Thunderbolts* (MCU)

[Ulysses Dare]

Just watched this last night and found it quite fun. Not the best MCU movie, sure, but miles ahead of Brave New World,

[BrandX]

As I rewatch Thunderbolts, I have to say, I'm not sure I'd have considered the guy John killed, innocent. 😛

[Ulysses Dare]

On 8/2/2025 at 7:47 AM, BrandX said:

As I rewatch Thunderbolts, I have to say, I'm not sure I'd have considered the guy John killed, innocent. 😛

Something that's always bugged me about the MCU version of John Walker is how the script keeps trying to bend reality to make me believe this guy is an asshole. I was reading Captain America back when Super Patriot, a.k.a. John Walker, was introduced. That guy was a 24-carat asshole. The MCU version is a combat vet who got tossed into water over his head and then the people who did it to him pulled up the ladder. 

[BrandX]

39 minutes ago, Ulysses Dare said:

Something that's always bugged me about the MCU version of John Walker is how the script keeps trying to bend reality to make me believe this guy is an asshole. I was reading Captain America back when Super Patriot, a.k.a. John Walker, was introduced. That guy was a 24-carat asshole. The MCU version is a combat vet who got tossed into water over his head and then the people who did it to him pulled up the ladder. 

 

I agree.  He didn't come off as much of an asshole in the series and I thought it was messed up what they had the government do to him.  Not saying they shouldn't have taken away the shield/title, but it's not like Steve didn't go about killing Nazi's, and John just killed a terrorist, who may not have been the one to kill his friend directly, but he was there as the group and things got heated.

 

Also, in Thunderbolts, he came off as right more than once.  Elevator shaft scene, while the others didn't like it, he was not only correct but saved them all (okay, Bob would've been fine :p) and when he told Yelena there was to many variables and then she acts like he shouldn't have moved when her plan fell apart and he was screwed 😛

 

Though, I do believe she gave him a compliment later about being a good soldier.

 

Of course, on the digs, they were all going to do that regardless.

[ShardWarrior]

I watched Thunderbolts and CA: BNW on the plane while on vacation.  Thunderbolts was middling/okay at best in my opinion.  If I am being honest, I just did not get invested in the characters at all.  Most, if not all of them, are substandard copies of the originals done far better.  Yelena's incessant whining grated my nerves to the point I nearly shut it off more than once.  I honestly do not know why they even bothered to have Taskmaster make a cameo.  Seemed pointless to include her.  This was one of those MCU films you needed to "do your homework on" to understand who these characters are, which I do not think helped it.

 

The movie did have some nice action sequences and I do think it better than some other MCU offerings, but overall I did not care for it.  John Walker/US Agent and Bucky were the only characters I did like.  If these are indeed the new Avengers, it does not bode well for the MCU.

 

I found Godzilla Minus One a much better and far better written film.  Much more entertaining to watch.

[Ghost]

10 hours ago, ShardWarrior said:

 

 

I found Godzilla Minus One a much better and far better written film.  Much more entertaining to watch.

In all fairness, Minus One is a great movie.  
I don’t really think you can compare anything MCU related to it.
 

[ShardWarrior]

9 hours ago, Ghost said:

In all fairness, Minus One is a great movie.  

 

Yes, I thought so.  I had a 13 hour flight so I had plenty of time for movie watching.  I bring up Godzilla Minus One as it was one of the films I watched during my flight.  I always enjoyed the Godzilla films as a kid, whether they were silly/campy or not.  I liked the first two films in the recent Legendary Monsterverse.  I have to say,  I was very surprised at how well Minus One was written.  I very much enjoyed Shikashima's story arc.  This film is even more impressive once you realize that Disney spent about twice as much on a single episode of something like She-Hulk than was spent on Minus One - and the film won an Oscar for VFX.  Definitely worth a watch if you have not seen it.

 

9 hours ago, Ghost said:

I don’t really think you can compare anything MCU related to it.

 

Sure you can.  From the standpoint that a good film with a well written story and compelling characters you can get invested in is indeed a good film with a well written story and compelling characters you can invest in.  It does not matter if that film is an MCU movie or not.  

