Aggravated

[Crossie]

#100 post!!  VIKTERY

[Seed22]

23 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

 

Sorry, I said I was done . . . but I was dragged back in by this statement.  Allow me to judo your argument:

 

When someone (you) has access to a tool to make something not a problem (turning off group fly) and they neglect to use it (after being asked to). . . the ball is in that person's (your) court for what comes after (you get booted).

The jokes write themselves with OP.

 

I truly don't think they're capable of grasping they were wrong. Well subsequent boots and potentially being blacklisted from runs will result in more main character syndrome post like this, or them quitting. Either way this'll be interesting to watch for sure.

 

[Seed22]

1 hour ago, Gravitus said:

not ironic at all when you can stop it from happening. And yeah no.....keeping bots out of melee range of an AV is pretty important

Psst.

 

Your MM isn't helping anywhere near as much as you think it was. Your bots can take a hit and literally almost DPS would be lost. You'll be fine champ 😉

[Gravitus]

7 minutes ago, Seed22 said:

The jokes write themselves with OP.

 

I truly don't think they're capable of grasping they were wrong. Well subsequent boots and potentially being blacklisted from runs will result in more main character syndrome post like this, or them quitting. Either way this'll be interesting to watch for sure.

 

I’ve been playing this game on and off since 2004. I can count on one hand how many times I’ve taken a boot during that time. If it was common I wouldn’t have made a thread about it. 
 

But let’s say you’re right and that happened . Dude I got like 4 accounts with no limit in sight. If I want to play this game I’m gonna play this game. Simple as that. 

[Snarky]

6 hours ago, Gravitus said:

This is a vent post...and if this describes something you've done to others, I hope you stub your toe walking around the house this week.

 

So, I run a bots mm that utilizes group fly. Bots are primarily ranged attackers, so I like to fly the team around and blast things from out of melee range...plus it just looks cool when the bots are using their thrusters. I'm practical...I won't use it in closed maps like caves.

 

At any rate I'm in a TF and 75% of the way through the leader asks me to turn it off (in a open map no less) I refuse because others shouldn't be able to impose on my playstyle (when Null exists to solve that issue) and I get booted.

 

As a casual gamer my time is very valuable to me and getting through most of the TF just to not get the rewards was super aggravating. Can GMs do nothing to these people if we report them?

it's hard to take sides here.  everyone is an arsehole.

[JasperStone]

Just now, Snarky said:

it's hard to take sides here.  everyone is an arsehole.

[Gravitus]

8 minutes ago, Seed22 said:

Psst.

 

Your MM isn't helping anywhere near as much as you think it was. Your bots can take a hit and literally almost DPS would be lost. You'll be fine champ 😉

That statement is almost true for anyone in a team of 8. 
 

At any rate it’s a moot point because good strategy is good strategy whether your DPS is needed or not. The alternative is to sit there and not play the game , but if I’m doing that, might as well not turn the game on at all. 

[Maelwys]

  

15 minutes ago, Gravitus said:

Consider what's at stake.

  

15 minutes ago, Gravitus said:

The person using GF has to stop playing their toon as it was intended to be played 

 

OR

 

Someone spends 2 minutes to activate a feature that has zero negative effect on them.

 

Pretty simple math bob. 

Unfortunately multiple other fellow Mastermind players and advocates for the use of Group Fly have stated opinions and experience to the contrary in this very thread.

The consensus here appears to be that Temporarily turning off Group Fly will have very little impact on your gameplay (Leveraging FOLLOW or GOTO commands on the ground is doable 99.9% of the time and at most will require a few extra clicks from you; the player who is familiar with micromanaging the critters in the first place) and would be the polite and appropriate response in general teaming situations; let alone in a TF where the other party would have to actually quit the task force in order to visit Null.

Also Robotics henchmen (unlike a lot of MM Primaries) take very little micromanaging to get them to clump up. Across many, many, many hours of gameplay I can confidently state that they work just fine at range whether on the ground or in the air. Group Fly is primarily just a method of keeping them out of melee and AoE range of tough enemies, something which is simply not needed on teams where you're getting lots of additional buffage and/or your teammates are locking down aggro either via taunting or spamming CC abilities. Apart from that it's only been on huge dedicated farming maps (where there are so many NPC bodies milling around on the ground that I have found myself simply UNABLE to get my henchmen to cluster tightly enough together for buffs) that running it really matters. 

Worst case, I'd have just picked a different route far away from the rest of the team and Tankerminded it - the vast majority of MM combinations can solo a TF by themselves anyway. 

[GM_GooglyMoogly]

 

 

 

 

[Krimson]

If someone wants to use group fly they should be able to. It's a feature built into the game. Giving someone a hard time for using a built-in feature is a dick move. 

