Don't attune that IO!!

[WumpusRat]

10 hours ago, Ukase said:

Don't attune purples or PvP IOs because they are attuned right out of the box. You can respec, or you can use unslotters, take out the attuned and replace with level 50 versions of the same enhancement. 

I always attune PvP IOs. Mostly because they start at 10th level, and if I have a 49th level one, I can't slot it into a low level character. So I'll attune it and put it back in storage, so that way any of my lowbies can grab it and use it early on.

[Riverdusk]

1 hour ago, PhotriusPyrelus said:

Your post was great, and this is true, but there's something worth mentioning here: Attuned enhancements and normal enhancements actually scale down very slightly differently.  Normal enhancements are slightly stronger at higher levels when exemplaring, while attuned enhancements are significantly stronger at the lowest levels (I had a spreadsheet a few weeks ago, but I deleted it because it doesn't *really* matter, because if you're exmplaring a lot, you should be using attuned anyway for the set bonuses).

Another reason you don't need to attune your enhancements is because you can just...buy them?  Wentworths collects all of the same Set IOs for sale and levels them up, or down, and attunes them based on buy orders.  So for example, if I put up a level 21 Performance Shifter: Endurance+, and the price matches a buy order for an attuned Performance Shifter: Endurance +, my level 21 will be attuned and fill the buy order in question.

 

Good to know, that's interesting.  Thanks. 

 

And yes, when I said I 'attune' most everything, I actually meant buy.   

[BlackSpectre]

9 hours ago, ZemX said:

 

Good question.  I generally only use attuned PvP IOs because I'm using them like any other set.  They are unlike normal IOs in that their set bonuses function at any level but I've never looking into whether their enhancement strengths scale UP like you said.  I'm only aware of exemplaring scaling IOs down.

 

I know that the PvP IO level does affect when you are able to slot that IO.  You can't for example, slot a level 20 PvP IO until you're 17, even though the set range goes down to level 10.  Attune that IO (or buy an attuned version of it) and then you can slot it earlier.  

Yes, the aspect bonuses for attuned PVP IOs scale up as you level just like normal set IOs. Here's some pics... Started with level 20 PVP IO, then attuned it, and slotted it in a level 50 toon. Aspect bonus went up from 15.4% at level 20 to 25.5% at level 50.

 

The aspect bonuses of Un-attuned PVP IOs function just like normal set IOs. Their aspect bonuses do not go beyond their level.

 

 

 

Edited June 12 by BlackSpectre

[BlackSpectre]

12 hours ago, Herotu said:

See? This is another example of the secret stuff I mentioned in the "How do we fail new players" thread. We need this information foremost for players somehow. All these niggly things that make a difference should either be;

1. entirely eradicated from the game or

2. much more prominent so we all know about them.

 

There should be no build-oriented secrets.

It's all in the wiki for players to discover whenever they choose. There are very few if any "build-oriented secrets" left after 20 years of game life. Also, consider browsing through the Guides section of this forum. There are many, many EXCELLENT guides written by players for almost every game topic under the sun. You need just look and you will discover treasure...

[Ukase]

Just now, BlackSpectre said:

It's all in the wiki for players to discover whenever they choose. There are very few if any "build-oriented secrets" left after 20 years of game life. Also, consider browsing through the Guides section of this forum. There are many, many EXCELLENT guides written by players for almost every game topic under the sun. You need just look and you will discover treasure...

I don't disagree. But I am eagerly awaiting a day when there is more information readily available within the game. Granted, for most of us, it seems kind of silly that someone interesting in finding out more wouldn't just hit the url links we give them when they ask. 

But one thing is clear to me: 
Relying on external sites for information is problematic. Eventually, the people running those sites will find something better to do. Then what? Go the HC Wiki that hasn't been updated in X years? (that's an example of what might be in the future - no reflection on current state) 

The forums here are also a treasure trove. It's just a shame the search feature is so quirky. It's probably just me, but I have better luck using Google than the forum search function. 

