The Acolyte

[Techwright]

Disney/Star Wars is stating that their first trailer for The Acolyte, their Sith-centric tale set during the High Republic era (when Yoda was young...er), is set to drop tomorrow, March 19, 2024 according to Superherohype.com.  The announcement was accompanied by a new poster showing a blood trail imitating the look of a red lightsaber.

 

The blood trail poster, taken with the understanding that this is the first canon Sith-centric tale, has me wondering what level of violence this thing will be.

 

For those not familiar, the High Republic is a period of about 500 years prior to the Prequel Movies timeline, in which the Jedi were wildly dominant, the Sith were (incorrectly) believed gone or completely ineffective, leading to a certain arrogance and lax approach from the Jedi Order.  To this date, I think the only current on-screen canon elements from them come from the recent, canonical video game, Jedi: Survivor.  Members of the High Republic Jedi Order were key to laying the foundation for the events that play out in the game, and part of their tale is told in flashbacks. 

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

So here it is. Feast your eyes, but do not let them deceive you...

 

And now, enter the Dark Vergence of Wild Speculation and Spoilers...

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• Getting a slight murder-mystery / unstoppable-serial-killer movie vibe.
• Filoni has always been into his samurai stuff (and Lucas, of course, was ripping off Kurosawa, though pretty much everyone else as well). But the whole samurai / ninja aesthetic has definitely been amped up for this one, and it works.
• It's not just his show, though: the director and co-writer is Leslye (sic) Headland, co-creator of Russian Doll, and who cut her teeth working on the rather-good-and-therefore-obviously-cancelled-damn-you-Fox Terriers. Which, oddly enough, was also where Rian Johnson got his break.
• We probably know who the Acolyte is early on, but not the why or who's behind them. Always two, there are...
• I suspect our nifty kung fu assassin isn't the Sith, if only because (a) she's wielding a knife, (b) she isn't wearing long-sleeved robes, and (c) doesn't go full Force Unleashed as at the end of the trailer. Her character name is Mae, and she's yet another ex-Padawan gone rogue-ish.
  (Honestly, the Jedi should have some kind of vocational training scheme to keep this lot off the streets).
• Jodie Turner Smith plays Aniseya, the leader of a witch coven (not necessarily the Dathomir bunch). 
• And if you half-recognise our troubled Jedi master, that's Lee Jung-jae, aka Gi-Hun, the winner of Squid Game. Certainly beats the ratty tracksuit.
• The tagline: An investigation into a shocking crime spree pits a respected Jedi Master against a dangerous warrior from his past. As more clues emerge, they travel down a dark path where sinister forces reveal all is not what it seems…
• Much Matrix-fu going on, and nice to see our old friend Carrie-Anne getting some proper Trinity moves in. Looks like largely practical effects, which is always better.
• Also nice to sort-of see Joonas Suatomo back in a Wookie suit.

 

Edited March 19, 2024 by ThaOGDreamWeaver

[Techwright]

Respectfully, I'm not seeing where Dave Filoni has any part in this project.  I went over to the page on IMDB.com and Filoni's name appears in no credits, not even in a consulting role.  George Lucas is acknowledge (probably contractually has to be). This is is squarely Leslye Headland's project (and to some degree Kathleen Kennedy's).  I am not previously familiar with Headland's work, at least, I don't think I am, but mentioning Rian Johnson just put a foul taste in this S.W. fan's mouth.  However, I will remain open-minded and let the work speak for itself.

 

Three brief observation:

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The explosive energy given off at the end when a gang posse of Jedi rushed what I presume is one of the Sith, makes me wonder if this work will reinforce the concepts first expressed with the Legends stories of Darth Bane: that by reducing the population of Sith to two, a diluting effect on the Dark Side of the Force is removed, and the power of the Sith is greatly increased.

