Expanding Portal Corps missions (more lore, experimentation, etc.)

[Greycat]

So I'm running through Maria Jenkins' missions, fighting stuff in Warrior Earth and thinking... why is it like this? That Earth, not the mission. While we have (obviously) a "deep dive" into Praetoria, we get 1-2 missions in many other dimensions that probably could have some interesting lore - or do, but nobody wanders onto the wiki to read it.

 

So why not give Portal corps more of a purpose? Instead of just sticking a toe into Axis Earth for a mission or two, get a chance to fight them - or as an alternative mission, since not every character's theme is "front line fighter," run aid and suppliess to resistance groups? Get at least a full arc in Warrior Earth. Get a good look at a Nictus-ized Earth - there's got to be more *somewhere* than War Wolves. Portal could be a wellspring of missions full of "what ifs."

 

And it could open up some creativity, too. Stuff that wouldn't necessarily fit with lore *now,* but might be fun to poke around in. What horrors await on Catgirl Earth? (Empress Mynx?)  What if ancient Egypt never fell, but really did conquer the world through tech and magic (yes, I do still want Blood of the Black Stream arcs, which have a *touch* of the same thing, but this is a "writ large" of that - at one point I'd created an AE which included an "Egyptron" group, so... it's been brewing a while for me.) What if there's an Earth where Hamidon really is the hero?

 

Use Portal to give more of a look at some of the side lore, some of the 'other worlds,' and arcs for stuff that wouldn't necessarily fit in existing lore but might still be fun to explore without an impact on the main timeline.

[Chris24601]

Related: now that the Shadow Shard can be accessed via the RWZ, it probably needs an update with villain access (or at least rogue repeatable missions) and replacing the old generic soldiers with Vanguard (according to the lore the troops in the shard have always been Vanguard, they just hadn’t been given spiffy purple/grey impervium armor because those assets didn’t exist at the time).

 

So my thoughts are;

- Replace the generic soldiers with Vanguard troops.

- Add villain (or at least Rogue) repeatable contacts in the Shadow Shard.

- Create level 40+ versions of the Rulu-Shin who have snuck their way into the Shard.

- Create an actual Zone story arc for the Shard that is more than just introducing the repeatable contacts… see Rulu-Shin above for potential enemy group involved in that story arc.

- According to the lore the human refugees are shadow copies of people created along with a shadow copy of part of Paragon City created when the Shard was. Consider adding some ruined city buildings and perhaps camps of the himan survivors scattered throughout the zone to display that aspect of the zone (i.e. it’s actually NOT a natural alternate dimension; it’s a finite prison dimension created to contain Rularuu.

[Sunsette]

I think my biggest issue with portal corps missions as an idea is that all of the dimensions we travel to through Tina et al. look like ours and the idea tends to feel flat and underwhelming pretty quickly. Cryptic and Paragon didn't have the dev teams necessary to create the art for meaningfully distinct settings most of the time, and Homecoming is even more strained on this front. Praetoria gave the depth we needed to appreciate the subtle differences. 

 

I'm kind of skeptical that doing this right -- meaning not like it's been done in the game so far for the most part -- is actually feasible, though I'm not per se against it. 

Edited March 18 by Sunsette

[Lockely]

I posted a similar topic a little while back about Tina MacIntyre's missions too.

 

All the Portal Corps missions in PI could use a major rework. A ton of them are basic filler because Cryptic needed farm content at endgame before we had radio/paper missions. Even post GR the reworks they did were done in the least involved possible way, keeping their overall pre-GR structure and not utilizing them anywhere close to their full potential.

 

 

[Lockely]

57 minutes ago, Sunsette said:

I think my biggest issue with portal corps missions as an idea is that all of the dimensions we travel to through Tina et al. look like ours and the idea tends to feel flat and underwhelming pretty quickly. Cryptic and Paragon didn't have the dev teams necessary to create the art for meaningfully distinct settings most of the time, and Homecoming is even more strained on this front. Praetoria gave the depth we needed to appreciate the subtle differences. 

 

I'm kind of skeptical that doing this right -- meaning not like it's been done in the game so far for the most part -- is actually feasible, though I'm not per se against it. 

 

I think there's enough map possibilities that we can do it relatively right, as so much of CoH is theater of the mind as we explore the Office Building Backrooms for the umpteenth time. The art assets may not be creatable at this point with the team HC has, but there's enough in-game to mix-match as needed.