 

There's no warnings on the power. How the hell is a new player supposed to know that a segment of the player base is going to get their panties in a bunch over a power? They're not. 

 

How long does everyone else get a free pass on using Null to adjust their experience so they don't have to dump on someone else's? 

 

This sort of attitude is why I don't team at all. People will gripe over anything. 

[merrypessimist]

46 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

 

 

Can you not acknowledge that group fly negatively effects other players?

 

 

No, because that would require he admit being wrong and give consideration to someone other than himself.

[Skyhawke]

[Crossie]

I'll share a similar story.  There was this lady who was the group leader (Ugly costume, ugly personality) and insisted on rolling together.  I am 100000000% okay with that.  The issue was, between each group, she would stop, create a strategy within the group and explain how she wanted everybody to go about it.  

 

Girl... Literally I can just walk into the mobs and 1 shot all of them on my blaster.  We good.

 

Anyway...  One of the tankers (she was the other) started going ahead while she stopped to type.  Slowly, the group started following the other tanker leaving her behind.  She said since the group doesn't want to roll around together, she will just wait at the start.  We steamrolled the rest of the dungeon and she kicked the other tanker.  Everybody just left thereafter.  She's one of the few hero names I remember in this game and I will -NEVER- group with her again.  Not in a million years.  

 

I see her advertising in LFG almost every day filling up random mission groups and I just bite my tongue to say nothing.  I will admit because I'm a Christian man and cannot tell a lie that I did say her costume is ugly every time I see her type in LFG chat.  That's behind the computer screen though.  If I see her in the streets I'll rip her weave out.  That much I know.

[Jimpy2]

7 hours ago, Gravitus said:

About the door swinging both ways...I think that only becomes a viable argument if Null didn't exist. As far as I'm concerned, they didn't take the correct steps. 

I agree. Every single toon I have visits Null usually by level 4 or 5. I started this after a Citadel TF where a kinetics person kept throwing speed burst making nearly impossible to get through the caves. Speed boosts recovery and regeneration come in handy, so Null it is. 

[Nerio72]

YOU took a power that effects other players. There is a way to turn it off,yes. I am not required to turn it off. Maybe at some point I would like to have Group Fly and might prefer that it wasn't disabled. for example if someone says "Hey, I have group fly, should we use it?" "Sure man, that sounds great!" So now I have to go back to Null to turn it back on because you didn't want to be a team player. You could have turned the power off when asked and then discussed it with him AFTER the TF.

[Maelwys]

4 minutes ago, Krimson said:

If someone wants to use group fly they should be able to. It's a feature built into the game. Giving someone a hard time for using a built-in feature is a dick move. 

100% agree. 

However having something someone else does affect your own character's gameplay can be hellava annoying.
See Speed Boost, Knockback Spam, etc.
Admittedly it's usually Melee players that gripe about this stuff; and there are methods (like Null and AoE Immobilises) to cope with most of them.
 

Quote

There's no warnings on the power. How the hell is a new player supposed to know that a segment of the player base is going to get their panties in a bunch over a power? They're not. 

 

How long does everyone else get a free pass on using Null to adjust their experience so they don't have to dump on someone else's? 

 

This sort of attitude is why I don't team at all. People will gripe over anything. 

This is not a new player.
See "I’ve been playing this game on and off since 2004."

Whilst I personally do think that going to Null is ultimately the thing to do... in this case their teammates would have been unable to do that until the TF ends. And ultimately it sounds more like this was an issue with not listening to the person with the star more than anything else. The team leader asked one of their recruited followers to do something, was refused; and then kicked the offender. That kick took place later on during a TF and it may have been well-deserved or tyrannical depending on who you ask; but what occurred is still firmly within the limits of what a team leader is allowed to do and there doesn't appear to have been any other active griefing taking place. So definitely not one for the GMs.

I'd like to think more communication may well have smoothed things out... but some folk are just plain harder to co-exist with than others.

  

All that said - in this case the request may have been to turn off Group Fly. But it could have been a request to turn off a genuinely migraine-inducing bubble power (I've seen this happen) or just changing to a less annoying costume (this too). Some requests are more frivolous than others. 

(I suppose I should be thankful that both players in question even had their chat windows enabled...)

 

[Krimson]

1 minute ago, Jimpy2 said:

I agree. Every single toon I have visits Null usually by level 4 or 5. I started this after a Citadel TF where a kinetics person kept throwing speed burst making nearly impossible to get through the caves. Speed boosts recovery and regeneration come in handy, so Null it is. 

Yep if one of my toons suddenly starts hovering that's my fault not the player with group fly. As for SB in caves. Eventually you'll memorize the map layout. 

