Would you rather pop UNSTOPPABLE or go to the hosp?

[NotsoevilDM]

I have Elude on Flitz as a panic button. I have found that popping a blue just as it crashes can stop his defence toggles from dropping (or allow me to quickly toggle them back on) and keep him in the fight. Usually reserved for Hamidon, when he is pretending to be the tank, or when the mission goes down the toilet.

[Sanguinesun]

On 5/12/2024 at 5:16 PM, Azari said:

Go to the hosp now or 3 mins in the future?

 

Too little context. You've seen from responses by people that its a spetrum of yes, no and maybe answers... all being qualified on the context of taking/use or not.

 

As a general rule, if you're 1-50, working casually through content either on groups or solo, using just enhancements keeping you in the equivalent % value range of level 30 IO's, you're likely not going to need to use or take unstoppable except in some unlucky and very limited circumstances where lots of inspiration popping would've been sufficient.  So asking whether your overall build as you level would be better suited to other powers for 99% of situations makes for compelling evidence to not bother with it.

 

Similar then holds true once you're fully set IO'd and incarned too.

 

Lastly, in such casual play situations, if you're on death's door, either a tank is attempting to be a wow tank by running ahead when their 1 team healer is healing the rest ofthe team still fighting(in which case the tank deserves to die), or the group dynmics vs the difficulty setting of the mission is a mismatch, or some other mistake occurred.  In which case, again, insp or just licking the carpet is just how it goes vs having that one situational emergency power that something else may be overall more beneficial to your build.

 

All in all, its a spectrum of answers for a spectrum of variable based situations. 

[Uun]

3 hours ago, NotsoevilDM said:

I have Elude on Flitz as a panic button. I have found that popping a blue just as it crashes can stop his defence toggles from dropping (or allow me to quickly toggle them back on) and keep him in the fight. Usually reserved for Hamidon, when he is pretending to be the tank, or when the mission goes down the toilet.

Suggest you take a look at your build. My SR scrapper has about 55% M/R/A defense and capped DDR. There's no situation where Elude would be useful, even as a panic button.

[Hyperstrike]

19 hours ago, Biff Pow said:

Pop Unstoppable and win the fight, rest when it drops.

That's IF you can beat them down within the time window before it becomes a delayed effect suicide button.

[NotsoevilDM]

1 hour ago, Uun said:

Suggest you take a look at your build. My SR scrapper has about 55% M/R/A defense and capped DDR. There's no situation where Elude would be useful, even as a panic button.

Not to derail the topic, but I find that certain higher level enemies (AVs and red/purple) can sometimes punch through Flitz's defences like they weren't there. It could just be specific enemy types or attacks. More lilkey, my build is not perfect and even though I am in the 50+ game, I am a long way from maxing out Incarnate levels and slotting those lvl 54 IOs and top range power set enchancements. 

 

Back on topic: The tier 9 powers were always a gamble - can I/we take down this mob/boss before it crashes. Perhaps it is easier now to cap defences/resists without needing the tier 9 as a panic button. If so, I feel that it takes some of the challenge/risk out of the game.

Edited May 13 by NotsoevilDM

[Hyperstrike]

1 hour ago, NotsoevilDM said:

Not to derail the topic, but I find that certain higher level enemies (AVs and red/purple) can sometimes punch through Flitz's defences like they weren't there. It could just be specific enemy types or attacks. More lilkey, my build is not perfect and even though I am in the 50+ game, I am a long way from maxing out Incarnate levels and slotting those lvl 54 IOs and top range power set enchancements. 

 

Back on topic: The tier 9 powers were always a gamble - can I/we take down this mob/boss before it crashes. Perhaps it is easier now to cap defences/resists without needing the tier 9 as a panic button. If so, I feel that it takes some of the challenge/risk out of the game.

There's no such thing as a "perfect" Defense.

There are villains with a certain mixes of buffs, debuffs, etc that allow them to more or less IGNORE your Defenses.
In which case you're entirely reliant on Resist.

The problem is that even with maximum Resist, you're STILL going to take regular, constant amounts of damage.

And maxing Regen/Heal/Resist/Damage Output and Defense just IS NOT POSSIBLE.

It's just math.

If your opponent can reliably do more, regular damage to YOU than vice versa, absent assistance, you're going to lose.

[KMadeleine]

17 hours ago, Ravenplume said:

The T9 on my Human/Squid Peacebringer is mandatory for her, because with it and all her shields active, she can become a giant version of her blue wisp pet.  My Human only PB will be taking it as well, for the exact same reason.

This may cause me to finally make a Peacebringer!

[Hyperstrike]

24 minutes ago, KMadeleine said:

This may cause me to finally make a Peacebringer!

Yeah.  A properly built PB can go far.