[BrandX]

On 8/29/2025 at 3:49 AM, ShardWarrior said:

I watched Thunderbolts and CA: BNW on the plane while on vacation.  Thunderbolts was middling/okay at best in my opinion.  If I am being honest, I just did not get invested in the characters at all.  Most, if not all of them, are substandard copies of the originals done far better.  Yelena's incessant whining grated my nerves to the point I nearly shut it off more than once.  I honestly do not know why they even bothered to have Taskmaster make a cameo.  Seemed pointless to include her.  This was one of those MCU films you needed to "do your homework on" to understand who these characters are, which I do not think helped it.

 

The movie did have some nice action sequences and I do think it better than some other MCU offerings, but overall I did not care for it.  John Walker/US Agent and Bucky were the only characters I did like.  If these are indeed the new Avengers, it does not bode well for the MCU.

 

I found Godzilla Minus One a much better and far better written film.  Much more entertaining to watch.

 

You have Taskmaster there the same reason Suicide Squad had Slipknot.  Gotta kill someone off to feel the pressure!  Also, no one liked her. 😛

[ShardWarrior]

2 hours ago, BrandX said:

Gotta kill someone off to feel the pressure!  Also, no one liked her.

 

Her not being all that important or likeable is exactly the point.  It was not the "shock/gut punch" that I believe it was intended to be.  It did not have any meaningful dramatic impact because you did not care about the character.

[TTRPGWhiz]

Watched this over the weekend. Favorite MCU movie since 2019.

[Coin]

On 7/16/2025 at 4:36 PM, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

I can’t currently get Resident Alien in the UK but he’s had a whole BUNCH of fun things to do in that.

 

Bit late to this conversation so you probably already know, but the whole lot is on Sky now, if you have it?

 

And it's always glorious wacky fun 🙂

[TTRPGWhiz]

On 8/30/2025 at 11:38 AM, ShardWarrior said:

 

Her not being all that important or likeable is exactly the point.  It was not the "shock/gut punch" that I believe it was intended to be.  It did not have any meaningful dramatic impact because you did not care about the character.

It didn’t strike me as intended to be a gut punch, it struck me as a tone setter. There aren’t many MCU movies/shows where someone dies that isn’t in service to some other character’s arc or the plot. She was collateral damage. I was kinda surprised that USAgent and Ghost made it all the way through. 

Edited September 3 by TTRPGWhiz

[ShardWarrior]

1 hour ago, TTRPGWhiz said:

It didn’t strike me as intended to be a gut punch, it struck me as a tone setter. There aren’t many MCU movies/shows where someone dies that isn’t in service to some other character’s arc or the plot. She was collateral damage. I was kinda surprised that USAgent and Ghost made it all the way through. 

 

That may be the case, however I still do not think it was all that impactful.  Ghost I would not have cared if she did not make it through to the end.  John Walker I would have been sorry about.  The rest, meh.    

[TTRPGWhiz]

1 hour ago, ShardWarrior said:

 

That may be the case, however I still do not think it was all that impactful.  Ghost I would not have cared if she did not make it through to the end.  John Walker I would have been sorry about.  The rest, meh.    

Yeah my sense was that it was meant less as “this person’s death is meant to have an emotional impact” and more “we are setting the expectation that these characters are expendable”. I’m not current on which actors are signed to what contracts, so the only character death that would have been really surprising to me was Bucky.

[Ghost]

5 hours ago, TTRPGWhiz said:

Yeah my sense was that it was meant less as “this person’s death is meant to have an emotional impact” and more “we are setting the expectation that these characters are expendable”. I’m not current on which actors are signed to what contracts, so the only character death that would have been really surprising to me was Bucky.

Bucky dying wouldn’t have surprised me.  Especially since he started the movie basically retired.

The only death that would have caught me completely off guard, would have been Yelenas.

 

[ShardWarrior]

On 9/3/2025 at 10:43 AM, TTRPGWhiz said:

Yeah my sense was that it was meant less as “this person’s death is meant to have an emotional impact” and more “we are setting the expectation that these characters are expendable”. I’m not current on which actors are signed to what contracts, so the only character death that would have been really surprising to me was Bucky.

