Give Medicine Pool Power some love

[TheZag]

I used to take the medicine pool on almost every character that didnt have some form of self healing.  As i got to know the game better and improved my gameplay/enhancement selection,  i stopped taking the medicine pool altogether.  Now i consider the medicine pool to be mostly pointless since i use defense and resistance to keep myself healthy and if you wanted a healer then invite a character with it in their primary or secondary.  If medicine were buffed it would still be 'bad' because as a pool power it would never be better than a defender,  corruptor,  or controller's healing.

 

[Duckbutler]

One of the issues many of my characters who would want Medicine run into is the fact that you're limited to 4 pool power sets. Medicine is most attractive (to me) on a mastermind or bubbler that does not have a heal, ie sets like sonic and force field. Those same characters are generally also considering leadership, fighting, leaping/flight, and hasten. This is a very minor and solvable problem, but it does create some opportunity cost.

 

I was honestly confused at one point and thought Field Medic was an auto power, not a click. I haven't even considered the Medicine pool since I learned it was a click.

[Yomo Kimyata]

The kindest way I can respond to any of these "buff the power sets I don't use until they are better than the ones I use!!!1!" is a gentle pat on the back as I murmur "there, there, it'll be ok."

 

I think @Glacier Peak did a fine job of talking up the set as it is.  I have it on very few of my alts, but those that have it use it very well and use it exactly as they described.

 

Maybe, maybe there is a learning curve that some people may not be aware of?  I know that's blasphemy but I can't understand otherwise.

 

 

[Chris24601]

These days I find Aid Other to be invaluable for all the higher level missions that insisted on adding suicidally aggressive allies (some of whom had to be kept alive to avoid mission failure).

 

Not having to sit around for several minutes waiting for them to regenerate so they don’t die running into the next spawn is an absolute sanity saver.

 

My only request is alternate animations because pulling out a green tricorder really doesn’t fit some concepts. I’d like a wand animation and a generic “two-handed gesture towards target/popping on a defensive toggle” for aid other/self.

[kelika2]

I wish I could care about Medicine but even if it did get buffed I do not think of any character that would still take it.

Melee builds are tight and if you are in an emergency situation where you can make use of a rechargeable Green Insp it wont have the cooldown to keep you alive.  Since healing IO sets are not great for defense thats another thing.

aid other has a 4 second activation time, aid self has a 5 second activation time.  thats a long ass time to stand there and animate/watch that little blue circle spin around an icon.

 

and there is a point in this game where incoming damage is huge and healing becomes an ineffective way to keep others and yourself alive.

 

aright, nows the time to whip out your anecdote about that one time you used Rebirth

[shortguy on indom]

If I explain any more about this power pool Bop will nerf it.

3 must haves:

Injection - stacking mez protection teammates or up to (-)57% ToHitDebuff enemies, -12.5% Rech., -18% Dam. . +procability.

Field Medic - long recharge, but the +25% HealDebuff Resistence is worth it for me.

Aid Self - +48% Stun Resistance... (and 5% End Ticks if you run Field Medic). Only take if taking Field Medic.

 

Pass:
Aid Other
Resuscitate
 

[Maelwys]

I've taken Aid Other on several support toons over the years (e.g. FF, Cold, Sonic and Traps) as an extra layer of damage migitation; and usually in those cases I'll also pick up Aid Self.
And occasionally on Melee Defence sets that lack a Heal (Shield Defence, Super Reflexes, etc) I'll try to fit a copy of Aid Self in.

I'm perfectly fine with the current Heal% values and recharge time... but I really hate the interrupt. It makes it far more difficult for a resistance-focused character to activate these healing abilities than a defence-focused character; and even at the defence cap if I happen to be affected by a DoT or even a debuffing Pseudopet like Earthquake then that effectively locks me out (by way of chain-interrupt) of activating these heals until the effect expires.

Field Medic removing the interrupt from Aid Other can partially deal with this issue - but that means taking a minimum of two additional Medicine Pool power picks over and above the one I'm actually using (not always possible!) and it does nothing for the interrupt on Aid Self.

So personally I'd much prefer it if the interrupt was removed altogether, or failing that if taking Aid Self removed the Interrupt on Aid Other and vice-versa... and if that came about then Field Medic could potentially be altered to grant things like additional raw Healing %, +Absorb, +Recovery and/or a Heal over Time without running afoul of the Cottage Rule.
If this means that a balance pass is needed; then by all means lengthen the Recharge and/or raise the Endurance cost (3-4x that of the main powerset equivalents seems to be generally touted as a good rule of thumb) as long as I end up with heals that can reliably trigger whenever I need them to trigger.