Possible Eclipse Phase Rebuild - Peacebringer - Luminous Blast.mxd

[BjorJlen]

23 hours ago, Snarky said:

My most memorable experience for Unstoppable was on Live.  I was playing a dark/Invul Brute.  This was a pretty built up high recharge build.  But Unstoppable was not perma.  I was on a PUG... (it's me after all) and we were doing a Barracuda or a Dr Khan.   We get to the end fight and the team gets overwhelmed.  Not uncommon on live.  Good builds were horrendously expensive.  They all die.  Except me.  I start cycling through unstoppable.  Shoring up the toon during the crashes with Dull Pain, Dark Consumption, Siphon Life and any imspirations that dropped.  The team went to the hospital.  Came in, and....  was overwhelmed.  REPEAT above experience.  The team came back the second time and we knocked Reichsman down. 

 

Hyperstrike swears Unstoppable is a delayed death sentence.  But this old vampire has been cheating the grim reaper for a few nights.  Having said that I use Hyperstrike builds and do not waste a pick on Unstoppable.

 

Totally this!

 

   I have had very similar experiences with my main, T'rel (Dm/Inv Scrapper here), during live as well. I took Unstoppable as well, and using it in conjunction with Dark Consumption & Dull Pain, even when no Inspirations could be had, made him nigh unkillable (even during PvP at the time). Of course, as others have said, these days who needs the T9 in most cases? Builds can be made to be, well... built so strong that in some instances, taking a T9 would make the character weaker, not stronger. So yeah, during live Unstoppable all the way, but now? Just build your character right and (most importantly), PLAY it right, and you'll be fine and never look back.

[Saiyajinzoningen]

on the few characters that i have chosen the power

i always forget to use it

[Hyperstrike]

On 5/14/2024 at 2:15 PM, Saiyajinzoningen said:

on the few characters that i have chosen the power

i always forget to use it

I never take it.

The crash is absolutely insane.  It's like stuffing a live grenade....uh...in a dark, poopy place, and then betting yourself tiy cab whip a guy to death with a wet noodle and and fish it out before..."explosive diarrhea".

[Infinitum]

Yeah unstoppable could use a revamp because - aside from some lower level non IOd builds I would never take it. 

 

On good IOd builds there's nothing unstoppable could do to make the situation any less trouble if you find yourself in trouble. 

[Aracknight]

On 5/13/2024 at 5:40 AM, Uun said:

Suggest you take a look at your build. My SR scrapper has about 55% M/R/A defense and capped DDR. There's no situation where Elude would be useful, even as a panic button.

Unless you need the +Recovery that everyone tries to forget Elude offers.  While i can easily agree that more defense isnt useful at a certain point, i always welcome me some +Recovery.

 

The obvious counter is blue inspirations, which i may not always have on me.  The second obvious counter is that i can email them to myself but i dont like to play that way.  Which means to some i am intentionally handicapping myself, unless i believe that Elude patches the hole of needing emergency +Recovery...which i do.

[Hyperstrike]

6 hours ago, Infinitum said:

Yeah unstoppable could use a revamp because - aside from some lower level non IOd builds I would never take it. 

 

On good IOd builds there's nothing unstoppable could do to make the situation any less trouble if you find yourself in trouble. 

On  this we are in full accordance...

*FIST BUMP*

[Uun]

39 minutes ago, Aracknight said:

Unless you need the +Recovery that everyone tries to forget Elude offers.  While i can easily agree that more defense isnt useful at a certain point, i always welcome me some +Recovery.

 

The obvious counter is blue inspirations, which i may not always have on me.  The second obvious counter is that i can email them to myself but i dont like to play that way.  Which means to some i am intentionally handicapping myself, unless i believe that Elude patches the hole of needing emergency +Recovery...which i do.

I take Unleash Potential. 

[Doomguide2005]

11 minutes ago, Uun said:

I take Unleash Potential. 

     And I tend to have 1) Conserve Power which is almost as redundant as Elude and 2) p2w Recovery Serum for emergencies (lucky sapper, etc).  And if really necessary use them both.  I haven't met a pack of Mu yet that'll eat through that.  

     But I also took Elude (as a mule) and in over a year of play I've used it 3 times.  Once by accident I hit the power (oops, pop CP and use serum, the second time i honestly don't recall why and the third was because the team was in a very heated close battle on a Tinpex and Bobcat had critted on me with her Eviscerate, enough to kill a Tanker, something like 3900 damage.  But she and the team were both nearly wiped.  So rather than go through retoggling 5+ toggles I popped Elude for a quick return to battle.  Elude plus auto defenses was enough to survive the next few moments.

 

[Azari]

On 5/17/2024 at 11:39 AM, Infinitum said:

Yeah unstoppable could use a revamp because - aside from some lower level non IOd builds I would never take it. 

 

On good IOd builds there's nothing unstoppable could do to make the situation any less trouble if you find yourself in trouble. 

Here’s how I’m running my quirky lil’ EM/inv scrapper (scralker) with Unstoppable.  I also have all the passive accolades.  I chased regen set bonuses and I’m running rebirth.  I actually love this for hard mode ITFs for punching Hostless Nictus Aspects off of people.  It’s especially nice when other people are buffing me with defense or running barrier.

Edited May 21 by Azari

[tidge]

I realize it is almost pointless to make suggestions to someone's build once they've committed to boosting LotG pieces to +5 and commenting how they love it for "hard mode", but here goes:

 

I'd revisit both Invincibilty and Build Up... and possibly Tough Hide.