 

We can agree to disagree.  If the characters are that expendable that we are not supposed to care about whether they live or die, they are not at all important to the story and thereby not worth getting emotionally invested in.  

[WanderingAries]

It was...streamable. Not sure if it was less than Suicide Squad or not, but still on my "not sure I'll actually buy this one" list.

[InvaderStych]

Enjoyable enough. Doesn't stand out, and probably not a re-watch, but solid, if average, Marvel fare.

 

For better or worse they stuck to the formula that seems to have the broadest appeal: meet characters, characters fight each other, intro something that gets them to work together, they suck at it for a while, then they are good at it, then they win the big, fancy, expensive set piece, then some snooty foreshadowing either in the denouement and/or the various credit scenes.

 

Credit for trying to dig a little deeper with Yelena's arc. Last time I saw Harbour as Red Guardian I found him mildly annoying, but he and FP do a solid job in their more thoughtful scenes. His baffoonishness was less irritating this time around as well.

 

I guess I'm still confused as to where Elaine (edit: Valentina WhateverWhateverDeLaSoulShinnanigans, or whatever her name is) came from. I've seen everything preceding this one, and I do vaguely remember her introduction at some point (but I forget which series/movie that was in). Even then I kept wondering who she was and why she was suddenly just running shit. Perils of not being terribly familiar with the comics, I guess. Edit: maybe I missed the explanation the first time around? Was there one? It felt to me like she appeared out of nowhere in whichever show/film she first showed up in.

Edited September 6 by InvaderStych

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

10 hours ago, InvaderStych said:

Elaine (edit: Valentina WhateverWhateverDeLaSoulShinnanigans, or whatever her name is)

 

Contessa Elaintina Veritaespettacolare di Fontaine is introduced at the end of F&TWS, recruiting John Walker as USAgent: then picks up Yelena in the post-cred of Black Widow. She’s introduced as the CIA’s new Director in Wakanda Forever - and also Everett Ross’s ex. 

Edited September 6 by ThaOGDreamWeaver

[InvaderStych]

3 hours ago, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

Contessa Elaintina Veritaespettacolare di Fontaine is introduced at the end of F&TWS, recruiting John Walker as USAgent: then picks up Yelena in the post-cred of Black Widow.

 

Ah, yes, that all rings the proverbial bell. If she told Walker who she was at that point I was probably phased out. 🤣

 

I may also be failing to account for an intentional attempt at an "Oooh, who is this mysterious person?" effect. 🤷‍♂️

Edited September 6 by InvaderStych

[TTRPGWhiz]

Contessa's been around in the comics since the Jim Steranko Nick Fury, Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D. days (late 60s), but she hasn't been a major player in about as long. In the comics, the Thunderbolts were brought together by Baron Zemo. Wouldn't that have been interesting.

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

15 hours ago, TTRPGWhiz said:

Wouldn't that have been interesting.

The OG Thunderbolts comic is my favourite arc, bar none, and while I like this movie, it has almost zero to do with that series.

The movie is a team-up movie like any other. The only thread that comes from the OG comic is the idea that Very Bad People can do good things - and not necessarily because they want to be better. Some like the glory. Some want to fit in. Some have dark hidden motives an' all that.

 

I would quite like it if Marvel Animation did an "Original Thunderbolts" movie/series with Zemo's crew. 

[TTRPGWhiz]

10 hours ago, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

The OG Thunderbolts comic is my favourite arc, bar none, and while I like this movie, it has almost zero to do with that series.

The movie is a team-up movie like any other. The only thread that comes from the OG comic is the idea that Very Bad People can do good things - and not necessarily because they want to be better. Some like the glory. Some want to fit in. Some have dark hidden motives an' all that.

 

I would quite like it if Marvel Animation did an "Original Thunderbolts" movie/series with Zemo's crew. 

I read the whole “Thunderbolts*/New Avengers” thing as a cheeky way to combine those two teams/arcs. On the Thunderbolts side, you’ve got a couple sketchy characters and some reformed villains, on the New (or Dark) Avengers side you’ve got The Sentry/Void as the actual Big Bad. Contessa reads like a stand-in for both Zemo and Norman Osborn.

Edited September 9 by TTRPGWhiz