[Herotu]

5 minutes ago, Ukase said:

The forums here are also a treasure trove. It's just a shame the search feature is so quirky. It's probably just me, but I have better luck using Google than the forum search function. 

I Googled (DuckDuckGo'd) your definition ... please note the circled words.

[BlackSpectre]

1 minute ago, Ukase said:

The forums here are also a treasure trove. It's just a shame the search feature is so quirky. It's probably just me, but I have better luck using Google than the forum search function. 

 It's unlikely that the wiki will ever stop being updated. New players constantly trickle in and sign up to edit the wiki. Wiki editors retire, and new wiki editors take their place. As long as there are active players, there will be an active wiki.

 

Yes, agreed. Google is often better than this forums' search engine. I've learned to click the Advanced search settings and then check the "must have all the search words" box. It's the only way I can get search results that are what I'm looking for. I often tweak my searches by using synonyms of my search words and phrases and then searching again. 

[BlackSpectre]

11 minutes ago, Herotu said:

I Googled (DuckDuckGo'd) your definition ... please note the circled words.

 

 

LOL!

 

 

[BlackSpectre]

11 hours ago, tidge said:

This feels like stale advice:

 

 

On Homecoming, one Catalyst will drop ever 24-hour period for a level 50 character, assuming that they defeat something like 8-to-10 spawns of x8.

 

Hey @tidge, can you point me to the patch notes or the source for the above info? 

 

At the wiki, it states enhancement catalysts are "rare drops on a 20 hour cooldown for characters once they have reached level 50." 

 

I found this at the Issue 25 page at the wiki: "Enhancement Catalysts now drop from all critters, not just those in Incarnate content. The drop rate has been increased 10 times: it's now 1 in 200 minions, 1 in 66 lieutenants, 1 in 33 bosses."

 

 

 

11 hours ago, tidge said:

• The price of Catalysts on the market are usually capped at 1 Minf.

 

 

You might be right. Per my notes, the average price of enhancement catalysts 2 years ago was 4.8 mil inf. Yesterday, I didn't see any above 1.5 mil. And today nothing above 1 mil.

 

 

 

Edited June 12 by BlackSpectre

[Seed22]

12 hours ago, Ukase said:

The forums here are also a treasure trove. It's just a shame the search feature is so quirky. It's probably just me, but I have better luck using Google than the forum search function. 

I prefer the discord. Its where the best players in the game are readily available to provide accurate info that the forums has missed in the past, and provides bleeding edge info in real time as opposed to over several weeks

[tidge]

11 hours ago, BlackSpectre said:

 

Hey @tidge, can you point me to the patch notes or the source for the above info? 

 

At the wiki, it states enhancement catalysts are "rare drops on a 20 hour cooldown for characters once they have reached level 50." 

 

I found this at the Issue 25 page at the wiki: "Enhancement Catalysts now drop from all critters, not just those in Incarnate content. The drop rate has been increased 10 times: it's now 1 in 200 minions, 1 in 66 lieutenants, 1 in 33 bosses."

 

I "know" the daily drop rate from empyrical evidence. Twenty hours is believable, but I don't push on the 4-hour difference any more than I push on the 7-day cooldown for SSA.

 

When I feel like I need more catalysts, I usually sequentially crack out level 50s and take them through TIP missions at 0x8 or join a PUG. My Giant Monster hunter usually gets the Catalyst drop from cleaning up the even-level spawns that are ignored by many other players.

[RCU7115]

When I have 15-20 minutes to kill I'll just triple box fire farm and get 6 Catalyst real quick. I think I have around 1k floating around on different toons and SG Base storage. Why waste time going to the auction house  hoping to get an enhancement that's attuned when I can easily do it myself for free.

[ZemX]

2 minutes ago, RCU7115 said:

When I have 15-20 minutes to kill I'll just triple box fire farm and get 6 Catalyst real quick. I think I have around 1k floating around on different toons and SG Base storage. Why waste time going to the auction house  hoping to get an enhancement that's attuned when I can easily do it myself for free.

