General I25 build questions from an Issue 1 player

[Meph]

I want to give a brief intro since I think it will help you nice people better answer my questions.

 

I'm someone who played CoH primarily in the first year of release, never made it to 50 due to just never having the time to level grind in MMOs (also serious alt-itis). I purchased CoV but never got my most played Villain to 50 either.

 

I played a Martial Arts/Super Reflexes Scrapper primarily upon release, and those of us from that time know it was a real feelsbadman.jpg kind of ultra weak build. And though I loved the aesthetic, it took them too long to rework the MA animations. I also tried a BS/DA Scrapper as a consolation and while it was fun and unique and did tons of damage it took me damn near 30 levels to get to a point where endurance wasn't an crippling issue. I thoroughly enjoyed my Rad/Elec Defender's utility, survivability, solo strength, and blaster-like playstyle, but I never made it to end game. I also played AR/Dev Blaster, Fire/Ice Tanker, Earth/SS Controller into the 20s.

 

In CoV I wasn't really enthused by any of the new AT's except for Dominator since they did what Controllers did as well as damage. Fire/Psi was fun since all my friends were gone by this point and I could solo well and probably it ended up being my highest level character in the end.

 

All that said, I'm elated to find the game is back and better than ever! However I've come to find that many of my old beloved builds have been outclassed it seems. Though the nostalgia of recreating my old characters as close to memory is very enjoyable, perhaps this is a good opportunity to branch out and try more of the content added to the game since well... release.

 

So help me understand some things...

 

1. It seems like everyone plays a Brute. Why play a Scrapper, or a Tanker for that matter? I can see Stalker brings something a little different to the table, but Brute seems to do what those other two melee ATs do, without any of the weaknesses.

2. Why would I play Rad/Elec Defender when I can play Elec/Rad Corrupter and always be scourging?

3. Sentinels. Are they really just intended to be solo friendly Blasters? Is that the whole appeal? Why would you want to be less potent and less vulnerable Blaster and a less tanky and less melee Scrapper?

4. Is it futile to try and compete DPS wise with anything other than Bio Armor? Offensive adaptation seems like a huge balance oversight. Or is that just the result of the end-life power creep of a desperate game?

a) Or Titan Weapons for that matter? Or TW/BA?

5. How is Psionic Melee? I always thought Psi damage was super underrated since it is rarely resisted, but that seems like it never came to fruition as a mechanic? And of course the Mass Levitate does smashing...

6.  How do my old builds hold up at a glance?

a) Seems like Broadsword Scrapper has been outshined as the hard hitting primary. Or should I just play a BS/DA Brute :/

b) Similar to my question above, would my Rad/Elec Defender just end up doing less damage than an Elec/Rad Corrupter without any trade off after considering all the late gamer Enhancement and Incarnate potential (most of which I don't fully understand). And does Sonic Attack just outclass everything since it has -res?

c) Is AR just outclassed by Beam Rifle?

 

I got plenty more, but I'll wrap this up.

 

In closing, I don't necessarily have to roll a crazy powergaming min/max build. But I do enjoy understanding the mechanics and pitfalls as well as I can in order to make an informed decision about what to spend my time playing, and of course my initial MA/SR experience weighs heavily on my mind. That, and I read a great post on why SR/MA Tanker makes more sense than MA/SR Scrapper at this point so now I'm all sorts of shook.https://forums.homecomingservers.com/index.php/topic,2637.0.html

 

Thanks in advance for any replies.

[Apparition]

1. Before level 50, it doesn't matter what you play.  50+, Brute > Tanker, but Scrapper and Stalkers are different.  Scrappers outclass Brutes in damage, but don't have the survivability.  Stalkers are burst damage kings.

 

2. You wouldn't.

 

3. Again, before level 50, it doesn't matter what you play.  50+, Sentinels are only good solo or on a team with seven other Sentinels.  Outside of that, you'd be better off playing a Blaster or Corruptor.

 

4.  No.  Bio Armor is very, very good, but so are other secondaries like Radiation Armor, Electric Armor, Shield, etc.

 

5. Can't answer that one.

 

6. Martial Arts/Super Reflexes Scrapper is still good.  Not top of the line, but certainly respectable.  Go with an Elec/Rad Corruptor instead of a Defender.  As for BS, Katana gives better DPS with high recharge.  AR is certainly not outclassed by Beam Rifle.  They're just different.

