Looking for end-all be-all tank for completion

[Drsnapion]

Hey everyone,

 

I'm looking for a character that really encompasses the "Superhero's Superhero" idea. I know each arch can do almost everything, and with IOs anything can really do anything, but I'm looking for a really strong tank that makes AVs cry and minions arrest themselves.

 

From browsing the forums (and since I don't have access to MIDS and I'm terrible at making builds), I've seen that invul/energy would be a really good idea for that Superman's idol idea. Invul sounds like it is subjectively the best for all content (including the +4/x8) end-game stuff, and energy is supposed to be good.

 

What're your thoughts? Invul/Energy? Again, I understand that everything is great but with my character page reaching it's limit full of level 2s-level 10s, I'd like a good idea to start running to collect all badges and making those newcomers mouth's drop.

 

Thanks 🙂

[Sovera]

You should look first into getting Mids. There is  too much nuanced information in a build to write down.

[ZemX]

There isn't any one best-at-everything tank.   

 

Defense is generally thought to be toughest though you also want to add resist to it to prevent quick spike deaths.  Shieled, Invuln, and SR tend to get listed most often as "toughest" to crack Tanks than I've seen.    But those won't necessarily be the most damaging tanks.  If "making AVs cry" means hurting them than you need more offense than a Tank built for survival typically has.  Then you might want to steer more towards something like Rad/SS or Bio/Fire or Fire/Anything.

 

Endgame is a whole other ball of wax if you mean Hard Mode TFs.  There you really need a good team around you and you might be in a situation where a resist or resist/heal tank does better than a pure defense tank.

 

All that said, you're absolutely not going to have any trouble with Inv/Energy and you will have plenty of "It's entirely possible I can't die!" feeling about it while also being able to lay the smack down with satisfying crunch.

[StriderIV]

What @ZemX said! Honestly it seems like every tanker primary can have an area where they are the “best.”

 

For me, across all content? I’d probably say I like my Shield Tanker the most. Positional defenses + some really decent resists underneath. Plus you can bring some extra defense you your team… what’s not to love?

 

That being said, even though it is great all around, there is some content that my Elec/DM or Dark/Staff Tankers will breeze through that my Shield/Elec would struggle with.

[MonteCarla]

I'm a huge fan of the Resistance/Damage auras sets, so Electric Armor, Dark Armor and Fire Armor. Its pretty easy to get 90% resists to all but a couple of damage types.

Resists are much harder to overpower than defence (a single Quartz emanator can neutralize any defence), and the damage auras work best when you can stand in the middle of a big group of enemies with impunity.

The obtrusive graphics make them less Superman-y than Invuln or Willpower, but that's between you and your concept.

 

Energy melee pairs with all of them well as the best single target damage set with the damage aura boosting the lesser AoE damage.

 

Check out the link in my sig for Resist brutes - there's a lot of Tank info there too if you choose this path.

[Psiphon]

1 hour ago, MonteCarla said:

I'm a huge fan of the Resistance/Damage auras sets, so Electric Armor, Dark Armor and Fire Armor. Its pretty easy to get 90% resists to all but a couple of damage types.

Resists are much harder to overpower than defence (a single Quartz emanator can neutralize any defence), and the damage auras work best when you can stand in the middle of a big group of enemies with impunity.

The obtrusive graphics make them less Superman-y than Invuln or Willpower, but that's between you and your concept.

 

Energy melee pairs with all of them well as the best single target damage set with the damage aura boosting the lesser AoE damage.

 

Check out the link in my sig for Resist brutes - there's a lot of Tank info there too if you choose this path.

DA also has the advantage of stun stacking with Oppressive Gloom, this greatly increases survivability. 

[Haijinx]

For me be all end all would include being able to exemplar down. 

 

That puts some sets that bloom late out of the running.

[Thraxen]

Make energy/inv scrapper. Mine tanks avs and hits super hard. 
 

Also, get mids. It’s free. Once you get the hang of it it is very easy to use. 

[Maelwys]

On 2/27/2024 at 4:36 PM, Drsnapion said:

Invul sounds like it is subjectively the best for all content (including the +4/x8) end-game stuff, and energy is supposed to be good.

 

What're your thoughts? Invul/Energy?  

