

[Burnt Toast]

Oh are we doing anecdotal stories...

 

Played with a guy on market crash - level 50 - 400+ badges - had no clue how to get to the zone.

Played on a team where the leader was bragging about their years of playing CoH and how he loved the Croatoa zone/arcs. We were doing a Katie TF - he was the only one who died (and he died MANY times) because he refused to stay out of melee as a blaster.

I can tell you horrible stories of people who have never been powerleveled and frankly just suck at playing the game.

 

Contrary to your example - most people who I know that do PL - are also min/maxers and know what they are doing. We are the ones who form TFs and groan when the randoms die or slow us down.

 

PLing doesn't make stupid players any more than any other way you can play this game.

 

 

I don'\t care if people sit in AE and farm all day. It is frustrating when you sometimes run into these people at 50 and they don't know the basics of how to play their character. Had to teach a Tank how to keep aggro while trying to run Numina on an alt, and he was exemping down to my level to play it.

 

I personally prefer to run the content...the rewards are high enough that I already have  several 50s fully IO'd out because they leveled off of content, gaining merits along the way.

 

I get the argument that people already did the content and just want to skip to  X level...I don't understand where the fun is in skipping most of the game just to run a few IO trials and move on to another, just collecting 50s like action figures and setting them on a shelf, but to each their own.

 

Hopefully most people that do it already know how to play the game and aren't leveled ina day in AE and then then run off and ruin content for others..pretty sure this was the cause of a BAF almost failing the other night. Prisoners were escaping like Clint Eastwood from Alcatraz all over the place and when I saw the people who were letting them get by...well the I had seen at least two of them asking really, really basic questions in chat just afew hours before...things like where to find the tailor and how to respec. These people weren't vets that had played the content and just wanted to skip to incarnate stuff. They were AE babies that almost botched a trail for 20 some other people.

 

Anyhow, play how you want, but if you want to do group content take the time and learn how your character works.

[Tahliah]

Every server can be non-AE. Just don't go there. How hard is that? 

 

If you are so "weak," as you self-proclaim, that you can't manage that, we are talking about your personal failings, not failings with AE.

 

A lot of people, myself included, enjoy expressing ourselves with AE story arcs.  My stories on live were not farms, so if we follow your logic, my sadz that everyone wasn't forced to run them is justification to force everyone to run them if they log in to [a] particular server. Right?  I haz feels and a sad!  I matter more than anyone evah!!!

 

Just stop.

[justicebeliever]

It's a double-edged sword, right?

 

I mean, AE can be used by players to build content that they want to see.

It can be used by RPers to build massive story arcs for themselves to enjoy with the side-effect that others can play the same missions.

 

Imagine you and a few friends starting a SG and then each of you making massive 1-50 arcs for specific teams to run through;  You could make a magic-themed group and play a single 1-50 story where you are dealing with some supernatural threat, or a high-tech team and play a 1-50 story against some technological menace, or a group of mutants and play a 1-50 story where you face off against a group of evil mutants, and not to mention just having a band of random heroes brought together to fight the classic villain types.

 

AE allows that.  It can truly offer some amazing things in-game.  The quality may not always be there, but for people that are sincerely trying to craft adventures, AE is a wonderful tool.

 

But it also allows for missions that are nothing but XP farms.

 

It's easy to see the former as "artistic" and the latter as "trash", but they share one thing in common:  People that are playing those missions are not playing the missions that the devs put into the game.

 

So when people get frustrated about not being able to find people to group with to run non-AE content, AE itself becomes an easy target.

 

But a lot of people that take aim at AE seem to be suffering from tunnel vision.

Get rid of AE and DFB and old-fashioned PLing would grow.

 

The people that are racing to 50 through AE would just look for another way to race to 50, and that probably doesn't include running missions with randoms just looking for some people to play with.

 

QFT - I remember people doing blind invites to get to PI to PL and the constant begging in some zones...that was the worst...DFB spam in LFG is nothing compared to that...

 

And you are right, players who want to level quickly, are always going to find the shortest path (and more power to them), and for many of them it will never include grinding through missions with me.  But I have been surprised often in this game (positively and negatively) by all kinds of players, so it's always a bad idea to "paint" a type of player with a broad brush. 

 

Something OEM61 did not do...+1 Inf

[Doctor Brainbottle]

Basically the game would need to be disassembled to tear the stuff out.

And unsure if the original versions of the map are available to reinstate.

Assume they would need to be created from scratch.

And then we'd have a second, separate code base for the game, simply so AE isn't then, WHEN YOU CAN SIMPLY AVOID IT YOURSELF.

 

Or, all the AE NPCs and interactables could be removed without changing the code at all.

 

I don't know that we need OP's suggestion, but this is a bit hyper...bolic.

 

Again, you're still maintaining a separate code base for something that's easily ignored.

Or are we going to get protests now for non-AE safe spaces?

 

I'm not a huge fan of actually DOING this, but saying it would require a seperate code base is hyperbole. I'm sure it could be implemented as a setting in some sort of config file somewhere.

[srmalloy]

I'm not a huge fan of actually DOING this, but saying it would require a seperate code base is hyperbole. I'm sure it could be implemented as a setting in some sort of config file somewhere.

 

Unless it was handled by actually taking the interior out of the map, the AE building in Echo: Galaxy City is evidence that it can be done; if you click on any of the doors, you get the stock "you cannot enter" popup for an inactive door. But without knowing what was done besides removing all of the interactive NPCs (BAB, vendors, contacts, etc.), I don't know if that's viable.

[Auroxis]

There's a reason AE XP was nerfed, a system that encourages players to run boring content for greater rewards is not optimal for servers with only a 1500 player capacity.

 

Right now AE is not an issue since people aren't really using AE for anything outside of soloing and powerleveling, but before the nerf it was rare to see teams forming for non-AE stuff.