How do you feel about 'lone wolfing'?

[lemming]

Why do these threads have to be binary?  It's a spectrum of play styles.   Some don't mesh, but work great with like styles.  Find your people and have fun, but don't harsh other people's mellow.

[PhotriusPyrelus]

1 hour ago, Seed22 said:

Would you believe me if I told you thats one of the highlights of the AT and what they did before stalker buffs?

 

Thats kind of like me getting mad at the fender for buffing me. Seems a lil weird

So don't invite stalkers if I actually want to play the game; got it.

[Owl Girl]

playing with Stalkers and inattentive Tanks and Masterminds that over-value the lives of their minions and dudes that took every pool attack is part of actually playing the game.

 

i dunno how many people here enjoy comic books, but i seem to remember half the fun of that medium being different characters with different combat styles and law enforcement philosophies learning to work in concert.

[cranebump]

53 minutes ago, Krimson said:

That's a byproduct of the society we live in. We are constantly conditioned to view things as either/or or neither/nor, and told that things either have to be good or bad. Human perception is shaped by the illusions of society from birth to the point where we don't even question our existence, we just accept that the view is how it is and how it should be.

No. I'm sorry. You're completely wrong. /jranger and all that shit.

 

(kidding):-)

[Seed22]

2 hours ago, PhotriusPyrelus said:

So don't invite stalkers if I actually want to play the game; got it.

When people say “do X or Y if I want to actually play the game” I know you:

 

A.) were operating off shaky foundation with your initial argument.

 

B.) “Argue” from a disingenous standpoint and are upset when presented a valid and equally correct counterpoint.

 

Enough years with y’all has told me this is rarely wrong. Now I am sure you or someone else will give me a snarky response as a retort.

 

 

Edited October 9 by Seed22

[Seed22]

2 hours ago, Krimson said:

My stalker never uses stealth and has been the tank in groups. Unfortunately, if you want to play in a group in this game, your Stalker can't be sneaking around like an assassin. You have to thug it out like the rest of the mob.

I have 5 50 stalkers and years with the AT, all the way back to their initial release. You absolutely can do the whole assassin thing and still be a helpful member of the group. You can now, thanks to i22(?) buffs to the class, scrap it out, again with hide still and the stalker ATIO(which is nuts!) with the rest of the team if so desired.

 

I have never, and will never, be on a team where I get complaints for utilizing the main draw of the class; stealth, to get an objective early. 
 

How I also do it, and I think this will help all of you with getting the most out of the class in a team, is I rush to the boss and ATT or ST TP the team to my location. Then AS the boss and scrap it out the rest of the way.

 

[PhotriusPyrelus]

50 minutes ago, Seed22 said:

When people say “do X or Y if I want to actually play the game” I know you:

You said "know" but you mean "assume".  And you know what they say when you assume things...

Funny how in your own pithy, insulting response, you rail against a pithy, insulting response.

EDIT:

  

4 hours ago, Seed22 said:

A lot of people who demand everyone stick together are the people being hard carried in the team anyway.

Careful you don't fall off that high horse.  You're probably one of those DPS nerds who thinks that you're "Carrying" when you kill everything before anyone else can hit a button, completely ignorant of the fact that DPS is zero sum.

Guess it never even occurred to you that just maybe people play team content to play as part of a team.  So yeah, go play solo if that's what you want.

Edited October 9 by PhotriusPyrelus

[ZemX]

48 minutes ago, Seed22 said:

I have never, and will never, be on a team where I get complaints for utilizing the main draw of the class; stealth, to get an objective early. 

 

It doesn't matter what you think the purpose of your AT is.  If you're on a team that has agreed not to stealth objectives, you don't do it.  If you never join such teams with your Stalker, great.  It's never going to be a problem for you.  Presumably, the person who was complaining about this was talking about kill-most or kill-all teams, not speed runs.  Wouldn't make sense to complain about someone speeding on a speed run.