 

Hard to tell the technology differences with just this trailer.  A ship is wrecked, and it looks a bit like an A-wing, but the destruction happening to it makes it impossible to gauge a design difference.  S.W.'s universe has always been portrayed as something of a stagnant universe with few great technological advances for centuries, but with a story a few hundred years old, the tech should appear the difference between say, 1984 and today. 

 

There's more aliens than were in Andor, but like Andor, the focus seems to be on creating new aliens, not showcasing the vast number of them already in the Star Wars universe.  The one clear exception is Joonta's wookie Jedi master.  A possible exception is the young female jedi with orange makeup.  Her short horns suggest that this might be a Zabrak, Darth Maul's race.  I'm all for new aliens, but to not have very populous species, like the Twi'lek would be a mistake.

 

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

Filoni is now Chief Creative Officer at Lucasfilm. So credited or not, it's his mystic hat on the line.

 

About Headland: given I liked Russian Doll (I have high Natasha Lyonne tolerance), I'm hoping for some proper curveballs in the plot, but which should hold together.

[biostem]

My concern is this general trend to try and villainize the light side and humanize dark side users.  I mean, the dark side literally deteriorates your body and is driven by rage, hatred, and anger.  The Jedi order definitely isn't all lily-white, (especially with them basically abducting children), but they're still generally "good".  I'd rather see unaffiliated force users expanded upon and explored more.  With all the millions of planets and trillions of sentient beings in the Star Wars universe, let's see how other cultures fostered and utilized force users...

Edited March 20, 2024 by biostem

[Dynamo-Joe]

The absolute ROASTING in the comments section is hilarious and incredibly ON POINT! 
--------------------
"Close your eyes, What do you see?"

"I see todays sponsor: Raid Shadow Legends"
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"Close your eyes"
Alien: "I can't"
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Youngling: "I see fire"
Master: "Wrong universe"
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MASTER "Close your eyes, what do you see?"
YOUNGLING: "THE MESSAGE!!!!!"
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“Close your eyes. Your eyes can deceive you… tell me, what comes into your mind?”
“A perfect ESG score, Master”
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"Close your eyes, What do you see?"
" Harvey Weinstein"
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"What do you see?"
"Disney stocks going down and down and down"
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"Close your eyes, what do you see?"
"The Cult of Personality"
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Jedi Master: Close your eyes.
Youngling: ...I don't wanna, Hollywood has a bad track record with younglings...
(oof...)

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[Clave Dark 5]

"This doesn't make sense" ha ha! 

 

Anyways, cheap shots aside, yeah, tired of "the Jedi were all failures or corrupt or worse," plus the go-to for current pop culture "ooohh, these bad guys are really bad-ass, doesn't that make them interesting?"  No, that makes them bad, not bad-ass. 

 

Heroes are passe these days, which is exactly why we need more of them, not failures and corrupted people.

 

That aside, the samurai-leaning takes in The Mandalorean were it's best aspects, so that leaning here might work out.  Just please no more CGI rock-fights like Obi-Wan degenerated into.

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

Okay. So found an interview on Hollywood Reporter about this with Headland...

 

...yup, she's a Kurosawa fan, as well as wuxia movies, which is yer classy name for kung fu chopsocky flicks these days.

That should mightily please The Great Beards, and plays into what we're seeing in this trailer.

Not just that dress sense and some of the set aesthetics, but the confrontation with an unseen, super-powerful entity in a dense forest.

 

Using the Rashomon multi-viewpoint thing is... well, it's what every movie and theatre kid wants to do as soon as they get their grubby little paws on a proper camera and budget. Kurosawa's an undoubted master, but that movie has been stolen, homaged and parodied by everyone from Ridley Scott to The Simpsons, via CSI, ST: TNG and even The Odd Couple.

 

Done badly, it's slow, self-indulgent and overexplains. (Even by my standards).

Done well, it lets you explore every angle of a story - and sometimes also lets the characters do it too, as they interact and discover more of the whole picture.

