Make the body sliders relevant - connect them to character statistics

[biostem]

Some other "great ideas":

 

> Bright colors on your costume?  -stealth

> Sharp lines/edges on your costume or any glow effects?  -stealth

> Any exposed skin?  -defense -damage resistance +damage taken from environmental hazards

> No eye protection?  +chance to be blinded

> No mouth accessory/gas mask/filtration system?  +damage take from environmental hazards and instant death in any space zone or those without air

>Heels/stiletto shoes?  +chance of falling down

>No helmet? +chance of being stunned

>No reinforced gloves? +chance of breaking your hands when punching

 

Are we playing a superhero game or do we want this to be a real life simulator?

Edited July 22 by biostem

[Ukase]

44 minutes ago, biostem said:

So if we limited powersets to only certain origins, that'd be good because it's different than how things are now? 

I didn't say it would be good. I said it was creative/imaginative. It could be fun. I've had the same kinds of thoughts myself, only not so detailed. 

I was simply wanting to encourage the OP to continue to be creative. It's an attribute in which I am woefully weak, and I envy the ability to think in that fashion. 
I hate the costume creator because I have no idea how to be very creative in that sense. I can think of how heroes and villains have appeared in comics and on tv, but coming up with my own creative design...that's not in my wheelhouse. 

You clearly feel strongly about this suggestion made, which is fine. By all means, continue to express yourself. It's what the forums are for. 

I still like the idea but think it's impractical, and frankly, I don't want to respec all my characters for it. But if a new character would be able to be more stealthy or have more Hitpoints based on certain physical attributes...it'd be interesting for a few days, anyway. Every tank would be as large as they could be, I imagine. It doesn't matter, as the odds of it ever being implemented are very close to zero. 

[SeraphimKensai]

I fail to see any merit in the original suggestion and note that it would stifle the creativity of a player in how they create their characters by limiting character concepts.

 

For those reasons, I vote

 

/Jranger.

[Rudra]

4 hours ago, Ukase said:

The idea that being smaller would increase something like stealth is not intuitive.

Actually, it is very intuitive. It has been done many, many, many times. Antman and the Wasp get bonuses to stealth because of how tiny they are. Games like Hero System (Champions) give templates for Small characters that increases how much KB they take, makes them harder to hit in combat, and makes them harder to spot when sneaking around. And for those specific game systems or character concepts, it works fine. I much prefer CoX's approach though. Because while I can't make a massive dragon that goes unseen behind a 2 feet high shrub, I can still make my characters however I want.

[Ukase]

53 minutes ago, Rudra said:

it is very intuitive.

For 98% of you, perhaps. It's not intuitive to me - at least, not in the way I think about stealth. I'm not so much thinking about sneaking around, but about being hard to see. 

And I was thinking more about the difference between someone 4 foot tall and someone 6 foot tall, not someone 6 inches tall and someone 6 foot tall. 

But you're right. I never even thought about Antman/Yellowjacket or the Wasp. 

[Luminara]

32 minutes ago, Ukase said:

For 98% of you, perhaps. It's not intuitive to me - at least, not in the way I think about stealth. I'm not so much thinking about sneaking around, but about being hard to see.

 

#catpeopleknow

 

[Alchemystic]

Roblox phsyique meta

[Ukase]

5 hours ago, biostem said:

Heels/stiletto shoes?  +chance of falling down

You forgot the "Cape" - increased chance of tripping. I am pretty sure I remember one of the actors who portrayed Batman talking about that. 

[lemming]

4 hours ago, Rudra said:

Games like Hero System (Champions) give templates for Small characters that increases how much KB they take, makes them harder to hit in combat, and makes them harder to spot when sneaking aro

Yes, that used to be backed into powers such as Shrinking, Growth, and Density Increase.   They realized too many people who wanted a small non-stealthy char, etc... had to sometimes do odd things to play what they wanted, they now make it more straightforward.

[Rudra]

14 minutes ago, lemming said:

Yes, that used to be backed into powers such as Shrinking, Growth, and Density Increase.   They realized too many people who wanted a small non-stealthy char, etc... had to sometimes do odd things to play what they wanted, they now make it more straightforward.