🙂

 

Disclaimer: I mained an INV/SS for years on live, and I'm pretty familiar with EM (FA/EM Tank, plus a few Scrappers and Stalkers)

 

Invulnerablity is a very old powerset. Its main draw back in the day was that it could hit the Defense softcap (45%) to virtually everything whilst also hitting the hard cap for Smashing and Lethal damage resistance (via it's inherents plus the Fighting pool) and capped Maximum HP (via Dull Pain). Stone tanks could do the same, but came at a hefty penalty to damage output and recharge.

Fast forward several issues and other sets like Willpower and Dark Armour became available, and INV lost a lot of it's lustre. Willpower could do all INV could do (except completely cap Maximum HP permanently) but it had substantially higher regen and performed much better versus Psychic foes and Malta. Dark Armour could recover to full HP and Endurance every few seconds as long as it was surrounded by enough weaker foes of any type. Etc.

 

IOs muddied the waters a bit. INV tanks could get perma Dull Pain with little effort, whilst also plugging holes in their Psychic + Elemental resistances or heightening their regeneration. With a good IO build they nearly matched Willpower as an exceptionally good all-rounder, with WP having a bit more Regeneration and INV a bit more Defense and maximum HP.

With Incarnates? INV became even better at plugging it's resistance holes (as just a T4 Alpha slot by itself takes sooo much pressure off slotting for enough +Recharge for Perma DP or enough +Defence to hit the softcap to everything with just a single foe in 'Invincibility')

Archetype Origin enhancements sealed the deal. A decently built INV can keep the resistance buff double-stacked constantly.

 

These days an INV can still hit the regular 45% Defense softcap and S/L Resistance hard cap with just SO enhancements. Throw in enough IOs and a set of T4 Incarnate abilities and they can also hit the 59% hard mode defense softcap whilst having Perma Dull Pain and considerably higher damage resistance to types other than S/L. They will still never be *quite* as good as a DA tank versus Psychic foes, and they might need a heal occasionally in hard mode TFs, but other than that (or enough stacked Mez to overcome Unyielding, in which case you have Unstoppable) they are functionally immortal. And they exemplar exceptionally well.

 

Energy Melee has been the subject of a great many nerfs and buffs over the years. In its present state (and thanks to the tanker inherent that buffs AoE radius) it is rather decent. Disorient is a little less team friendly than Knockdown but you can stack it enough to Mez bosses, and Energy Transfer is also unlikely to get you killed whenever you're passively regenerating enough Hit Points to ignore it.

 

As a combination, an INV/EM should be very tough to kill and deal reasonably high damage (for a tank) but you likely won't be able to solo VERY tough foes without -Regeneration debuffs from the P2W temp powers or Lore pets.

EDIT: Since a picture is worth a thousand words, here's a quick example of one of my INV/SS build's defences (with one foe in Invincibility range and no clicky Incarnates running) which is built as an all-rounder rather than for sky-high Defence/Damage/etc. It typically has another 6.7%-13.4% Resistance to everything on top of this due to the SMoT Proc; (roughly 67% chance for 3 stacks and  25% chance for 2 stacks) and its baseline regeneration is 40HP/Sec plus 2x Power Transfer and 1x Panacea Healing Procs. Can also gain more self-healing potential or +Def and +Res via clickies (like Barrier Destiny etc.) on demand if required.

Edited March 3 by Maelwys

[tidge]

On 2/27/2024 at 11:36 AM, Drsnapion said:

I'm looking for a character that really encompasses the "Superhero's Superhero" idea. I know each arch can do almost everything, and with IOs anything can really do anything, but I'm looking for a really strong tank that makes AVs cry and minions arrest themselves.

 

What're your thoughts? Invul/Energy? Again, I understand that everything is great but with my character page reaching it's limit full of level 2s-level 10s, I'd like a good idea to start running to collect all badges and making those newcomers mouth's drop.

 

Those who want to impress this newcomer (points to self): Have the Tank exclusively run Shadow Shard cave missions at +4x8.

[Biff Pow]

3 hours ago, tidge said:

 

Those who want to impress this newcomer (points to self): Have the Tank exclusively run Shadow Shard cave missions at +4x8.

 

I like doing this because I actually take some damage for a change.

[Zect]

Bio/ or rad/ are the best overall sets. other armors surpass them in specific areas, but these two offer a balance of offensive and defensive power plus multiply layered defenses that hold up against a wide variety of enemy types.
 

For 2ndary, there are a lot of good choices. I like SS, savage, TW (SS is very good but you really need to know how to build around the rage mechanic). 

[Shadowstorm06]

1 hour ago, Zect said:

Bio/ or rad/ are the best overall sets. other armors surpass them in specific areas, but these two offer a balance of offensive and defensive power plus multiply layered defenses that hold up against a wide variety of enemy types.
 