 

For example:
 

3 hours ago, Greycat said:

What if ancient Egypt never fell, but really did conquer the world through tech and magic (yes, I do still want Blood of the Black Stream arcs, which have a *touch* of the same thing, but this is a "writ large" of that - at one point I'd created an AE which included an "Egyptron" group, so... it's been brewing a while for me.)

 

We could use the Golden Giza from St. Martial as a base for a high-tech Egypt, just remove the gaudy text off the front (or cover it with something so you don't have to update the model). The enemy group could be built with existing parts (though more options would never be unwanted!) with the Stheno model serving as a stand-in for a Serpent Guard with maybe Sirocco as an emissary/second in command to an unseen Emperor/Empress.

[Saiyajinzoningen]

tbh i thought portal corp was gonna be what AE kinda is.

not the part where we make our own stuff

but the part where its all randomly weird and wild stories that don't take place in our dimension 😞

 

[Rudra]

6 hours ago, Greycat said:

Get a good look at a Nictus-ized Earth - there's got to be more *somewhere* than War Wolves.

Per Requiem's message, no, there isn't. He is the only non-wolf anywhere in that world.

 

6 hours ago, Greycat said:

fighting stuff in Warrior Earth and thinking... why is it like this? That Earth, not the mission.

According to what the mission(s) say, they destroyed their own world. Like the Mandalorians did to their worlds like in Star Wars Rebels said. Lots of different tribes/groups fighting each other and just obliterating everything to ensure the other side doesn't have anything useful to use against them.

 

More content delving into the lightly covered lore of the game would be nice, yes. However, at least 2 of your questions are answered in their missions.

[sbloyd]

17 hours ago, Rudra said:

Per Requiem's message, no, there isn't. He is the only non-wolf anywhere in that world.

 

Pretty sure they mean a look at a *different* Nictus-y Earth, one where instead of everyone becoming a Warwolf something different happened.

[Greycat]

22 hours ago, Rudra said:

Per Requiem's message, no, there isn't. He is the only non-wolf anywhere in that world.

 

You trust Requiem? 😉 

 

Besides, something like that (a) would still be worth investigating and (b) - well, the actual Kheldian war story isn't *really* touched on a lot, and I don't think people *really* see the Nictus as a threat other than "another enemy group" (and even then mostly interact with them in Cimerora... which ... yeah, that whole storyline's just weird.) I'd like to expose more of that - and having an arc where you basically get into "an end result" of what the Nictus can do might help that out. (Or, perhaps you manage to spark what we see as Warshades there...)

 

(I'm biased towards seeing more squiddy stuff in game, what can I say 😄 )

[Rudra]

58 minutes ago, Greycat said:

You trust Requiem? 😉 

 

Given it was basically his diary and was there long before your character arrives to check that dimension, yes, I do. He has also been quite honest in the Ubelmann arc. So sometimes he can be trusted, to a certain extent....

 

1 hour ago, Greycat said:

Besides, something like that (a) would still be worth investigating and

Believe me, I'm with you on that. As well as the other dimensions you go to through Portal Corps. The only one that gets any real exploration is the Shadow Shard. I was just pointing out what the game already says about those two specific worlds in response to your questions. I mean at least in those two worlds you destroyed, you get the basic information about those two worlds. More lore is a welcome thing.

[tidge]

I am more interested in leveraging Portal Corps to explore existing parts of the lore... Such as Superadine.

[Jiro Ito]

On 3/18/2024 at 4:02 AM, Greycat said:

So I'm running through Maria Jenkins' missions, fighting stuff in Warrior Earth and thinking... why is it like this? That Earth, not the mission. While we have (obviously) a "deep dive" into Praetoria, we get 1-2 missions in many other dimensions that probably could have some interesting lore - or do, but nobody wanders onto the wiki to read it.

 

So why not give Portal corps more of a purpose? Instead of just sticking a toe into Axis Earth for a mission or two, get a chance to fight them - or as an alternative mission, since not every character's theme is "front line fighter," run aid and suppliess to resistance groups? Get at least a full arc in Warrior Earth. Get a good look at a Nictus-ized Earth - there's got to be more *somewhere* than War Wolves. Portal could be a wellspring of missions full of "what ifs."