Is it really so much to ask that the "Medicine" pool provide better and more reliable healing than Sorcery Pool Spirit Ward with a Panacea proc in it? 🤔

[tidge]

2 hours ago, Maelwys said:

Is it really so much to ask that the "Medicine" pool provide better and more reliable healing than Sorcery Pool Spirit Ward with a Panacea proc in it? 🤔

 

^ This is my primary balance issue (with the Medicine pool, not the Sorcery pool)... even without considering the %proc, as a practical matter the %absorb is better than a heal (interruptable or not).

[TheMoneyMaker]

On 4/23/2024 at 7:28 AM, Saiyajinzoningen said:

to be honest id be satisfied with some alternate animations

At the very least Injection should have an option for the syringe animation in the experimentation pool

[MsSmart]

On 4/22/2024 at 5:58 PM, Rudra said:

That's the thing though, support ATs are all about support. It is their identity. Players dipping into the Medicine pool aren't support characters. The Medicine pool isn't supposed to make your character a support character, it just gives you the ability to throw some supplemental heals. (And I just checked Aid Self during combat in the game. I'm not seeing any interrupt time. So the OP isn't correct.)

 

Hate to tell you, but support types use this, because they can't heal themselves, at least not all the support types, and yes some melee like scrappers needs because their secondary are not strong enough and need the self heal to supplement their defenses. Think of shied for example, you do take damage and wear out, the self heal is glorious for this secondary

 

[Rudra]

4 minutes ago, MsSmart said:

On 4/22/2024 at 4:58 PM, Rudra said:

That's the thing though, support ATs are all about support. It is their identity. Players dipping into the Medicine pool aren't support characters. The Medicine pool isn't supposed to make your character a support character, it just gives you the ability to throw some supplemental heals. (And I just checked Aid Self during combat in the game. I'm not seeing any interrupt time. So the OP isn't correct.)

 

Hate to tell you, but support types use this, because they can't heal themselves, at least not all the support types, and yes some melee like scrappers needs because their secondary are not strong enough and need the self heal to supplement their defenses. Think of shied for example, you do take damage and wear out, the self heal is glorious for this secondary

 

That doesn't change my post. Any character in any AT can take the Medicine pool. That does not make the Medicine pool the Insta-Support Character pool. It is supposed to give your character supplemental heals, just like I said. And like you said, support ATs can take it to supplement their heals. That's what pool powers are, supplementary powers available to all ATs. Not the Make This Character A Support AT or anything else set.

[Akisan]

Medicine's a key part of my build, so while I'd love a free buff, it doesn't really need it.  There are definitely some annoyances though:

• They all use tech animations.  As a spellcaster, it's rather OOC.
• Both Aid Other and the Day Job heal can be used to save a teammate in the red... except the Day Job version has a shorter cast time, and isn't interruptible.  (The Day Job one has a longer cooldown, and limited charges though...)
• Those tech animations...
• The animation on Recuscitate is LONG.  And not very visible.  I can't even begin to tell you how many people I've had use a wakie while I'm rezzing them.  Even if they know I have a rez.  Some of them even after I say I'm rezzing them.  I'd love a flashier animation for this, so people know I'm trying to rez them, instead of just standing there.
• Again, those tech animations...

 

And on the not needing a buff side:

• Injection is pretty underrated, IMO.  Yeah, it has a long cast time, but that's almost always better than leaving a teammate CC'd.  I've bailed teams out of so many rough spots by simply freeing our control/supports from mezzes.  (plus, standing around mezzed is no fun.  Getting fellow players back in the game is very worth it).  It's also worth mentioning that it clears all CCs - not all Support sets do that.  It doesn't last long enough to keep the entire team covered, but then, it isn't Clear Mind.  (Oh- and don't forget to use it on teammates that use a wakie! It lets them immediately use Rest, so they're back in the fight that much sooner)
• As stated above, Aid Other's great for both saving teammates (as long as you don't have aggro), and topping off teammates and mission critical NPCs outside of combat.
• The rez is a full heal.  Nearly all temp rezzes are only half- or quarter- heals, meaning you can rez someone mid-fight without them immediately being taken out again (again, assuming you don't have aggro).  Still great out of combat though, to get the team back in shape. Also, not all support sets have a rez.  This helps round out a team (dying's annoying, but not nearly as much as the run back from the hospital)  Oh - and it's an actual power, so it's not taken from you by challenge/difficulty settings (of course, using it may mean said challenge has already failed, but that's a different story...)

[Eiko-chan]

While the only character I currently use the Medicine pool on is tech-based, I would very much also like to see alternate animations for Medicine that don't involve gadgets.

[Shin Magmus]

     Anecdotally: none of my characters have the Medicine pool, and none of them ever will (in its current state).  If you want to Support better, not only are you looking at the limitations of only having access to 4 Pools tops, but also the competition for Medicine.  Evaluation the other pools puts all of them ahead of Medicine, but let's examine why...

