Lots of trademark abuse lately

[UltraAlt]

12 hours ago, Haijinx said:

Seems weird to have them in a comic book universe. 

 

 

 

[momentarygrace]

9 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

 

 

 

 

Heh. Still seems weird. Leia with purple eyeshadow, Han's gun is hot pink, Darth Vader is green, Luke's stance is brokeded, and the lightsabers are the wrong color. 

 

Definitely weird. 🙂

 

 

[Excraft]

Folks, bickering and quibbling over what is or isn't a trademark violation or what is or isn't allowed isn't the point of the thread.  It's none of our choice to make.

 

The discussion is focused on whether or not adding a tooltip or note of some kind into the costume editor about not copying existing trademarked/copyrighted works would help alleviate these violations and help clear some tickets off the plates of our volunteer GMs. 

 

2 hours ago, Triumphant said:

Here's the bottom line, though.  This is a private server, and you are a guest here.  If the people running the server are not comfortable with the character you're playing and are worried about running afoul of copywrite violations, and those same people tell you to change the appearance or name of the character for those reasons, you really need to respect their hospitality by complying, or else go find some other place to play.

 

Spot on.

[JasperStone]

I consider the Copy Infringement as House Rules.

If I have a character that gets reported.

Fine.

Tweak the name, costume, and bio.

Back to playing.

 

I have reported characters as well.

Because costume, name, and bio were too close.

[Player2]

2 hours ago, Triumphant said:

Homecoming doesn't have to allow anything.  You didn't read my entire post.

Why do you say I didn't read your entire post?  Assume much?

[Player2]

14 minutes ago, Excraft said:

The discussion is focused on whether or not adding a tooltip or note of some kind into the costume editor about not copying existing trademarked/copyrighted works would help alleviate these violations and help clear some tickets off the plates of our volunteer GMs. 

 

Well, I'm against it.  Not because I'm for the breaking of rules but because I see it as unnecessary and intrusive on the character creation screen, and why waste resources on it when the people who make those kinds of characters will still make those kinds of characters.  Oh, I'm sure there are a handful out there who plead innocence to the rules.

 

"Whaaaaat?  We're not allowed to violate trademark law?  Since when??"

 

But I think most of the people who do it know damn well what they're doing and just don't care.  They want to play their favorite character, or build off of someone else's intellectual property for their own "unique creation" that belongs-in-a-different-universe-but-they'll-rationalize-fitting-in-here-because-this-game-lets-them-make-what-they-want.  Putting up signs saying "Don't do this" isn't going to discourage them any more than the EULA telling them it's against the rules.  Some might take it as a challenge, like how seeing a "Keep off the grass" sign makes some people want to walk on the grass... like maybe putting up an extra notice in the character creation screen will have some going "Oh yeah, we'll see about that" and others trying to push the envelope of how close can they get but still claim their creation is different enough from the original.

 

So discuss whatever you want, I think it's a pointless endeavor and just plain dumb.

[ZacKing]

29 minutes ago, Excraft said:

Folks, bickering and quibbling over what is or isn't a trademark violation or what is or isn't allowed isn't the point of the thread.  It's none of our choice to make.

 

The discussion is focused on whether or not adding a tooltip or note of some kind into the costume editor about not copying existing trademarked/copyrighted works would help alleviate these violations and help clear some tickets off the plates of our volunteer GMs. 

 

Agreed and thank you.

 

5 minutes ago, Player2 said:

Well, I'm against it.  Not because I'm for the breaking of rules but because I see it as unnecessary and intrusive on the character creation screen, and why waste resources on it when the people who make those kinds of characters will still make those kinds of characters. 

 

For starters, it isn't for you to decide what is or isn't a "waste of resources" here.  That's for the HC team to decide what they want to work on.  It's also not meant to completely prevent people from making trademark violations.  If it helps alleviate some of the workload with regard to GMs getting flooded by tickets over this, then that's a good thing in my opinion.  I mean, look at what the GMs have said about the process here.  GMs have to spend time taking a look at the violation, sometimes needing to pass it up the chain for others to look at, and then even sometimes going through an appeal process.  They also have to monitor that account to make sure the character isn't recreated once its been genericed.  That seems like more a waste of GM time that can be lessened by adding a brief note about not copying existing characters into the costume editor.  Tooltips on the loading screens aren't intrusive, neither would a brief sentence or two be intrusive in the editor.