[MunkiLord]

[*]1. It seems like everyone plays a Brute. Why play a Scrapper, or a Tanker for that matter? I can see Stalker brings something a little different to the table, but Brute seems to do what those other two melee ATs do, without any of the weaknesses.

In general, Scrappers will out damage Brutes, but Brutes having a higher damage cap means that isn't always the case. So with the right buffs or ideal circumstances, the Brute can pull ahead. Tanks have more HP and hold aggro better than Brutes. Brutes are very good at what Tanks and Scrappers do, but they generally don't do those things quite as well.

 

[*]2. Why would I play Rad/Elec Defender when I can play Elec/Rad Corrupter and always be scourging?

Defenders buffs and debuffs are stronger than Corruptors since they do less damage.

 

[*]3. Sentinels. Are they really just intended to be solo friendly Blasters? Is that the whole appeal? Why would you want to be less potent and less vulnerable Blaster and a less tanky and less melee Scrapper?

I have no experience with that AT.

[*]4. Is it futile to try and compete DPS wise with anything other than Bio Armor? Offensive adaptation seems like a huge balance oversight. Or is that just the result of the end-life power creep of a desperate game?

Bio Armor definitely gives the most damage for a secondary

 

[*]a) Or Titan Weapons for that matter? Or TW/BA?

TW absolutely does the most damage(at least for Scrappers, I assume it's the same or similar for the other ATs). That being said, it's an extremely slow set without momentum and it takes a significant IO investment to reach its potential. But when it gets there, TW/Bio does stupid insane damage.

[*]5. How is Psionic Melee? I always thought Psi damage was super underrated since it is rarely resisted, but that seems like it never came to fruition as a mechanic? And of course the Mass Levitate does smashing...

I don't know, but I just made a Psi/Fire Scrapper, so I'll know soon.

6.  How do my old builds hold up at a glance?

[*]a) Seems like Broadsword Scrapper has been outshined as the hard hitting primary. Or should I just play a BS/DA Brute :/

Broadsword is still perfectly useable, but you are right, it is outshined for damage. Most sets do more. If you want to use a sword, Katana is a good option since it's better than Broadsword in every way.

[*]b) Similar to my question above, would my Rad/Elec Defender just end up doing less damage than an Elec/Rad Corrupter without any trade off after considering all the late gamer Enhancement and Incarnate potential (most of which I don't fully understand). And does Sonic Attack just outclass everything since it has -res?

Sonic Attack isn't as good as the others, unfortunately. Your Rad/Elec Defender is still good, especially Rad.

[*]c) Is AR just outclassed by Beam Rifle?

Not positive, but it's my understanding, yes Beam Rifle is better.

 

[PaxArcana]

1. It seems like everyone plays a Brute. Why play a Scrapper, or a Tanker for that matter? I can see Stalker brings something a little different to the table, but Brute seems to do what those other two melee ATs do, without any of the weaknesses.

Different MaxHP limits.  Different Inherents.  Personal preference.

 

2. Why would I play Rad/Elec Defender when I can play Elec/Rad Corrupter and always be scourging?

  The buffs and debuffs for a Defender will always be higher than for a Corruptor (whereas the Corruptor's direct DPS will be higher).

 

3. Sentinels. Are they really just intended to be solo friendly Blasters? Is that the whole appeal? Why would you want to be less potent and less vulnerable Blaster and a less tanky and less melee Scrapper?

A Sentinel that needs less babysitting to avoid a face-plant, is easier on one's team-mates than a carpet-munching Blaster.  :D

[Veracor]

1). A Scrapper deals more damage and doesn't need to rely on Fury, making them better at jumping in and out of combat on top of having significantly higher damage numbers when buffed to the max.  A Tanker will have an easier time reaching def/res caps and can hold aggro for the team far better than any other AT.  Brutes are extremely popular because they excel when neither of those things are applicable, i.e. not being on a team and bunching enemies up and chugging inspirations.  AE farming is also popular, which throws a solo player into a big gob of enemies that only deal a single type of damage.  Against this (Fire is most popular), Brutes get to have Tanker levels of resistance (due to only gearing for one element) while not having too much less damage than that of a solo Scrapper.  There are also some base stat and ancilliary pool power differences -- for example Scrappers can pick up a snipe to safely pull tough bosses apart from each other.

