Why do I get attacked by an enemy that I one-shot from stealth?

[MrPengy]

As an example, I was just soloing a mission on my Stalker. Up against an Lt. who was on his own. I'm hidden, Assassin's Strike one-shots him. But he managed to fire off a mace blast. Similarly, on my Arachnos Soldier, I'm hidden. I could stand near the enemy for 3 hours and not be seen. Yet every time I attack from Stealth the enemy sees me and retaliates before the attack lands.

 

I don't remember it being like this on Live. I loved having a sneaky Soldier who would come up behind people and bash them across the head. But when they respond before I've even hit them, it's like Ehhh, why bother to be sneaky? Like did I miss a change? Am I doing this wrong? Was it always this way and my rosy shades are making be think it was better in the Before Times?

[Snarky]

Yeah, this is not how i thought it worked.  But I generally run Blasters so I snipe. I ran a Stalker for about two-three weeks a year ago.  I had great luck killing a Lt from stealth then killing the minions in combat. Very consistent.  Then I realized how much more damage a Blaster can do in less time and switched.  Kill alls are a bitch after all. 

[RelativeQuanta]

24 minutes ago, MrPengy said:

As an example, I was just soloing a mission on my Stalker. Up against an Lt. who was on his own. I'm hidden, Assassin's Strike one-shots him. But he managed to fire off a mace blast. Similarly, on my Arachnos Soldier, I'm hidden. I could stand near the enemy for 3 hours and not be seen. Yet every time I attack from Stealth the enemy sees me and retaliates before the attack lands.

 

I don't remember it being like this on Live. I loved having a sneaky Soldier who would come up behind people and bash them across the head. But when they respond before I've even hit them, it's like Ehhh, why bother to be sneaky? Like did I miss a change? Am I doing this wrong? Was it always this way and my rosy shades are making be think it was better in the Before Times?

I remember this always being a thing on Live too.  I think that what is happening is once the interruptible period of AS ends the power rolls the to-hit calculation. This notifies the enemy who can start their own attack before the damage is applied from AS.  As long as their attack starts before they're dead, they'll get to complete it.  This happens with normal attacks too.

[ZemX]

36 minutes ago, RelativeQuanta said:

I remember this always being a thing on Live too.  I think that what is happening is once the interruptible period of AS ends the power rolls the to-hit calculation. This notifies the enemy who can start their own attack before the damage is applied from AS.  As long as their attack starts before they're dead, they'll get to complete it.  This happens with normal attacks too.

 

If this is how it works, then worth noting not all AS are equal in terms of the animation time after the interrupt period.  They're not wildly different but I can see it being the difference in something like this.  So it could depend if you're on a faster animating AS set or a slower one.  

[Blastit]

Some people just have that dog in them.

[Techwright]

2 hours ago, MrPengy said:

As an example, I was just soloing a mission on my Stalker. Up against an Lt. who was on his own. I'm hidden, Assassin's Strike one-shots him. But he managed to fire off a mace blast. Similarly, on my Arachnos Soldier, I'm hidden. I could stand near the enemy for 3 hours and not be seen. Yet every time I attack from Stealth the enemy sees me and retaliates before the attack lands.

 

I don't remember it being like this on Live. I loved having a sneaky Soldier who would come up behind people and bash them across the head. But when they respond before I've even hit them, it's like Ehhh, why bother to be sneaky? Like did I miss a change? Am I doing this wrong? Was it always this way and my rosy shades are making be think it was better in the Before Times?

 

It's not just these, nor just stealth.  I recently dueled a CoT with earthquake ability, which my earth dom likewise had, and though I lacked stealth, I did manage to get close enough behind him to use my ability as a first strike without any reaction from him based on proximity.  Imagine my surprise then, when my earthquake took multiple seconds to enact whereas he spun on the first quake and immediately activated his earthquake at my feet.  We both fell and I recovered to finish him off, but it's very annoying that there really is no such thing as a true surprise on an NPC enemy.  Also annoying that the player's earthquake power takes so much longer to activate than the NPC equivalent power.