 

8 minutes ago, Player2 said:

But I think most of the people who do it know damn well what they're doing and just don't care.  They want to play their favorite character, or build off of someone else's intellectual property for their own "unique creation" that belongs-in-a-different-universe-but-they'll-rationalize-fitting-in-here-because-this-game-lets-them-make-what-they-want. 

 

That isn't my experience at all.  The overwhelming majority of players who I've PM'ed to let them know that copying Wolverine or The Hulk or whomever is against the rules here have replied and said thanks and that they genuinely didn't know.  I can understand where they're coming from since most games have some sort of skins of Marvel or DC or whatever character freely available, so it's a surprise for players to not be allowed to do that kind of thing here. 

 

16 minutes ago, Player2 said:

Putting up signs saying "Don't do this" isn't going to discourage them any more than the EULA telling them it's against the rules.

 

Like I said, most people I encounter genuinely don't know it's in the rules.  Yeah, that's their fault for not reading it fully before agreeing to log in, but I also understand why most people don't take the time to read that kind of stuff.  Have you ever read the complete terms and conditions for your phone provider or a warranty for a car or anything like that?  There's a big difference between reading through multiple pages of text and a brief sentence or two telling people not to copy trademarked characters. 

 

18 minutes ago, Player2 said:

Some might take it as a challenge, like how seeing a "Keep off the grass" sign makes some people want to walk on the grass... like maybe putting up an extra notice in the character creation screen will have some going "Oh yeah, we'll see about that" and others trying to push the envelope of how close can they get but still claim their creation is different enough from the original.

 

There's people doing this anyway and you've missed the intended targets here.  Again, no one is suggesting it's going to stop people from making clones completely, nor do I agree it would make things worse.  This is more for the people who genuinely don't know about the rule and providing them a note or tooltip in the editor that reminds them not to copy existing characters by name, bio or costume.

[PeregrineFalcon]

4 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

That isn't my experience at all.  The overwhelming majority of players who I've PM'ed to let them know that copying Wolverine or The Hulk or whomever is against the rules here have replied and said thanks and that they genuinely didn't know.  I can understand where they're coming from since most games have some sort of skins of Marvel or DC or whatever character freely available, so it's a surprise for players to not be allowed to do that kind of thing here.

Yes. I genuinely believe that most people just don't know about copyright or trademarks. They see the movies, the video games, and they think that they can just make Superman because "why not?"

 

Standard code rant and all that, but I find it difficult to believe that it'd take a lot of time and/or resources to just put a bit of large text in the character creator that says "Don't create known superheroes, we will wipe your character because we don't want to get sued", or words to that effect.

[UltraAlt]

2 hours ago, momentarygrace said:

Heh. Still seems weird. Leia with purple eyeshadow, Han's gun is hot pink, Darth Vader is green, Luke's stance is brokeded, and the lightsabers are the wrong color. 

 

Definitely weird. 🙂

 

The lightsaber colors changed quite a bit in the comic. Sometimes from issue to issue.

Oh, maybe you don't know the half of it.

 

The first - I think - six issues of the Marvel Comic covered the first movie, and the comic continued taking its own path. Then the next movie came out ... six or so issues of that movie and major course correction  .... and the same with the next movie.  The series was long gone before Star Wars episode 1 came out. I'm pretty sure I remember it going on for years after the original trilogy ended. It strayed way far and wide. I don't think Lucas bothered to provide any creative influence on it at all.

 

You should try tracking down the original version of the first Star Wars novel. Some crazy wordings in that thing. If I recall correctly, Darth Vader was called  "Dark Father" more than once, but I could have sworn that "Starkiller" was on there instead of "Skywalker". 

 

I can track down that at one point it was going to be called "The Star Wars: From The Adventures of Luke Starkiller", but I can't find an image of the book cover with "Starkiller" on it.

Lucas probably tracked them all down and gave them the Fahrenheit 451 treatment.