[Glacier Peak]

 

 

[TygerDarkstorm]

2 hours ago, Gravitus said:

I'm skeptical how good this guide is. This game is as hard or as easy as one wants it to be......but if you like not being carried by your teammates then you should acknowledge keeping your bots out of melee range is a sound strategy. 

Using group fly to keep your bots out of melee range of an AV or any mob is absolutely not a requirement and having it doesn't somehow make you superior. There are numerous ways to keep your bots out of range, one of which is the go-to command. Bots are not required to be in the air to stay at range. The fact that you refuse to acknowledge any part you could have played to be in the wrong is not winning you any favors in this thread, on top of making statements like this that somehow imply group fly is a requirement to play bots well.

 

Let's be honest; the main reason some bots players take group fly is because bots getting rocket boots is amusing, not because it's necessary.

[Lunar Ronin]

This is all just IMO.

 

Personally, if asked to turn Group Fly off, I would have just one starred the TF leader so I know to avoid him or her in the future, and politely left the team.

 

But, but, but... Group Fly was buffed to be much better for Masterminds to use back in April 2021, three and a half years ago.  As a result, quite a few Mastermind players are going to use it.  It's not just a decorative choice.  Group Fly makes Mastermind henchmen both more survivable and do more damage in quite a few instances.  Sure, we could turn it off every time we're asked to, and I personally did just that for years.  But what happened?  No one bothered to take the two minutes to go to Null the Gull after.  They just kept repeatedly insist that I turn it off.  So after I while, I stopped turning Group Fly off.

 

I mostly lead my own teams now.  I give people warning that I use Group Fly.  Heck, I have it in the information channel in my Discord server.  I give people time to go see Null the Gull if necessary.  But I don't turn off Group Fly anymore.

[Tax E]

I have a bots/kin MM and I use repel as my "bowling for baddies" power while my bots protect me in body guard mode. I didn't have a KDtoKB proc in it and I have been booted. 

SO, I compromised, I put a KDtoKB in it as to not annoy other players. Problem solved. 

 

Maybe a little bit of compromise on the OPs part would be kind. I know when in a TF, I cannot rush off to Null to change the option (unless that was changed)... either way. We can compromise and still have a blast! 😄

[Uncle Shags]

1 hour ago, Krimson said:

If someone wants to use group fly they should be able to. It's a feature built into the game. Giving someone a hard time for using a built-in feature is a dick move. 

Other features built into the game are the star and the boot.  If someone wants to use them they should be able to. 

[ZacKing]

3 hours ago, Gravitus said:

When someone has access to a tool to make something not a problem and they neglect to use it...the ball is in that person's court for what comes after. This is very basic logic. Null has that option so people can not be affected by GF whilst still letting people use GF. So, the idea that I expect people to cater to me is utter nonsense.

 

You have access to a tool to make GF not a problem - turning it off.  That's very basic logic too.  Not having GF on in no way prevents you from playing your character at all.  You yourself have admitted a few times now that you don't use it everywhere all the time, so it's clear it isn't necessary, so turning it off when requested by others in a team isn't a hardship for you. 

 

3 hours ago, Gravitus said:

Also, you are ASSUMING the team was being affected...he's the only guy in the entire chat log that said anything, he just happened to have a star by his name.

 

So you say.  None of us were there and can know what happened for sure.  What we do know is that the team leader asked you to turn off GF because it bothered them, and you refused to do it, so they booted you.  They didn't do anything wrong.

 

3 hours ago, Gravitus said:

So, we have a guy that didn't use Null, was the only one whom asked me to turn it off....and let me waste about 45 min of my life before it was an issue.

 

And had you just turned off GF as requested, you could have finished the TF without any problem.  Again, it's you that's the problem here.

 

3 hours ago, Gravitus said:

It's clear someone hurt you with GF at some point in time.... let it go homie. 

 

I can comfortably say that I can count on one hand the amount of times I've been on a team or league with someone using GF.  And in each instance if it was disruptive to the rest of the team, that person was kind enough to turn it off.  They weren't rabid narcissists, so they didn't have an issue with it and throw tantrums about it.  I don't team a lot,  but when I do most people are happy to adjust their play style to accommodate the needs of the team.   Most people realize teaming is a social interaction that's about the group, not just you.

[cranebump]

Never ending storrrrrr-eeeeee! (La dadadedada)

 

Sorry. This thread just keeps round round right round. Like a…a…well, a something.

 

(but really, how hard is it to just turn off GF, finish the TF, then move on?)

[ZacKing]

26 minutes ago, Lunar Ronin said:

I mostly lead my own teams now.  I give people warning that I use Group Fly. 

 

This is the correct, sociable, non-narcissistic thing to do.  You're doing the right thing by communicating ahead of time and allowing others to make an informed decision.