 

2). The Defender will have stronger buffs/debuffs and secondary effects.  The Corrupter will deal more damage.  Defenders are more team-focused, Corrupters fare better independently.  Maybe the level that they pick up their abilities matters if you're exemplaring heavily, but there's really nothing else to the AT difference.

 

3). Sentinels: "Less vulnerable Blaster" isn't exactly a bad thing, considering there's many endgame AoEs or cones that can knock a Blaster out even if they're centered on the tank (It's also possible that every Blaster on my team simply LOVES hugging the AV that I'm tanking).  Sentinels are a bit of a generic gish in teams, but they can also get to 50 and solo without fear of faceplant.  I've never had problems with Sentinels in my team at 50.

 

4). Bio Armor is very good, but it is really not the end-all that people make it out to be.  Willpower, Electric, Invuln, Shield, Dark, and Radiation can all be built up to either its level or just below it -- either way, the difference in effectiveness will be trivial as this is not a game that requires minmax to succeed in.  Yes, Offensive Adaptation adds about 10% damage or so and could stand to be nerfed.  Burn says hi -- there's a reason the farmers are Spines/Fire, and not just because they're only fighting fire-breathing enemies.

 

a). Titan Weapons is a late-blooming powerset that some people love and some people hate.  It's slow to get started but ends up having the highest DPS.  I love it, but I'd advise everyone to play with it for a short while and see if you can stand that really slow initial hit when tabbing between targets in a team -- TW makes you think before committing an animation, especially on a boss with run-or-die tells or deathzones that spawn underneath players.  Bio Armor and Willpower are popular combinations with TW because they both offer better Endurance Recovery to deal with TW's large consumption, but do be aware that Bio's abilities will put your weapon away when using them, while Willpower is mostly passive/auto.  For Scrappers/Brutes, there's not much difference, but for Tankers, Bio Armor has much better aggro auras.

 

5). Psionic Melee is a feast or famine powerset.  You either do lots of damage or very little, depending on the mob type (Robots will laugh at you).  The non-blade attacks do deal some smashing damage to help you get around that.  If you're a Scrapper, Psionic Melee can easily do top tier damage in many endgame itrials as most of those crazy 54+# AVs are not robots.

 

6). MA/SR Scrapper is still fine.  It's not going to be anything special at solo, and in team play it has plenty of single target damage for whatever reason the team picked you up for.  Rad/Elec Defender is fine, as is Elec/Rad Corrupter.  AR/Dev is often talked about but I don't see it frequently at level 50.  Fire/Ice Tanker is okay.  Trollers are taken for being Trollers, usually not for their powerset choices unless the team severely lacks the secondary and can't find anyone else to fill it.

 

a). Broadsword is not in a great spot.  It is better on Scrapper than on Brute/Tanker due to fatcritz, but could stand to be buffed pretty much everywhere.

 

b). Sonic's -res is certainly useful against AVs or GMs but usually the team has enough damage and -regen to overcome the boss anyways and a defense-based debuff set is just as useful to the team.  Other sets tend to be easier to aim, as well, but I think the real reason I never see Sonic Attack is because it's so annoying to use.

 

c). I haven't played Beam Rifle but I'm pretty sure it doesn't strictly outclass Assault Rifle.  One deals damage right out of the box, the other deals damage of a less-resisted type but needs to build up a bit with Disintegration.

[Rumors]

1.  If memory serves right from someone's math, Brutes out-damage Scrappers at low level, but on most sets Scrappers pull ahead once Build Up and SOs come online and they tend to stay ahead.  Brutes typically only out-do Scrappers on like... double Kinetics teams.  Brutes are tankier though.

 

Brutes also tend to have taunt auras in stuff where Scrappers don't, which can be detrimental if you DON'T want to hold aggro.

 

Brutes also have a crippling weakness to waiting and patience.  Their biggest threat is anything AFK related.