 

 

Not a Jedi, just another character with a beam sword. They are all over the place in anime.

[mcdoogss]

Remind me what happens to snitches again?  

[Triumphant]

2 hours ago, Player2 said:

Why do you say I didn't read your entire post?  Assume much?

I say that, because I already essentially said everything in your reply in the second part of my post.  So, the only two real possibilities are either 1) You didn't read the 2nd half of my post or 2) You lack the mental acuity to understand it.

 

I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt on the second one.  Thanks for erasing all doubt.

[PeregrineFalcon]

13 minutes ago, mcdoogss said:

Remind me what happens to snitches again?  

Snitches are reviled by criminals, prison inmates and school yard bullies. It's certainly your decision if that's who you want to pattern your moral beliefs after, but just realize that that's the case.

 

Intelligent, law-abiding adults realize that in a world where we don't want armed vigilantes murdering people in the streets, law-abiding citizens have to inform the authorities when they witness, or become aware of, illegal activities. The entire Amber Alert System fails to work if "snitches" don't call the authorities when they spot a child who's been kidnapped.

 

So tell me more about how your dislike of snitches makes the world a better place.

[shortguy on indom]

Snitches can also be reviled by the innocent.

[Player2]

2 hours ago, ZacKing said:

 

it isn't for you to decide what is or isn't a "waste of resources" here.  That's for the HC team to decide what they want to work on.

Yeah, I know, that's why I said that's how I see it and I let people know it's what I think... just like you are.  And I'm saying my opinion differs from your opinion, so I'm against the idea of adding more fluff to the code just because some people can't or won't take the time to read and understand the rules.  And unless you are part of the HC team making a statement that we do need that kind of thing, then same thing to you about letting them decide what to work on.  You could keep your opinion to yourself, but you chose to share it and I chose to share mine.  Drop it.

[Player2]

1 hour ago, Triumphant said:

I say that, because I already essentially said everything in your reply in the second part of my post.  So, the only two real possibilities are either 1) You didn't read the 2nd half of my post or 2) You lack the mental acuity to understand it.

 

I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt on the second one.  Thanks for erasing all doubt.

Or I was building on what you said.  Perhaps you just lack comprehension skills is a possible third option.

[Player2]

Just now, Krimson said:

Oh please tell us what you think will happen to players who report trademark violations.

They will be given a cookie?

 

Just kidding.  Nothing happens to them beyond getting a form email stating that the matter will be looked into and that the reporting player will not receive any additional information regarding any action possibly taken against the individual that was reported.

[ZacKing]

29 minutes ago, Player2 said:

Yeah, I know, that's why I said that's how I see it and I let people know it's what I think... just like you are.  And I'm saying my opinion differs from your opinion, so I'm against the idea of adding more fluff to the code just because some people can't or won't take the time to read and understand the rules.  And unless you are part of the HC team making a statement that we do need that kind of thing, then same thing to you about letting them decide what to work on.  You could keep your opinion to yourself, but you chose to share it and I chose to share mine.  Drop it.

 

You're certainly welcome to agree or disagree.  I was only pointing out that it's not up to you or me or anyone else to determine what is or isn't a good use of the volunteer time that the HC folk graciously give for us.  You'll note that I didn't say expressly say anything about the idea being "worth their time".  I'm only making a suggestion and leaving that decision up to HC to decide whether it's a good use of their time.  If they feel it is, great.  If not, that's fine too.

 

Also, I'm not one of your kids or your pet dog, so no, I won't "drop it".  If you want to share your thoughts and opinions, go right ahead.  I certainly won't stop you.

 

 

[Sanguinesun]

2 hours ago, mcdoogss said:

Remind me what happens to snitches again?  

 

In non-provincial thinking societies that have taught its citizens to value ethics, thuggery would not be the result as you implied... except by the already marginalized criminal and unsavory folks.  

 

There is no right way to defend the wrong thing.

 

Edited May 30 by Sanguinesun

[Excraft]

1 hour ago, shortguy on indom said:

Snitches can also be reviled by the innocent.

 

When it comes to what is or isn't a trademark or copyright violation here, HC has the final say, so deeming someone innocent or not is up to them.