 

That kind of plays into the point that m'learned coll' @biostem makes above. The Jedi we've seen and read about aren't all white hats, but some are True Believers, some are rulebound jobsworths, some try to do the best they can, and some... well, are probably just paying lip service to the whole thing.

 

And from their point of view, the Sith, Dathomiri and even Imp scum often consider themselves the good guys too, particularly the ones that:

• feel the Jedi are too up themselves / restricting access to power / becoming corrupt (Dooku)
• don't want to follow the strict Jedi moral / emotional regimes (Anakin)
• feel that the universe would do better if it was more ordered (also Anakin), no matter the cost, for greater-good an'all that...
  (and that, incidentally, they should be the ones running it. And have neat outfits with kinky boots and black hats. Maybe with some skulls on. Skulls are fun. BTW, I know it's a meme, but just for once sit down and watch the whole thing.)

 

Playing around with this in a SW context is one of the things that made Andor and its characters interesting. Particularly self-aware magnificent b***ard Luthen Rael - at least when put in the hands of a Proper Actor like Stellan Skarsgard. It's an obvious author's explainer speech, sure, but damn if it ain't good.

 

Thing that may please folks from that article: as it was filmed largely at Shinfield just outside London - a brand spanking new UK studio complex, no less, built for exactly this kind of streaming series, as well as locations in Portugal and Wales (gotta love a disused quarry), there's no Volume, very little green screen and mostly practical FX and wirework. So it should look good.

 

Edited March 20, 2024 by ThaOGDreamWeaver

[Techwright]

  On 3/20/2024 at 6:47 AM, Clave Dark 5 said:

... tired of "the Jedi were all failures or corrupt or worse," plus the go-to for current pop culture...

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So far, the stories are set in a time/times when the Jedi are deteriorating.  That sets up conflict and upheaval, and is why storytellers focus on those points of time. When the Jedi (or heroes in a larger sense) are at their purest and best, conflict would likely quickly resolve, and the story be rather dull after that point until the next cycle of growing lax resting on laurels, deterioration, conflict, purging, and renewal.

 

I do agree that if one is painting all Jedi of all ages with the broad brush of "failure", it is, well, too broad and quite myopic (though a very human thing to do).

 

  On 3/20/2024 at 6:47 AM, Clave Dark 5 said:

Heroes are passe these days, which is exactly why we need more of them, not failures and corrupted people.

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There's a chance you may get your wish.  There's a hypothesis among fans that the ending of Season 1 of Ahsoka sets the stage...

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...for a new direction in storytelling, moving a branch of the Jedi Order (namely Ahsoka and Sabine)  to an old galaxy elsewhere (new to us though) and that a renegade Jedi (Baylin Skoll) who seeks "origin" (which likely means pure balance in the force) might actually be walking into a trap, setting up a new dark order, regardless of whether it calls itself "Sith" or not.  If it goes this way, Ahsoka was recently "purified" resulting in a much lighter character (even her clothes now reflect a "...the White" look), and Sabine finally had a break-thru moment, which could result in a purer Jedi order going forward in galaxy #2.   It also allows Dave Filoni to set aside, rather than jettison, all the mistakes Disney damaged the franchise with, and start afresh without destroying the original galaxy in the process.

 

But yeah, it could herald a return of the heroic Jedi.

 

[Clave Dark 5]

  On 3/20/2024 at 2:39 PM, Techwright said:

 

So far, the stories are set in a time/times when the Jedi are deteriorating.  That sets up conflict and upheaval, and is why storytellers focus on those points of time. When the Jedi (or heroes in a larger sense) are at their purest and best, conflict would likely quickly resolve, and the story be rather dull after that point until the next cycle of growing lax resting on laurels, deterioration, conflict, purging, and renewal.

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Comic books alone published hundreds and hundreds if not thousands of heroic stories up until what the 1980s?  Superman alone wasn't focuses on the times he got lazy or deteriorating.  There were movie series, westerns, pulps, and you can even go back further to Homer Beowulf... heroes aren't dull.  Only writers are.  That's a failure of current imagination.