 

And it could open up some creativity, too. Stuff that wouldn't necessarily fit with lore *now,* but might be fun to poke around in. What horrors await on Catgirl Earth? (Empress Mynx?)  What if ancient Egypt never fell, but really did conquer the world through tech and magic (yes, I do still want Blood of the Black Stream arcs, which have a *touch* of the same thing, but this is a "writ large" of that - at one point I'd created an AE which included an "Egyptron" group, so... it's been brewing a while for me.) What if there's an Earth where Hamidon really is the hero?

 

Use Portal to give more of a look at some of the side lore, some of the 'other worlds,' and arcs for stuff that wouldn't necessarily fit in existing lore but might still be fun to explore without an impact on the main timeline.

 

*steals Greycat's best ideas and trundles off to the Architect*

[biostem]

Maybe it's just me, but besides some background NPCs in labcoats in some of the Portal Corps interiors, who do they actually employ?  Do they have their own security forces?  We have what appears to be US Military in the Shadow Shard, but surely Portal Corps would have access to units similar to the PPD, or maybe even Vanguard.  I'd love to see some of that kind of stuff implemented...

[Greycat]

8 hours ago, tidge said:

I am more interested in leveraging Portal Corps to explore existing parts of the lore... Such as Superadine.

 

I'm assuming you know about their connection already?

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, biostem said:

Maybe it's just me, but besides some background NPCs in labcoats in some of the Portal Corps interiors, who do they actually employ?  Do they have their own security forces?  We have what appears to be US Military in the Shadow Shard, but surely Portal Corps would have access to units similar to the PPD, or maybe even Vanguard.  I'd love to see some of that kind of stuff implemented...

To the best of my knowledge, Portal Corps does not maintain their own security force. Instead, they rely on hero support, the PPD, and Longbow to deal with various problems that may arise.

[TheMoneyMaker]

Would love to see a world where our AVs are the signature heroes. Maybe use the Recluse Victory map and explain the state of things as things have gone poorly under their watch when the Rikti attacked, especially if our signature heroes were the AVs but were already defeated or just don't exist and there's no Vanguard to unite anyone.

[Rudra]

28 minutes ago, TheMoneyMaker said:

Would love to see a world where our AVs are the signature heroes. Maybe use the Recluse Victory map and explain the state of things as things have gone poorly under their watch when the Rikti attacked, especially if our signature heroes were the AVs but were already defeated or just don't exist and there's no Vanguard to unite anyone.

Technically it already exists? In Praetoria, our signature heroes are the villains. It's just that the signature villains you may be looking for are dead. I mean, Belladonna Vetrano and Vanessa Devore exist and seem rather heroic to me, and Riptide is actually trying to do good and look after the people of Praetoria, but basically Praetoria is inverse City of Heroes. (Edit: Obviously not a complete or true reflection, but still.)

Edited March 23 by Rudra

[Lockely]

3 hours ago, biostem said:

Maybe it's just me, but besides some background NPCs in labcoats in some of the Portal Corps interiors, who do they actually employ?  Do they have their own security forces?  We have what appears to be US Military in the Shadow Shard, but surely Portal Corps would have access to units similar to the PPD, or maybe even Vanguard.  I'd love to see some of that kind of stuff implemented...

There's only one team for the job...

 

(These are not real characters HC don't generic my account)

[ThatGuyCDude]

  

On 3/18/2024 at 12:28 PM, Rudra said:

Per Requiem's message, no, there isn't. He is the only non-wolf anywhere in that world.

What's odd, though, and never properly explored, is that Requiem always resorts to War Wolves.  He and Arakhn have the same goal (subjugate as many humans as possible as Nictus hosts) and utilize the same technique (fragmenting a Nictus in order to spread it out over several hosts), yet Requiem never attempts or even considers making Galaxy troops he can control... instead he only makes War Wolves.  As bio weapons go they can't be beat, but they do seem to violate the goals of the Nictus at large, and in a world of eternal night there would be no shortage of unbound Nictus (thereby being no need for the fragmentation).  So why is Requiem the lone full host in that dimension?  How did he beat Arakhn?  There's a Council victorious world which should also be shrouded in eternal night, though its only aspect depicted is its totalitarian fascism... why wasn't that universe disintegrating too?