[battlewraith]

“Thanks, for a country where nobody is allowed to mind his own business. Thanks, for a nation of finks.”

— William S. Burroughs

 

Moderation in all things people. 

[Player2]

14 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

 

You're certainly welcome to agree or disagree.  I was only pointing out that it's not up to you or me or anyone else to determine what is or isn't a good use of the volunteer time that the HC folk graciously give for us.  You'll note that I didn't say expressly say anything about the idea being "worth their time".  I'm only making a suggestion and leaving that decision up to HC to decide whether it's a good use of their time.  If they feel it is, great.  If not, that's fine too.

 

Also, I'm not one of your kids or your pet dog, so no, I won't "drop it".  If you want to share your thoughts and opinions, go right ahead.  I certainly won't stop you.

 

 

Oh, do I have your permission now to disagree?  Am I allowed to express an opinion on the matter that differs from your belief that they should do something?

 

It is my opinion that it would be a waste of their time.  That is my determination.  Deal with it.  Whether or not the HC team chooses to act on that, or your opinion that it would be beneficial, is entirely up to them... but I can still state my opinion on the matter without having to listen to you tell me it's not for me to decide anything.  None of anything is for any of the player base to decide... so why should anyone bother suggesting anything?  But that doesn't stop you, does it?  So just go on about stating your wrong opinions and, again, drop it with regard to me having my own opinions.

[Apogee]

next up on "Third rail topics on the CoX forums" we revisit the Name Purge process once more, follow by the age old question, "is Regen working fine?"

[Player2]

3 hours ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Standard code rant and all that, but I find it difficult to believe that it'd take a lot of time and/or resources to just put a bit of large text in the character creator that says "Don't create known superheroes, we will wipe your character because we don't want to get sued", or words to that effect.

Maybe it would be easy to implement, or maybe it wouldn't.  Even if it's easy, I still think it would be a waste of time and effort.  We don't need extra reminders not to break rules... but if you are suggesting that we do, then why limit it to just this issue?  Why not have a pop up in the chat window when ever someone is about to type something to remind players not harass other players, engage in name-calling, or any of the other behaviors that are prohibited?  Are we going to put a reminder in the base builder also in case someone tries to build a faithful recreation of the inside of the Tardis or the Ghostbusters firehouse?  Do we need a pop up in the character description screen to remind people to refrain from copyright violations?  Yeah, let's put reminders and warnings everywhere.

 

Or we could just leave it in the rules that people are supposed to read and follow, and report violations when they occur... perhaps friendly suggestions from concerned players who believe the offenders might not know, if they want to do so.

[Player2]

7 minutes ago, Apogee said:

follow by the age old question, "is Regen working fine?"

 

Edited May 30 by Player2

[PeregrineFalcon]

11 minutes ago, Player2 said:

Maybe it would be easy to implement, or maybe it wouldn't.  Even if it's easy, I still think it would be a waste of time and effort.  We don't need extra reminders not to break rules... but if you are suggesting that we do, then why limit it to just this issue?

I see what you're saying and agree with you. Quite often when I'm against a suggestion it isn't really even because I don't like the suggestion, it's because I believe that it would take a lot of time and/or effort on the part of the developers for little to no benefit.

 

13 minutes ago, Player2 said:

Why not have a pop up in the chat window when ever someone is about to type something to remind players not harass other players, engage in name-calling, or any of the other behaviors that are prohibited?

Again I see what you're saying. However, the difference is that people now days are very aware that you aren't supposed to insult or harass other players. This is something that's been made very clear across the internet for decades now. But many people aren't aware that copying a trademarked character could get Homecoming shut down, or that it's even against the rules at all.

 

Yes, yes, the EULA and/or CoC. Which, and let's all be honest here for a minute, very very few people actually read and even less remember or understand what they've read by the time they're done.

 

Also, having a bit of text right in the character creator might not actually cut down on the amount of obvious violations that zone into Atlas Park everyday, but you know what it might do? Act as a very obvious bit of evidence that Homecoming does take IP violations seriously, and that might make the difference between a suit or a simple warning letter.