For 2ndary, there are a lot of good choices. I like SS, savage, TW (SS is very good but you really need to know how to build around the rage mechanic). 

I’ve looked at Titan Weapons on a Scrapper paired with Bio. One of the reasons I was thinking MAYBE it’d run better on a Tanker is because, since they are tougher, it gives you more leeway to build up momentum. I could be completely off on this though!

[Azari]

On 3/1/2024 at 9:03 AM, Thraxen said:

Make energy/inv scrapper. Mine tanks avs and hits super hard. 
 

Also, get mids. It’s free. Once you get the hang of it it is very easy to use. 

I’m curious about invuln on scrappers. It seems uncommon. You enjoy it? Energy/invuln seems like something I’d enjoy. invuln is just cool.

Edited March 7 by Azari

[Thraxen]

30 minutes ago, Azari said:

I’m curious about invuln on scrappers. It seems uncommon. You enjoy it? Energy/invuln seems like something I’d enjoy. invuln is just cool.

Yes I love it. My main is sav/inv vamp themed. His just about unkillable. Last time he died was off tanking 4 star ITF rom. He has shadow meld for thematic reasons but uses it some on hard mode. 
 

Energy/inc is just a single target machine. Not a durable but rarely does too. 

[Ashford]

I would not say bio is "Best" it's more of a toolkit resist set than practical from a gameplay perspective. elec is less hassle than bio. Rad is more accessible and there is almost no flaw with it except for it's cooldowns which needs investment to fix on top of plugging the resist holes. Bio needs an entire rotation just to mitigate a bunch of damage. 

Edited April 11 by Ashford

[Drsnapion]

On 3/1/2024 at 7:03 AM, Thraxen said:

Make energy/inv scrapper. Mine tanks avs and hits super hard. 
 

Also, get mids. It’s free. Once you get the hang of it it is very easy to use. 

Do you have your build available? I ended up making one and am excited about the idea of something like that!

[Infinitum]

On 4/10/2024 at 11:12 PM, Ashford said:

I would not say bio is "Best" it's more of a toolkit resist set than practical from a gameplay perspective. elec is less hassle than bio. Rad is more accessible and there is almost no flaw with it except for it's cooldowns which needs investment to fix on top of plugging the resist holes. Bio needs an entire rotation just to mitigate a bunch of damage. 

 

In the right hands Bio is up there in terms of survivability with Shield and SR - Which IMO are the best because it takes a magnitude of stuff going all wrong to kill them - which hardly ever happens outside of hardmode. 

 

Bio also brings 3 debuffs to the table plus a whole heap of damage potential that when tapped is second to none in the right hands. 

 

In fact it's probably a little too strong - which is why I predict a gentle nerf at some point in the future.

 

Very fun set though. The more I play it - and the more I tinker with it - the more I like it. 

 

In terms of set it and forget it power - Shield and SR are tops - highest DDR, easy to incarnate soft cap defenses, great resistances, +recharge for SR, +damage and team buff for shield +shield charge a mini nuke.   90% of normal gameplay won't even flinch - and the other 10% will only tickle. 

 

Invul isn't far behind those also - just slightly less DDR which is only noticeable in a select few engagements. 

[Zect]

Bio is best because it has everything. It has mitigation, sustain, and dps. Its mitigation is a combination between def and res. Its sustain is a split between regen, direct healing, and absorb. Its dps is a mix of self +dmg +tohit and enemy -regen -res. It even has strong debuff resists (missing mainly -def) and an excellent endurance economy.

 

When you have this kind of layered, well-synergized defense and offense that is unlikely to be neutered by any single foe, and when you have high values in all three variables of the Tanker Equation (survivability = mitigation * healing * dps), you have the best armor set in the game. However, bio is not an afk set. You might need to press a button every now and then to live.

[Erratic1]

On 3/6/2024 at 9:11 PM, Azari said:

I’m curious about invuln on scrappers. It seems uncommon. You enjoy it? Energy/invuln seems like something I’d enjoy. invuln is just cool.

 

Back in the day, DM/Inv was a Scrapper standard for mini-tanking. 

6 hours ago, Infinitum said:

 

In fact it's probably a little too strong - which is why I predict a gentle nerf at some point in the future.

 

I'll believe it when I see the much predicting proc nerf.