[biostem]

On 10/7/2024 at 11:39 AM, Story Archer said:

Would this sort of behavior bother anyone, and if so, why?

I would argue that there's "teaming", and there's "soloing in a group".  What you seem to be describing is the latter - each person is essentially on their own, and you're just teaming out of convenience/for better rewards/to join together for some big end battle you can't or don't want to attempt alone later on...

[Skyhawke]

9 hours ago, Seed22 said:

 

 

Enough years with y’all has told me this is rarely wrong. Now I am sure you or someone else will give me a snarky response as a retort.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 9 by Skyhawke

[Maelwys]

1 hour ago, Skyhawke said:

He's already weighed in on Page #1... poor chap's been over-invoked recently!



Regarding lone-wolfing; surely that's been a major draw of many of the melee ATs since day #1?

Sure, what with all the power creep from Inventions and Incarnates "Scrapperlock" may have become more common on other ATs in recent decades... but I remember an awful lot of situations circa issue 6 ish where the rest of the team took one fork and one of my Scrappers took the other and we met in the middle (generally for the sake of good-natured competitive merriment rather than as the result of greediness, alcohol intake or sleep deprivation!). IMO it's all good as long as you don't get in over your head and your absence doesn't particularly negatively impact the rest of the team (as even today certain team compositions still end up with someone filling a "Main Tank" or "Healer" role...).

For this sort of player, myself included, teaming is primarily about socialising rather than about gathering sufficient extra firepower to overcome an obstacle.

However I can understand that at lower levels and/or when exemplaring down to join lowbie TFs most toons' power levels won't have peaked yet; and therefore there may be substantially less wiggle room for showboating. Good natured or otherwise.
 

Edited October 9 by Maelwys

[Neiska]

14 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

 

First, I started playing in 2004 as well. So you have no seniority over me as far as game play.

 

You are overly defensive toward power-leveling (replying to my comment about power-leveling through AE-farm door sitting and joining level-50 radio mission teams) by extrapolating my comment into a bunch of other instances that I did not state.

 

 

Sure. There is nothing in the CoC says that say you can't ruin other players game experience by doing what you are stating.

I don't think that you care about what other players think if you think that behaving in that manner to teammates on a team of characters that are leveling is your right regardless of what the rest of the group thinks.

 

If you are on my team doing that, you are going to get warned and then you are going to get the boot.

... and, guess what, that isn't against the CoC either.

 

Also, if I'm not having fun on a team - for example if there is someone on a team that is doing what you are suggesting that someone would like to do for "fun" - then I would most likely leave the team as politely as I could at the soonest opportunity. 

If other people on the team complained about a character doing what you are suggest, then I would also complain to the team leader about it. And, if there were enough complaints, I would hope that the team lead woud boot that character from the team.

If a teammate complained and I backed them up, and the team lead came back with ... say "Oh, he's a friend of mine. It's fine", then I would most likely immediately leave the team.

 

Other players are free to behave as they like as long as they aren't breaking the CoC.

Outside of that, we can state what we as players feel to be respectable conduct. You have expressed yours. I have expressed mine.

It doesn't appear that either of us will change our minds on our stances.

 

The game provides us with tools to use against players that we find to have issues that we would rather not game with/deal with during our gaming time when we are trying to have "fun".

For example, if I feel someone is behaving in a way that I have to boot them from a team, I may very well put them on ignore so that I can't see them sending tells to try to join teams that I'm recruiting for (at least until they spill out the otherside of the very short - in my opinion - ignore list).

The same could go for someone that is "steamrolling" content instead of playing as part of a team.

 

I'm sure there are those that don't care. I do. Other players to.

I think it is important in life to be respectful of other people.

I don't think it is respectful to join a team and then not play as part of the team because you would rather solo because being a teammate is boring.

That is how I see it.

 

 

Good for you. You have found what you like.

I have found that I do not like the end-game, but not simply because of the behavior/mind-set of L337 end-gamers.