It might be interesting to visit a different world where Requiem and Arakhn are still engaged in active combat over control of a world of shadows: the former fighting for absolute chaos and the latter for absolute order, with the planet ripped apart by both extremes.  Maybe that's the world where Hamidon is actually the hero, trying to save the dying war-torn Earth from the darkness.  It's something to at least explore in Architect Entertainment, as opposed to all of the 'one faction is victorious' worlds the Portal Corps sends the player to explore.

[I'd also personally like more clarification as to what the deal is with the War Wolves.  They're fundamentally identical to the Galaxy troops, yet they're subject to a constant (mostly) uncontrolled shapeshift state, in a form that doesn't match those we've seen Kheldians duplicate.  Is this shapeshift indicative of an unwilling host?  And where did the wolf form come from anyway?  Did Requiem make an attack dog an intermediate Nictus host and then fragment it for mass-distribution, causing these partial transformations, or is it another echo of a previous host alien lifeform?  Is Arakhn using the same technique?  Is that why failed Galaxy troops become War Wolves too?  The MoonFire task force barely scratched the surface of this topic; it'd be nice to have a quest line to explain it, preferably one that isn't on warp speed because it's a team activity.]

 

 

Which raises questions of other 'victory' universes.  How did the Freakshow conquer their world?  Is Flambeaux their undisputed celebrity leader, like she is in all her Hero Tip Mission appearances?  Would she be wanting to reach across dimensions to become the greatest pop-star in the multiverse?  Inquiring minds want to know!

[tidge]

10 hours ago, Greycat said:

 

I'm assuming you know about their connection already?

 

All I know is:

 

Spoiler

• There is an implication (from History, Exploration) that Superadine originally had an extra-dimensional source
• There is a "Fixadine" drug from Praetoria
• Praetoria's Malaise has a different sort of chemical concoction in his Brickstown sewer mission
• The King's Row Skulls arc calls out that the Skulls are making Superadine
• The Family arcs imply that they are distributing it, but this doesn't appear to be part of the lore for either the non-Primal family or the high-level Family

 

So... No. If there is a deeper tie to early Gold side or somewhere else, I've missed it, and I want to say (bias!) that it must be easy to miss.(*1)

 

AFAIK we never see "Trolls" except on Primal Earth, and the other "drug" missions are almost entirely sub-40 content... I kinda feel that there is a lot of daylight between whatever the Lore is on this subject and actual playable content. I realize that not all enemy groups scale up to 40+, and that this impedes adding them to high-level content in a meaningful way, but the (Live) scaling of the Family was something I liked, and the Homecoming scaling of the Vahzilok and Goldbrickers has been well-done IMO.

 

(*1) Something I feel that is in the category of "unless you do a wide variety of content, you miss it" are the limited number if red-side missions where you more-or-less finally see the Circle of Thorns "possessing" scientists. Without any sort of mission-based explanation, it makes little sense (to me) why the Portal Corps parking lot is thick with them. Head canon doesn't really count as canon.

[tidge]

1 hour ago, ThatGuyCDude said:

 [I'd also personally like more clarification as to what the deal is with the War Wolves.  They're fundamentally identical to the Galaxy troops, yet they're subject to a constant (mostly) uncontrolled shapeshift state, in a form that doesn't match those we've seen Kheldians duplicate.  Is this shapeshift indicative of an unwilling host?  And where did the wolf form come from anyway?  Did Requiem make an attack dog an intermediate Nictus host and then fragment it for mass-distribution, causing these partial transformations, or is it another echo of a previous host alien lifeform?  Is Arakhn using the same technique?  Is that why failed Galaxy troops become War Wolves too?  The MoonFire task force barely scratched the surface of this topic; it'd be nice to have a quest line to explain it, preferably one that isn't on warp speed because it's a team activity.

 

Shadowstar's (Warshade contact) arcs includes a lot of details on Warwolves, etc. It may not be entirely satisfying for what you seek. One of the arcs takes place mostly on Striga, FWIW.

 

The one area of Council/5th Column disconnected Lore that has always bothered me (despite me trying to pay attention to the Citadel and Hess TFs, and the level-missions involving AI, Mek-Men et al) is that I haven't encountered any sort of explanation about the Hoverbots. Ok... Vandal played some part in creating them, but these things have quite a bit of NPC dialogue that doesn't exactly make them feel like relatively simple robots! It's not clear that they share anything in common with Malta's bots... but their dialogue sometimes creeps me out!