 

5 hours ago, Zect said:

When you have this kind of layered, well-synergized defense and offense that is unlikely to be neutered by any single foe, and when you have high values in all three variables of the Tanker Equation (survivability = mitigation * healing * dps), you have the best armor set in the game. However, bio is not an afk set. You might need to press a button every now and then to live.

 

Yep, the clicks are important. Besides, I thought Stone was the acknowledged toughest set.

[Sovera]

Bio is perfectly tailored for the current meta. Ablative is up at every spawn (under 30 seconds recharge) and soaks half the HP of the Tanker, and then DNA Siphon ALSO is up at every spawn healing, boosting regen, recovering endurance and recovery itself. After those two the mobs need to debuff defense in order to have a chance since between the damage boost, the -res, and BU + Gaussian most things are going to be limping.

 

In fact, I haven't done a Bio Tanker yet in all my years. Time to do a Bio/Fire!

[bAss_ackwards]

1 hour ago, Erratic1 said:

Back in the day, DM/Inv was a Scrapper standard for mini-tanking.

It still is! I remade my main from the live servers back in the day the moment I heard news a while back that Homecoming got the official license.

Succubus Kali - Scrapper (Dark Melee - Invulnerability)-v006-Incarnate.mbd

Edited April 15 by bAss_ackwards

[Zect]

6 hours ago, Erratic1 said:

Yep, the clicks are important. Besides, I thought Stone was the acknowledged toughest set.

 

Stone has the best mitigation out of the box.

 

That is not necessarily the same as best, which is what OP asked and what I answered, or even toughest in certain situations. While both are extremely powerful in coh due to accelerating returns, res doesn't protect against irresistible attacks, nor def against autohit (or just annoyingly high tohit) ones, but healing, absorb, and regen work against both. In hard mode, where all armor sets operate near or at mit caps, a tank's dps output becomes more relevant than ever; every second the AV stays alive is a second more for someone to screw up and wipe, losing lore pets.

 

The OP is asking for the "hero's hero". The tank that, and I quote, "makes AVs cry and minions arrest themselves". The OP sees attracted to the tank that they view as "subjectively the best for all content, including endgame".

 

To me, it seems like the OP is looking for something other than the Great Meat Wall of China (though there's no shame if that's what you'd rather play) - something more like a tankhealermage. That's why I say, if you want the fastest hero, play the Flash; the strongest, the Hulk; but if you want Superman, play Bio Armor.

Edited April 15 by Zect

[Sovera]

I think Bio/Fire would fit. Fire Melee (and being a Tanker with the inherent) with two PbAoEs already takes care of the AoE.

 

What are the usual woes of a Tanker? Whittling down bosses. Bio is great for ST damage between +damage and -res, and then we cheekily sneak another -res into Fire Sword. I usually poopoo on -res attacks but Fire Sword already has two procs and good stats so might as well add a third one that helps more than adding a smash or slash damage proc. The real speedbumps are the AVs anyway.

 

 

After the post above I tinkered one up. I decided to ignore my usual attempts at raising S/L defense since this is a Tanker who has capped S/L resistances (with a second ATO proc and Barrier) and focused on E/N and the usual. Despite the Offensive Adaptation penalty it still ends with capped S/L as mentioned and a decent 50% E/N, plus 6.7% for a second ATO stack, plus 5% from Barrier, for a decent 62%... and if a third ATO proc happens to happen (unreliable though) then 69% (nice).

 

I could have added the Theft of Essence to DNA Siphon which is smarter, but, I wanted the E/N more. Regardless there is over 2 EPS (I say over because Focused Accuracy is still with the old values which have been halved, so it should not be 0.42 as FA shows in Mids) plus four different endurance procs.

 

Plus a decent-ish 55 HP regen a second, plus almost 1900 shield up every 30 seconds.

 

Should be fine.

 

This is the exemplaring version where we can roam the exemplaring spectrum from Posi 1 to the ITF, but the non exemplaring version only replaces Scorch for Incinerate with Inexhaustible taking Scorch's place. From Posi 1 to Synapse the non exemplaring version has a grand total of one ST attack, but for Yin and up it has the full rotation.

 

Tanker (Bio Armor - Fiery Melee - Exemplaring).mbd

 

 

Edited April 15 by Sovera

[Thraxen]

16 hours ago, Drsnapion said:

Do you have your build available? I ended up making one and am excited about the idea of something like that!

 

Here one a bit old now.  It's good and a lot of fun.

Cosmic Thrax Energy Inv Scrap 2021 redo.mxd