 

 

2.  The Defender will have a stronger Rad set in nearly every respect except Fallout and EM Pulse's damage, AFAIK.  Its Electric attacks, while weaker, will drain more endurance.  Scourage is also fairly unreliable in most circumstances except really tough targets.  Like, if you can Scourge a minion consistently, then you're probably not hitting hard enough to begin with.

 

In general, there are some sets where Corrupters are much better than Defenders and vice versa.

 

 

4.  Bio Armor definitely can do a lot of damage and stuff.  Not much experience with the set, but it apparently takes a lot of investment to get to running Offensive Adaptation constantly comfortably?  Even then, most other sets bring different utility to the table or can survive things Bio cannot or are much cheaper and easier to get to their peak or require less power picks, etc.

 

6.  Broadsword still hits really hard and can still deal respectable damage.  It might not be the highest DPS, but it has some utility to make up for it.  Katana really does outshine it though.  :/  Except with Shield, Kat/Shield is not possible.

 

Your Defender would most likely do less damage, yes, but again, stronger buffs/debuffs/heals as the trade-off. 

 

Sonic Attack is really strong on a Defender, but less good on other ATs (although not bad).  It lacks some things though, like a Snipe.  It's also not great at AoE. 

 

Dunno Beam much, but from my understanding it's mostly/purely single target where AR has multiple cone options.

[Hyperstrike]

Basically you play a Brute when you want to be tougher than a Scrapper.

Generally (but not always), you play a Scrapper to do more damage than a Brute.

And while Brutes generally are 99% of the toughness of a Tank, they generally spend a bit more time...riding the razor's edge on health management.

Identically built Tanks will simply bull through and never notice the danger.

[Tankshock]

Wait, when did Corrupters gain the ability to perma scourge?  Is it one of the new procs?

[Without_Pause]

Sonic Attack isn't as good as the others, unfortunately. Your Rad/Elec Defender is still good, especially Rad.

 

O.o Sonic isn't as good? It is still one of the set blast sets. Defenders get the best -res out of it.  My main on live was Kin/elec. Went Elec/kin controller and can honestly say I'm not looking back.

[Trickshooter]

2. Why would I play Rad/Elec Defender when I can play Elec/Rad Corrupter and always be scourging?

 

b) Similar to my question above, would my Rad/Elec Defender just end up doing less damage than an Elec/Rad Corrupter without any trade off after considering all the late gamer Enhancement and Incarnate potential (most of which I don't fully understand). And does Sonic Attack just outclass everything since it has -res?

 

Outside of Scourge, Corruptors only do about 15% more damage than Defenders. If we're talking solo, Defenders are actually doing about 12.5% more damage than Corruptors before Scourge kicks in, too (because of Vigilance). This is an average though and powerset choice will affect this.

 

Defenders will actually be a bit more survivable too, and not just because of their higher heals, buffs and debuffs. Defenders actually share self +Defense and +Resistance mods with Tankers. That means that their Epic pool armor toggles function at Tanker values. So a Sonic Defender with Temp Invulberability is nearly at their S/L Resist Cap, while a Corruptor with the same two powers is only 2/3s of the way there. Or a FF Defender with Scorpion Shield and Manuevers is right at the S/L Defense softcap with no IO investment needed, while a Corruptor is still about 10% away.

 

Oh, and Defenders share their control mods with Dominators, while Corruptors are tied for lowest control mods with Blasters, MMs and the 4 Melee ATs.

 

And strangely, Corruptors are the worst AT for +/-Special effects like PBU, Benumb and Weaken.

 

But Scourge is cool, I guess.

 

Regarding Sonic, the -Res is great for fighting one enemy, but it only has a single AoE -Res outside it's nuke, which is also it's only AoE besides it's nuke that does decent damage.

 

Unfortunately, regarding Elec Blast, it's a myth that it drains more endurance than Corruptors or Blasters. They also drain the same amount because the set doesn't use the EndDrain mods for its effects.

[Myrmidon]

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/index.php?topic=5099.0

 

Take a look at Pine’s Builder from the post at the top of the General Discussion forums. This builder will let you look at different firsthand.