 

 

[Glacier Peak]

I'm all for it!

 

 

[Rudra]

6 hours ago, ThatGuyCDude said:

why wasn't that universe disintegrating too?

At the end of the arc, Requiem leaves you a message explaining that he was trying to destroy the multiverse as a sort of revenge for the position he put himself in and to end his own suffering.

 

6 hours ago, ThatGuyCDude said:

There's a Council victorious world which should also be shrouded in eternal night, though its only aspect depicted is its totalitarian fascism...

Council Empire Earth was conquered by the Council, not overrun by the Nictus that were turning humans into War Wolves. So it is being led by the Council rather than their Nictus allies, who may not have actually allied with them in that dimension.

 

6 hours ago, ThatGuyCDude said:

I'd also personally like more clarification as to what the deal is with the War Wolves.  They're fundamentally identical to the Galaxy troops, yet they're subject to a constant (mostly) uncontrolled shapeshift state, in a form that doesn't match those we've seen Kheldians duplicate.  Is this shapeshift indicative of an unwilling host?  And where did the wolf form come from anyway?

The lore behind the War Wolves and the Vampyri has been changing over time. Over time the War Wolves were failed Nictus fusions, were punishment for soldiers, were improved troops, and more. Until the lore is finally pinned down and not subject to further change, I doubt we will get information as to why Galaxies, Wolves, and Vampyri are all different but utilize the same source.

 

As I said, I'm open to more lore explaining things in the game, and want it as much as anyone else. However, some of the questions being asked are already (at least partially) answered.

[Rudra]

4 hours ago, tidge said:

 

All I know is:

 

  Hide contents

• There is an implication (from History, Exploration) that Superadine originally had an extra-dimensional source
• There is a "Fixadine" drug from Praetoria
• Praetoria's Malaise has a different sort of chemical concoction in his Brickstown sewer mission
• The King's Row Skulls arc calls out that the Skulls are making Superadine
• The Family arcs imply that they are distributing it, but this doesn't appear to be part of the lore for either the non-Primal family or the high-level Family

 

So... No. If there is a deeper tie to early Gold side or somewhere else, I've missed it, and I want to say (bias!) that it must be easy to miss.(*1)

 

AFAIK we never see "Trolls" except on Primal Earth, and the other "drug" missions are almost entirely sub-40 content... I kinda feel that there is a lot of daylight between whatever the Lore is on this subject and actual playable content. I realize that not all enemy groups scale up to 40+, and that this impedes adding them to high-level content in a meaningful way, but the (Live) scaling of the Family was something I liked, and the Homecoming scaling of the Vahzilok and Goldbrickers has been well-done IMO.

 

(*1) Something I feel that is in the category of "unless you do a wide variety of content, you miss it" are the limited number if red-side missions where you more-or-less finally see the Circle of Thorns "possessing" scientists. Without any sort of mission-based explanation, it makes little sense (to me) why the Portal Corps parking lot is thick with them. Head canon doesn't really count as canon.

Superadine and Fixadine are similar drugs with most of their components being the same, but they are not the same drug. I'm chalking that up to convergent evolution rather than Superadine originating from Praetoria. (Note that this does not mean Superadine could not have come from another dimension.) The Destroyers are the Praetorian version of Trolls. They just have more of their minds left over from that subtle difference between Fixadine and Superadine. And yes, there is another dimension you can visit that is all Trolls. I believe you can visit it in 2 different missions, but at the very least you go there once to save them from the Primal Earth Circle of Thorns.

[Rudra]

4 hours ago, tidge said:

Hoverbots. Ok... Vandal played some part in creating them, but these things have quite a bit of NPC dialogue that doesn't exactly make them feel like relatively simple robots! It's not clear that they share anything in common with Malta's bots... but their dialogue sometimes creeps me out!

Even the Vahzilok zombies have full dialogues. It pretty much depends on if say patrols or non-boss spawns are supposed to have dialogue for the mission and what the game decides to pull as the minions in that group. Hells, in one Vahzilok mission I've done, the "boss" leading the attack was an embalmed cadaver on multiple occasions instead of a Reaper because the boss at that time is a minion and the game pulled the cadaver from the pool of minions available.