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

New trailer for May The Fourth...

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So... "I trained her, I should bring her in." That's a venerable old line.

 

But it sets up the plot - the old master chasing down the student, framed(?) for murder, while the actual culprit is someone or something else entirely. Given the Sith have barely been heard of for a while, running into a real live one would be a serious shock to the system. 

 

This trailer we get a look at our new foe and their natty helmet, though I wish they'd left it unseen: more witchcraft, neat two-part starships (that's the Lego toy for next year lined up...) and Carrie-Anne Moss being Trinity a bit.

 

So, hunting a serial killer of Jedi (or a Jedi serial killer?) with phenomenal powers? Yeah, that should work. Whatcha think?

 

[BrandX]

  On 3/20/2024 at 12:50 AM, biostem said:

My concern is this general trend to try and villainize the light side and humanize dark side users.  I mean, the dark side literally deteriorates your body and is driven by rage, hatred, and anger.  The Jedi order definitely isn't all lily-white, (especially with them basically abducting children), but they're still generally "good".  I'd rather see unaffiliated force users expanded upon and explored more.  With all the millions of planets and trillions of sentient beings in the Star Wars universe, let's see how other cultures fostered and utilized force users...

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That sounds like the first mistake.  Jedi didn't abduct children.  Parents gave the children and most considered it an honor.  Anakin stops a kidnapping of force sensitive children during Clone Wars.
They don't just go "Oh.  Force Sensitive.  We're taking the child.  Whether you like it or not."

I'd say the real issue may be, "We either take the child and they leave you or we don't help with the child's abilities"

 

 

[biostem]

  On 5/5/2024 at 12:55 AM, BrandX said:

That sounds like the first mistake.  Jedi didn't abduct children.  Parents gave the children and most considered it an honor.  Anakin stops a kidnapping of force sensitive children during Clone Wars.
They don't just go "Oh.  Force Sensitive.  We're taking the child.  Whether you like it or not."

I'd say the real issue may be, "We either take the child and they leave you or we don't help with the child's abilities"

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What needs expanding upon is a) what happens if parents decline/refuse to give up their child, and b) what happens, (or rather, what would the Jedi Order do), should a non-Jedi/non-Sith force user emerge somewhere and choose to operate independently.

[BrandX]

  On 5/5/2024 at 1:23 AM, biostem said:

What needs expanding upon is a) what happens if parents decline/refuse to give up their child, and b) what happens, (or rather, what would the Jedi Order do), should a non-Jedi/non-Sith force user emerge somewhere and choose to operate independently.

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I was looking it up and it's still "They ask" it's the Sith who steal kids.  People generally consider it an honor to have their kids go off with the Jedi, so it may not be to much of an issue?  But I'm sure there would be some who wouldn't.  

I would think they shrug it off and continue on, but I would wonder in the Republic steps in later.

[biostem]

  On 5/5/2024 at 2:39 AM, BrandX said:

I would think they shrug it off and continue on, but I would wonder in the Republic steps in later.

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That's the rub, isn't it;  Is there a "license" to be a force-user in the Republic?  If private people can own starships or even space stations, is it legal for a non-aligned force user to openly operate?

[Techwright]

  On 5/5/2024 at 1:23 AM, biostem said:

What needs expanding upon is a) what happens if parents decline/refuse to give up their child, and b) what happens, (or rather, what would the Jedi Order do), should a non-Jedi/non-Sith force user emerge somewhere and choose to operate independently.

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We've had a taste of that already (what might happen without training), as discussed in the Mandalorian (cue Spoiler Alert):

 

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Ahsoka was asked to train Grogu and she refused fearing his attachment to Dinn would create another Darth Vader.  Her comment was something along the lines of "better to leave him untrained and let the ability wither".  So there's at least a perception among those trained as Jedi that an unpracticed force usage will wither and die.  While I don't like citing the series "Obi-Wan Kenobi" it is canon now, and within it, Kenobi, one of the greatest masters of his age found it a struggle to use the force after denying himself for around a decade.  So the idea is that unused/untrained force abilities are lost, and even trained but unused force abilities are at least severely diminished over time.