 

     For anyone: be they Support AT or meathead melee, the absolute best power you can take to help keep the team alive is Maneuvers.  Hilariously, Maneuvers also affects yourself in just one pick (Aid Other / Aid Self require 2 picks).  This locks you into Leadership, which contains other very useful buffs for offensive purposes, and utility such as: perception / protection from confuse / Vengeance for when a situation gets dicey / 2x LotG mules for your IO build.  After that, there's another strong pick to keep one person alive very well with Spirit Ward in Sorcery (a good pool with other stuff to offer besides), and a more niche but not bad pick with Experimental Injection in Experimentation (this power grants an ally buffs not unlike having doubleHealth + doubleStamina, but it also grants mez protection).  Taking Leadership + Sorcery is already 2/4 pools, and assuming that you have Hasten that's 3/4.  Your last pool will usually be reserved for some degree of proper combat mobility: meaning Combat Jumping -or- Hover + Evasive Maneuvers -or- Combat Teleport.  Skilled players do not move at turtle-speed, so they will have one of their pools be specifically unsuppressed combat mobility.  That's it: there's simply not room to even consider Medicine until it becomes better than those other options.

 

     I'd take any buffs suggested or any buffs at all to Medicine as a pool.  It's in a dire spot when the S.T.A.R.T vendor powers are so strong.  While I mentioned none of my characters have Medicine, they ironically all have an Ally Rez anyways because I bought the temp power from S.T.A.R.T.  I saw the point that this power is disabled on certain content... but if you're doing that, Medicine's Rez definitely isn't going to be very useful either.

[Videra]

26 minutes ago, Shin Magmus said:

I'd take any buffs suggested or any buffs at all to Medicine as a pool.  It's in a dire spot when the S.T.A.R.T vendor powers are so strong.  While I mentioned none of my characters have Medicine, they ironically all have an Ally Rez anyways because I bought the temp power from S.T.A.R.T.  I saw the point that this power is disabled on certain content... but if you're doing that, Medicine's Rez definitely isn't going to be very useful either.

 

I'd like to add, as a worthy note, that Immortal Recovery inspirations are incredibly cheap as well. They are also, incidentally, usable in HM content - nullifying the point of most rez powers to begin with.

[tidge]

16 hours ago, Videra said:

 

I'd like to add, as a worthy note, that Immortal Recovery inspirations are incredibly cheap as well. They are also, incidentally, usable in HM content - nullifying the point of most rez powers to begin with.

 

I get the sense that Inspirations are ignored (purposefully, or accidentally) when considering certain aspects of "game balance". I can almost put myself in a headspace to see why this might be purposeful, but then I look at how some of the (armor) T9s work... and realize how many Inspiration slots a character will have by the time they can even pick a T9 (especially in the pre-page 5 days) and I shake my head.

 

Yes, inspirations are (nominally, because email) limited "charges", but their use is only limited by whatever power being activated or control (soft or hard or animation) is applied to the character... but otherwise any power with an effect that can be duplicated by an inspiration is subject to reconsideration.

[MsSmart]

On 4/23/2024 at 11:43 AM, tidge said:

 

Imagine if the final power in the Flight pool was a toggle that made you fly faster.. oh wait...

 

Excuse, back to the Medicine pool. TL;DR: I think it is fine. Re-read the post by @Glacier Peak above.

 

I don't see the role of the Medicine pool to be to turn characters without healing powers into healers, I see the pool as a way to give a limited number of healing/support powers to characters that want them... plus (as mentioned in the referenced post) a pretty good %damage melee attack option.

 

I'm not categorically opposed to making some updates to the Medicine pool, for reasons:

 

#1 The Medicine pool occupies a peculiar, particular part of design space from my PoV... there isn't often much need for healing (+status) that can't be addressed by the use of Inspirations... or just running away and allowing Regeneration to do its thing. Since Inspirations are essentially just 'click powers', I don't know why a character who invests an actual power pick needs to have those early powers be interruptible.

 

#2 In a lot of team play (in my experience), preemptively applying the Absorb from Spirit Ward (Sorcery pool) to someone on the team who is likely to be taking damage is probably superior to retroactively applying Aid Other to someone that has taken damage. This doesn't sit right with me.

I agree with you, I do not consider pool powers to have to be inferior to regular line powers, but instead are powers to help round your character, something that lets you in your mind and play style feel your build is whole. So no, power pools do not make tank blasters, or melee to be healers, but it would give a tank a range attack, and a scrapper a means to self heal, just like fighting gives many support some semblance of a chance for defense and resistance; and thus the objective of a pool power. There is no logical reason for the power pool abilities to be superior or inferior to regular powers in nature. Frankly, I would just assume and be happy if the heal pool had no interrupt handicaps...

 

Sue