 

The advice here is that it's cheaper to sell catalysts and buy attuned IOs than to use catalysts to create attuned IOs.  Obviously, it's faster to just use the catalysts and if you have more inf than you know what to do with, you don't care about "cheaper."   

[Jacke]

17 hours ago, WumpusRat said:

I always attune PvP IOs. Mostly because they start at 10th level, and if I have a 49th level one, I can't slot it into a low level character. So I'll attune it and put it back in storage, so that way any of my lowbies can grab it and use it early on.

 

ATO, WO, Universal Damage, Purple, and PvP sets always keep their set bonuses, no matter what.

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Exemplar_Effects_on_Enhancements

 

PvP sets only have pure Procs and Globals without any enhancement aspects, so I get the PvP Procs and Globals at L10 for ease in slotting.  Like the set bonuses, PvP Globals always provide their benefit.

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Set_Enhancements_with_Special_Effects

 

I would suggest you have at most 2 sets of Attuned PvP IOs for use by Leveling Toons.  Then at L47+, use Enhancement Unslotters to remove the Attuned PvP IOs and replace them with L50 PvP IOs.

 

 

15 hours ago, BlackSpectre said:

Yes, the aspect bonuses for attuned PVP IOs scale up as you level just like normal set IOs. Here's some pics... Started with level 20 PVP IO, then attuned it, and slotted it in a level 50 toon. Aspect bonus went up from 15.4% at level 20 to 25.5% at level 50.

 

The aspect bonuses of Un-attuned PVP IOs function just like normal set IOs. Their aspect bonuses do not go beyond their level.

 

Please don't use the term "aspect bonuses" as it is confusing.  All IOs and Special Enhancements (ATOs, WOs, etc.) have multiple enhancement aspects (Accuracy, Damage, etc.) as well as set bonuses.

 

 

[Jacke]

1 hour ago, ZemX said:

The advice here is that it's cheaper to sell catalysts and buy attuned IOs than to use catalysts to create attuned IOs.  Obviously, it's faster to just use the catalysts and if you have more inf than you know what to do with, you don't care about "cheaper."

 

It's cheaper still to Market-Attune own crated IOs (ideally minimum Level) as much as possible and save dropped Catalysts to make Superior ATOs, WOs, etc.  Market-Attuning uses the binning in the Auction House to turn non-Attuned IOs into Attuned IOs.  Alas, there's no good reference for binning and it's rather easy to understand but complex to explain.

[BlackSpectre]

10 hours ago, Jacke said:

 

 

Please don't use the term "aspect bonuses" as it is confusing.  All IOs and Special Enhancements (ATOs, WOs, etc.) have multiple enhancement aspects (Accuracy, Damage, etc.) as well as set bonuses.

 

 

 

Why is "aspect bonuses" confusing? Sets don't have aspects, only individual IOs do. They both buff character attributes (including combat attributes). In fact, an individual enhancement's aspects are character attributes. 

 

So then what do we call normal enhancement bonuses?

 

Individual bonuses vs set bonuses? 

 

Normal bonuses vs set bonuses?

 

Singular bonuses vs set bonuses?

 

Common bonuses vs set bonuses?

 

IO bonuses vs set IO bonuses?

 

I am hesitant about the last one because set IO bonuses ARE IO bonuses. They are both bonuses from IO enhancements, so differentiating which is which when someone is talking about them could be tricky.  Neither the wiki nor the devs in patch notes are much help on this point. Both just call them "bonuses" and rely on the context to convey which type of bonus they're talking about.

 

Maybe call them "non-set bonuses"?

 

What do you think? Any ideas?