 

Of course, we also have the Sequel Trilogy, which makes the Kenobi series look like high art, but it's currently canon, and there we have an untrained kid (12-year-old?) force-pulling a broom to him, so...it would seem he's not withering at all.  But I chalk this discrepancy up to Disney not holding a hard line on canon definitions.

 

[BrandX]

  On 5/5/2024 at 4:29 AM, Techwright said:

We've had a taste of that already (what might happen without training), as discussed in the Mandalorian (cue Spoiler Alert):

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Ahsoka was asked to train Grogu and she refused fearing his attachment to Dinn would create another Darth Vader.  Her comment was something along the lines of "better to leave him untrained and let the ability wither".  So there's at least a perception among those trained as Jedi that an unpracticed force usage will wither and die.  While I don't like citing the series "Obi-Wan Kenobi" it is canon now, and within it, Kenobi, one of the greatest masters of his age found it a struggle to use the force after denying himself for around a decade.  So the idea is that unused/untrained force abilities are lost, and even trained but unused force abilities are at least severely diminished over time.

 

Of course, we also have the Sequel Trilogy, which makes the Kenobi series look like high art, but it's currently canon, and there we have an untrained kid (12-year-old?) force-pulling a broom to him, so...it would seem he's not withering at all.  But I chalk this discrepancy up to Disney not holding a hard line on canon definitions.

 

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My guess would be, an untrained may not know how to fully access their abilities the way a trained force user would, at least 99% of the time (after all someone had to start).  Keep the simple parlor tricks, without maybe focusing on the really heavy stuff?

We know the story is always a bit off.  Size matters not...then it matters 😛

Think for Kenobi is was all about "Want to weaken him for the sake of story" 😛 

 

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

Thought…

…whether or not the Jedi abducted kids or asked, the kids might not always see it that way. Especially if they got taken from a happy secure family to a lifetime of discipline, asceticism and service.

[BrandX]

  On 5/5/2024 at 4:25 PM, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

Thought…

…whether or not the Jedi abducted kids or asked, the kids might not always see it that way. Especially if they got taken from a happy secure family to a lifetime of discipline, asceticism and service.

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That would still be the Jedi not abducting and they can freely leave the Jedi Order as adults.

[Voltor]

  On 5/5/2024 at 12:55 AM, BrandX said:

 

That sounds like the first mistake.  Jedi didn't abduct children.  Parents gave the children and most considered it an honor.  Anakin stops a kidnapping of force sensitive children during Clone Wars.
They don't just go "Oh.  Force Sensitive.  We're taking the child.  Whether you like it or not."

I'd say the real issue may be, "We either take the child and they leave you or we don't help with the child's abilities"

 

 

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Acolyte and Skeleton Crew are kathleen Kennedy productions, will be one season only for each and will follow her agenda of trashing Star Wars.   Filoni and Favreaux have nothing to do with these projects

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

So the first two episodes have dropped...

SPOILERS AHEAD!