Yeah, the powers had it already built in. I was referring to the size templates in the appendixes for players that wanted to simulate larger or smaller characters without it being a temporary thing like Growth or Shrinking do though. (Edit: Though even at that, it wasn't a requirement. If you wanted a stealthy 50 feet tall character, you weren't required to take the size penalty to your Stealth roll if you chose not to use a template.)

 

Edited July 22 by Rudra

[Luminara]

14 minutes ago, lemming said:

a small non-stealthy char

 

I'm envisioning an angry cicada beating the stuffing out of things 100x bigger.

[lemming]

26 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Yeah, the powers had it already built in. I was referring to the size templates in the appendixes for players that wanted to simulate larger or smaller characters without it being a temporary thing like Growth or Shrinking do though. (Edit: Though even at that, it wasn't a requirement. If you wanted a stealthy 50 feet tall character, you weren't required to take the size penalty to your Stealth roll if you chose not to use a template.)

That was started in 5th edition, prior to that, it was required.   Templates probably were from Hero Designer?  While I liked 6th edition, I wound up switching what little TTRPG I get to Prowlers & Paragon UE.

 

25 minutes ago, Luminara said:

I'm envisioning an angry cicada beating the stuffing out of things 100x bigger.

Pretty sure would also have some Sonic powers.   I think the closest I had was "The Mighty Flea"

[keyguardactive]

I think, for the purposes of this game in particular, freedom is superior to prescriptive. Being able to apply the powers and stats I like to whatever avatar I build has always been part of the fun. I think adjusting stats based on appearance would take away from that. 

 

Also, OP's replies have a little bit too much bio-essentialism for me, especially in a world full of aliens and magic robots. 

 

So, as if it was up for a vote, I vote no. 

[biostem]

7 hours ago, Ukase said:

the way I think about stealth

Further, this doesn't take into consideration things like being stealthy due to subtle psionic abilities that make others simply not notice you, or something like optical camouflage or maybe even some sort of limited phasing that makes you harder to detect;  it's not always about size or camouflage patterns as we find IRL.  Similarly, what if the very small character glowed brightly, or maybe was extremely hot or cold, and gave off highly detectable/noticeable radiation?  Or, what if *my* character can detect life or maybe just the differences in temperature or composition between someone hiding and the background or environment they are hiding against/in...

[Psyonico]

1 hour ago, biostem said:

due to subtle psionic abilities that make others simply not notice you

 

Are you suggesting a "Somebody Else's Problem" field?

[biostem]

2 minutes ago, Psyonico said:

 

Are you suggesting a "Somebody Else's Problem" field?

Actually, I was thinking waaaaay back to Vampire the Masquerade, and The Nosferatu <cough> @Snarky <cough> and one of their abilities, ("Obfuscation", I think), that didn't make them invisible, just that nobody notices them...

[Ghost]

Since the OPs suggestions always seem AI generated, I asked AI his question….

 

In City of Heroes, the decision not to tie body sliders directly to gameplay stats is primarily rooted in creative freedom and diversity. Here are a few reasons why this approach was taken:
- Character Customization: City of Heroes emphasizes character customization, allowing players to create unique heroes with distinct appearances. By decoupling body sliders from stats, players can freely adjust their characters' proportions, features, and overall look without worrying about performance implications.
- Avoiding Meta Optimization: If body sliders influenced stats, players might feel pressured to optimize their characters based on specific slider configurations. This could lead to a meta where everyone aims for the same "ideal" body proportions, limiting creativity and resulting in less diverse hero designs.
- Separation of Aesthetics and Mechanics: City of Heroes intentionally separates aesthetics (appearance) from mechanics (gameplay). This design philosophy encourages players to focus on role-playing and storytelling rather than min-maxing stats. It also ensures that players can express their creativity without sacrificing effectiveness in combat.
- Community and Identity: The game's community values individuality and celebrates the wide range of hero designs. By keeping body sliders separate from stats, City of Heroes fosters a sense of identity and encourages players to embrace their unique characters.
In summary, City of Heroes prioritizes player creativity, diversity, and role-playing by allowing body customization without impacting gameplay effectiveness. Different servers or private servers may handle this aspect differently, but the core philosophy remains consistent across the game's history. 😊🦸‍♂️
 

[Triumphant]

10 minutes ago, Ghost said:

Since the OPs suggestions always seem AI generated, I asked AI his question….