Edited June 13 by BlackSpectre

[BlackSpectre]

Well, after giving it a lot of thought, I've settled on some names. Unless anyone objects, from now on I'll be calling them:

 

Invention Origin Set Individual Enhancement Bonus (Individual Enhancement Bonus)

and

Invention Origin Set Enhancement Set Bonus (Set Bonus)

 

 

 

[tidge]

If I don't specifically call them out (e.g. Acc/Dam), I think of them as "attributes".

[Jacke]

If you take a look at the HC Wiki--most content of which was copied from the much older Paragon Wiki--the enhancement values are always referred to as aspects.

 

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Invention_Origin_Enhancements

[ZemX]

On 6/12/2024 at 11:43 AM, Jacke said:

It's cheaper still to Market-Attune own crated IOs (ideally minimum Level) as much as possible and save dropped Catalysts to make Superior ATOs, WOs, etc.  Market-Attuning uses the binning in the Auction House to turn non-Attuned IOs into Attuned IOs.  Alas, there's no good reference for binning and it's rather easy to understand but complex to explain.

 

I tend not to think much about "market-attuning" because the only IOs I ever craft are the random recipes that are dropped to me.  I use dropped salvage and craft whenever I have the salvage needed.  When I have a collection of random IOs from this, I take a few minutes to play some converter roulette with them to turn them into stuff that sells well.  I would rather make money this way and then just buy the IOs I need than bother crafting any significant number of IOs, then market-attuning, just to use them in a build.   I do it occasionally when I have an IO like a LotG that I know I'll use, but otherwise?  Nah.

[Jacke]

By crafting IOs for my own uses and for sale, I've already maxed out 2 Toons on all Invention and Auction House Badges.  Have 2 others doing the crafting now, one of whom has maxed out the Auction House Badges.  Currently splitting sales across most of my Toons to have them get the 4x 50ea AH Badges.

[Sovera]

There is almost no reason to use normal or boosted IOs. Be it ED at max level or stats freeze if at low level. Some people will brag about their 'all +5 build' without actually considering what they gained from it, which is often very little.

 

Even a more traditional use of using 5 purples (like Hectacomb) is already enough to max damage and recharge and, most often, provide enough accuracy to reliably hit things. What does +5-ing all of those even do? A fraction less endurance, a fraction more recharge, a bit more accuracy (useless if already acc capped, helpful if not). But that's a purple that does not care about exemplaring. Any other non purple/PvP/event IOs get shafted with exemplaring.

 

Which isn't a problem if having no desire to exemplar at all. And, since fighting +0 or +1 if exemplaring, the character will survive the experience quite fine.

 

Boosting IOs has such minimal use in the grand scheme of things. Boosting Hasten/BU allows to skimp one slot, and if frankenslotting then some strategic boosting will help reach ED thresholds with less slots since others are being dedicated to procs or to amalgamate several disparate stats (for example Siphon Life from Dark Melee if wishing to boost the heal portion of the power).

 

 

For anyone else I'd suggest sticking to attuned and slot the second it is available.

[tidge]

3 hours ago, Sovera said:

There is almost no reason to use normal or boosted IOs. Be it ED at max level or stats freeze if at low level. Some people will brag about their 'all +5 build' without actually considering what they gained from it, which is often very little.

 

...

 

Boosting IOs has such minimal use in the grand scheme of things. Boosting Hasten/BU allows to skimp one slot, and if frankenslotting then some strategic boosting will help reach ED thresholds with less slots since others are being dedicated to procs or to amalgamate several disparate stats (for example Siphon Life from Dark Melee if wishing to boost the heal portion of the power).

 

Most of the Purple sets are very light on Endurance reduction (typically one of six pieces only, e.g. Damage/Endurance in the attack sets), so I always boost those. If the purple set is in a long-recharge power, I'm probably boosting the Recharge pieces. I used to only boost 2xRecharge IOs for Hasten to +4, but because of slow effects and being able to afford the boosters I just make them +5 on the characters that take Hasten.  Similarly, boosting Accuracy is never a bad thing, although if it is paired with Recharge and procs are involved I'll crunch some numbers.

 

 

Edited June 15 by tidge