 

Personally, I suspect that the 5th LotG set bonuses are doing less that expected. Having significantly MOAR S/L isn't nearly as important as it once was. With that written (to consider sacrificing a 5th LotG piece), I'd put the Gaussian's %Build Up piece in Invincible, and use at least one Hami-O Cytoskeleton in it to also boost ToHit.

 

Build Up is fine, and I like the "on demand" 90% chance of %Build Up with energy Melee, but if that is the reason for having it, I feel like Build Up should have a second slot with an IO Recharge in it. I find that even a near-perma-Hasten doesn't quite get Build Up where I want it when I have it slotted with the Gaussian's %proc. I ended up moving it to Invincibility because it was giving me more output at the expense of simply looking awesome against MoG Paragon Protectors. I think either way is fine, it just looks like there is sort of a half-commitment to the %proc.

 

Tough Hide is a decent enough power to hold the Kismet +ToHit, should the slots need adjustment.

[Hyperstrike]

If people want to squeeze an micro-fraction of a single percent out of their build for such a massive capital investment, that's their choice.

It's a little thing we like to call "learning the hard way".

Also, even if I KNOW I'm getting nothing for my investment, but my OCD is so terminal that I HAVE TO make sure all the plusses match?
I better NEVER see people claiming "concept" on a build EVER AGAIN!

[tidge]

1 hour ago, Hyperstrike said:

Also, even if I KNOW I'm getting nothing for my investment, but my OCD is so terminal that I HAVE TO make sure all the plusses match?

I better NEVER see people claiming "concept" on a build EVER AGAIN!

 

Never admit to such a thing in forum-PVP, or people may start posting pictures of their builds with the franken-slot pieces all in different locations.

 

Slightly more seriously: at some point, on build with Hasten,  I started boosting the two level 50 Recharges in Hasten to 50+5 (as opposed to 2x50+4) just because I didn't like having "extra" Enhancement boosters floating around.

[Herotu]

On 5/12/2024 at 9:16 AM, Azari said:

Go to the hosp now or 3 mins in the future?

Quoted for truth.

 

I really think the downsides aren't worth the upsides. Also, because they are so situational and dangerous, I forget to press the button at the right time, most of the time.  That's why I try not to take temporary boost powers.

[Azari]

4 hours ago, tidge said:

I realize it is almost pointless to make suggestions to someone's build once they've committed to boosting LotG pieces to +5 and commenting how they love it for "hard mode", but here goes:

 

I'd revisit both Invincibilty and Build Up... and possibly Tough Hide.

 

Personally, I suspect that the 5th LotG set bonuses are doing less that expected. Having significantly MOAR S/L isn't nearly as important as it once was. With that written (to consider sacrificing a 5th LotG piece), I'd put the Gaussian's %Build Up piece in Invincible, and use at least one Hami-O Cytoskeleton in it to also boost ToHit.

 

Build Up is fine, and I like the "on demand" 90% chance of %Build Up with energy Melee, but if that is the reason for having it, I feel like Build Up should have a second slot with an IO Recharge in it. I find that even a near-perma-Hasten doesn't quite get Build Up where I want it when I have it slotted with the Gaussian's %proc. I ended up moving it to Invincibility because it was giving me more output at the expense of simply looking awesome against MoG Paragon Protectors. I think either way is fine, it just looks like there is sort of a half-commitment to the %proc.

 

Tough Hide is a decent enough power to hold the Kismet +ToHit, should the slots need adjustment.

Sometimes I take one LOTG out of combat jumping and put my kismet in there, and then put a cyto in invinc. I partly uses the lotg sets for their acc bonuses. Because I’m an energy melee and tend to focus all my energy into a few strong hits I put the build up proc in build up instead of invinc where it is on my AOE focused tank.  I kinda play it like a stalker I guess.   The 5th LOTG global recharge is pretty noticable to me actually, when it comes to how often my whirling hands is up.. I just landed on this build after trying a bunch of things and seeing what felt the best. The cyto in invinc didnt seem to make much difference in terms of tohit. At least not in a noticable way, so I traded it for another regen bonus.

Edited May 21 by Azari

[tidge]

I like Global Accuracy as well. The fifth LotG bonus I was referring to was the 5th piece set bonus offering S/L and Mezz Resistance.

[Azari]

26 minutes ago, tidge said:

I like Global Accuracy as well. The fifth LotG bonus I was referring to was the 5th piece set bonus offering S/L and Mezz Resistance.

That 5th LOTG is what hardcaps my SL res. Without it I have 72.77 percent.  That’s not a bad amount considering the amount of SL defense I also have though… hm.  On the other hand hardcaps make me happy…

Edited May 21 by Azari

[BlackSpectre]

Unstoppable is great from levels 1-50, especially if you’re not min-maxing your toon’s build with all the various and expensive tools (I.e., enhancements) in the COH arsenal. Even after level 50 unstoppable can come in handy if you go up against damage types that your toon isn’t built for. So… yeah, unstoppable instead of hospital. 🙂