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• ...and, so far, I'm liking it. Serial murder by proxy story. Interesting.
• Right from the cold open: if you're going to show you're a badass, start by taking out the biggest b***h in the room. And killing not just any Jedi warrior, but OMG that's goddamn Trinity with a lightsabre, is going to set up your character pretty nicely.
• EVIL TWIN! EVIL TWIN! EVIL TWIN! Yeah, it's a classic. The mystery about who The Acolyte is gets canned in the first twenty minutes. No bad thing.
• I would love a PIP droid - he's basically a sarcastic penknife. 
• I also like that a girl named OSHA is literally working as a walking Health And Safety violation.
• So the mystery is the Master, now... I have a bet that it's someone we've met in the first two episodes. Not saying who, but you can probably guess. I'm probably wrong.
• Except it's not Yord. He's an a**hole. A young, brash, self-important, tall, built, firrrmmm... ahem. But still an a**hole. Yay fanservice. I get the feeling he has Much To Learn. And could be tempted to the dark side. Or is that just some of the slashfic I may be Googling later on?
• It's also not the surprisingly only-mildly-annoying kid, who is (a) too short and (b) has a dose of cunning. Not a natural Jedi trait, that.
• Of the four Jedi targets, clearly two have memories of what went on with Mae and Osha. Andara, not sure about, but the the other two are carrying the weight of guilt. One went into deep meditation, the other went back to the forest.
• Whereas Sol absolutely believes that he saved one kid, and wanted to save the other. What doesn't he know - or remember? Was that mention about Jedi memory wiping a Chekhov's Gu... er, Handwavy Thing? And can Jedi do it to other Jedi?
• I suspect this is where the mooted Rashomon thing comes out: our hero and both sisters all remember what happened a little bit differently. (I've been reading about False memory and the Mandela/Challenger Syndrome lately, so it's entirely possible for someone to invent an entire narrative and fundamentally believe it, and support contrary to all evidence.)
• Strengths:
  • Very excellent chopsocky going on, and full credit to cast and crew for doing it with all practical effects and training. No CGI. None.
  • Pulling the Mission Impossible gag of wiping out an A-List star and sci-fi icon in the first ten minutes just to make a point. Respect.
  • Some quite intriguing plotting. There's a lot of places this could go, and I don't think all of them have been given away yet by the blasted PR department.
  • Lee-Jung Jae acting pretty much everyone else off the screen, plus excellent sliming from Manny Jacinto.
  • The distinct feeling that this is going to turn into a Star Wars serial killer movie, with Mae and/or Osha as the Final Girl.
  • Looks the absolute business. A distinctly different era of Star Wars, but recognisably joined to it.
• Weaknesses:
  • Jae learned English just for this gig, and damn do I feel sorry for him, because he's not the only one stumbling over this dialogue. In the interviews, Headland spoke of her love for the prequels, and oh dear sweet goddess has she copied the style and phrasing, like everyone's chewing a thesaurus. Clunk. Clunk. Clunk. Hopefully it picks up the further we stay from Coruscant.
  • A lot's been said about Amanda's dual role. TBH I'm not seeing the differentiation much beyond stance and poise. Maybe that's intentional.
  • Unless we're in for some big plot twists, Yord, Tasi and Jecki seem like redshirt material. (Probably Tasi first, unless Headland goes for an early suckerpunch and kills the kid). I'd like to have a reason to care about them before they get dispatched, rather than just being plot-bodycount-in-waiting.

So... not perfect, but by no means the disaster that's been spoken of in the review bombing (which, TBH, is getting pretty tiresome now). It's a solid watch - it may not grab as instantly as Mando, but it hasn't had as many of its early stumbles either, and I think it could go somewhere really interesting. Kinda hoping it does.

 

Edited June 6, 2024 by ThaOGDreamWeaver

[Mr. Vee]

I've not seen any reviews cuz idgaf and i'm going to watch anyway, but I was kind of shocked at how terrible it was. I wondered if they'd outsourced it to 1990s syfy channel and used surplus props from original BSG and Black Hole. Fights were fine at least.

[Haijinx]

I'm just waiting for Lucas to claim all this stuff is non cannon on a whim, just like he did with the expanded universe.

[PeregrineFalcon]

I think Critical Drinker sums it up correctly, again.

 

 

[Ghost]

  On 6/6/2024 at 10:42 PM, Mr. Vee said:

I've not seen any reviews cuz idgaf and i'm going to watch anyway, but I was kind of shocked at how terrible it was. I wondered if they'd outsourced it to 1990s syfy channel and used surplus props from original BSG and Black Hole. Fights were fine at least.

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Supposedly the first 2 episodes look Oscar worthy compared to how episode 3 will look.

I guess 180mill doesn’t buy you much anymore.