[cranebump]

Snatch the pebble from my ha-

 

TOO LATE!

[ZemX]

56 minutes ago, Techwright said:

Imagine my surprise then, when my earthquake took multiple seconds to enact whereas he spun on the first quake and immediately activated his earthquake at my feet. 

 

It takes around 1 second before the effect lands.  The effect being the creation of the Earthquake pseudopet.  At that point, it begins ticking 5 times per second a 7% chance to knock down the enemy.  So it's not unexpected they could stand there a couple seconds before the KB chance knocks them down.

[DougGraves]

That should not happen with AS.

 

Your other attacks start and break stealth so the enemies get to respond while your attack is happening.

 

But AS should not break stealth until hit hits, so the enemy it hits should not be able to respond if they are killed by the attack.  It is possible that some specific enemies are different.

[Lordlundar]

5 minutes ago, DougGraves said:

That should not happen with AS.

 

Your other attacks start and break stealth so the enemies get to respond while your attack is happening.

 

But AS should not break stealth until hit hits, so the enemy it hits should not be able to respond if they are killed by the attack.  It is possible that some specific enemies are different.

While it should not happen, it does and always has as a result of the engine design. There is a delay between an attack being started and the hit connecting. Always has been. unfortunately buff/debuff changes get applied when the attack start, not the damage being registered.

[Snarky]

21 minutes ago, Lordlundar said:

While it should not happen, it does and always has as a result of the engine design. There is a delay between an attack being started and the hit connecting. Always has been. unfortunately buff/debuff changes get applied when the attack start, not the damage being registered.

While I appreciate the authority by which you speak (1 post ever) I have run a Stalker and did not encounter this.  I would remember.  And i would have posted.  Doug Graves seems to be saying what I have experienced in my limited time on Stalky MxStalkerton from Stalkville.

[ZekeStenzland]

I’ve always assumed that, while CoD will show whether attacks notify or not, exactly when or if an attack notifies is somewhat algorithmic. 

These are the rules as far as I’ve experimented:

• if a normal attack misses, it notifies at the start of the activation. 
• if a normal attack hits, it notifies sometime on or before any effect lands
• if assassin strike misses it doesn’t notify
• if assassin strike hits and hide procs, it doesn’t notify
• if assassin strike hits and hide doesn’t proc, it typically notifies after the damage lands

There’s a known bug with staff melee, where if you start assassin strike while hidden with weapon not drawn, the staff pops into your hands while you assume the position. Then after the wind up, instead of striking, you drop out of hiding and notify enemies while the draw weapon animation plays, and then the damage lands. 

You didn’t say what melee set you were using. I should check on my various stalker sets to see if I’m getting similar results. 

[macskull]

10 hours ago, Blastit said:

Some people just have that dog in them.

Those people should probably see a doctor, the number of dogs inside a person should be zero.

[Snarky]

So i was running a Yin with a team today.  5 person team and i am on a Blaster.  A very aggressive AR Dev Blaster.  Not built for defense. Built for range and damage.  Multiple times i get to about 30 feet (devices has a half/hidden ability) from a large group. I throw smoke grenade.  (Blasters always throwing shade…) Then i unleash Full Auto.  It does not kill all at once. It pisses everybody off. Rarely do i get hit one time even though i do this about 20 times during the Task Force. So… was your stealth on?  Do you shower regular? Are you allergic to shellfish?

[MrPengy]

14 hours ago, ZekeStenzland said:

IYou didn’t say what melee set you were using. I should check on my various stalker sets to see if I’m getting similar results. 

 

It was on a Broadsword/Dark stalker. It only happened on the one enemy, though I don't typically open with Assassin's Strike.

[Black Zot]

10 hours ago, macskull said:

Those people should probably see a doctor, the number of dogs inside a person should be zero.

 

Tell that to the old lady who swallowed a fly.