 

In City of Heroes, the decision not to tie body sliders directly to gameplay stats is primarily rooted in creative freedom and diversity. Here are a few reasons why this approach was taken:
- Character Customization: City of Heroes emphasizes character customization, allowing players to create unique heroes with distinct appearances. By decoupling body sliders from stats, players can freely adjust their characters' proportions, features, and overall look without worrying about performance implications.
- Avoiding Meta Optimization: If body sliders influenced stats, players might feel pressured to optimize their characters based on specific slider configurations. This could lead to a meta where everyone aims for the same "ideal" body proportions, limiting creativity and resulting in less diverse hero designs.
- Separation of Aesthetics and Mechanics: City of Heroes intentionally separates aesthetics (appearance) from mechanics (gameplay). This design philosophy encourages players to focus on role-playing and storytelling rather than min-maxing stats. It also ensures that players can express their creativity without sacrificing effectiveness in combat.
- Community and Identity: The game's community values individuality and celebrates the wide range of hero designs. By keeping body sliders separate from stats, City of Heroes fosters a sense of identity and encourages players to embrace their unique characters.
In summary, City of Heroes prioritizes player creativity, diversity, and role-playing by allowing body customization without impacting gameplay effectiveness. Different servers or private servers may handle this aspect differently, but the core philosophy remains consistent across the game's history. 😊🦸‍♂️
 

 

Huh.  A surprisingly cogent defense of why we wouldn't want that change.  Go Large Language Model! 😄👍

[Ukase]

9 hours ago, biostem said:

Further, this doesn't take into consideration things like being stealthy due to subtle psionic abilities that make others simply not notice you, or something like optical camouflage or maybe even some sort of limited phasing that makes you harder to detect;  it's not always about size or camouflage patterns as we find IRL.  Similarly, what if the very small character glowed brightly, or maybe was extremely hot or cold, and gave off highly detectable/noticeable radiation?  Or, what if *my* character can detect life or maybe just the differences in temperature or composition between someone hiding and the background or environment they are hiding against/in...

You have a high bar for suggestions, I see. Perhaps you put a great deal of time and thought into your own suggestions. I never do. I merely ask myself if it would be interesting or fun. 
The "Can it be done" or "Should it be done" never enter my mind. 

Still, I had an additional thought that should never and will never be implemented  - and that is a thought that occurred to me during this mornings row on the C2 erg. As I get tired, I noticed I have a tendency to over-reach. My form breaks down. Same with dumbbell curls, that I do in between 500 meter reps. As the dumbbell approaches near that halfway point where the full weight is more noticeable, there's a tendency to lean back and cheat. As fatigue enters the body, form breaks down. 

Yet, this doesn't happen with our characters. Sure - there are instances where our stamina is so low we don't have enough to execute the attack, but if we can hit a bullseye at 150 feet in a rested state, odds are we can't do that if we're tired. If the power takes 10 pts of endurance, and we have 20 in game, no problem. Our toHit and accuracy formula gets calculated, and how tired our characters are don't enter into the formula. It's along the same lines of the -accuracy we used to have from having a travel power on. It's the difference between hitting a stationary target or a moving one. (big difference, need more skill and practice) Even harder when the target and you are moving. (would like to try this in real life with a bow and arrow, but I'm too cheap to buy the bow) 

Thankfully, our characters don't suffer from -accuracy unless debuffed. It would be less fun and more annoying if they did. I see that. And yet...it's interesting. At least it is to me. 

[Purrfekshawn]

On 7/22/2024 at 4:56 PM, biostem said:

>Heels/stiletto shoes?  +chance of falling down

 

Luckily my girly tewn do not wear tha'! So not the subjects for occasional Knockdown. Although with these styles & these rules l believe that would be:

-on movement chance of getting occasional Lethal Damage & receive solid slowdown for a good while...

Lahle!