 

I have 3 50's here. Last 50 dinged probably well over a year ago, but I don't keep track.

I am not going to get another 50. I'm level-locking/turning off XP at 49 if a character gets that far.

Most of the time, I level-lock.turn off XP at the level of power that I feel is rational to that character's conception and/or to avoid leveling past content that I want them to play before continuing to level or to have them available to play content at or around that level.

 

So there you go. We are looking at this from two different angles/viewpoints.

 

Of course, you support level 50's joining lower level content, not playing as part of the team, and steamrolling lower-level content because apparently you are that kind of gamer.

It is what you do. It is how you play. Therefore you support it.

 

 

makes no sense.

 

 

If you had been paying attention this thread, I thumbs down one of  your posts because I read it while reading other posts on this thread.

 

And, my reply was to the OP and what they are asking and not ot other people's posts.

At least come of the posts on communication I gave the thumbs up or thanks ... but ... if I remember correctly ... some of them might have said things that I disagreed with so I either didn't react to it or reacted to it negatively.

 

Yes. Communication is important if a teammate is acting in a way that someone on the team disagrees with for one reason or another.

That can be through /team channel or by /t to the team lead so that they can deal with the situation as they see fit.

 

 

lol.

I already do that.

Maybe you should pay more attention. Like maybe check my post count.

 

 

I'm not "demonizing" anyone.

You are being overly defensive because you support the kind of behavior that I find disrespectful.

I guess I hit a nerve - which was kind of the point.

 

Other people don't like the kind of behavior that is being discussed.

Just because people that like to play that way support it, doesn't mean that the 7 other players on the team appreciate that behavior.

 

Players that "lone wolf" - run off and do their own thing while they are on a team - should know that other players are on a team are on a team to be playing as a team and they aren't door sitters there to increase the mob-size for the level 50 that wants to steamroll the content.

 

In general, if you are on at team. It is respectful to stay with the team and not run off and do your own thing.

 

If you are level 50 and you can steam roll the content, maybe that player should be the one to ask the team lead in /team for them to steamroll the content so that not only the team lead, but all they team can decide on how they want to "enjoy" their game time. That way that team lead can make it clear to the team from the start that they expect.

So yeah. The 50 can communicate as well.

... and maybe if you are a level 50 on a team and you are bored with the content, you can quit and find something else to do that isn't boring.

 

 

 

 

 

 

By all means, let us pay heed to that giant pile of gabby-gook word salad from someone who by their own admission doesn’t play their level 50’s on what the correct way to play a level 50 is.

 

Please, rain down upon us your hidden secret knowledge, shower us with your continence based upon your lofty self appointed superiority. We all hold such platitudes in the highest regard, kiss elbow promise!

 

Yea but no. This is a “sandbox” game. People can all play and enjoy the game differently. There is no “right”, “correct,” or “wrong” way to play.

 

If you style clashes with others, then just don’t play with them. It’s fairly simple. But what nobody gets to do is lecture other people on how to play or have fun. And unless you name has “HC staff” next to it, than your opinion is just that - an opinion. Not a fact. Certainly not a law or rule. And you most certainly don’t get to pretend that you are the sole arbitrary authority on what is or is not correct.

 

Dont like someone? Don’t play with them. Go do your own thing with other people. No need to crow about it, no need to stand on your soapbox and address the ignorant masses on why your sole objective and style is the only correct one. 
 

Just put them on ignore, give them a 1 star to remind yourself, and press on with life. 

[Seed22]

CoH is weird. On one hand you’ll in these very forums say things like play your way and have fun. Then in the same breath have replies like in this thread trying to dictate how to play.

 

I miss when this community had sense. Never was a thing really on HC but it was on live.

 

I think since this game is pathetically easy and solved(and has been for 20 years) you all have run out of things to talk about, and instead make asinine and inflammatory post. 

Edited October 9 by Seed22

[Maelwys]

19 hours ago, Without_Pause said:

Because I essentially do them for TFs, and I see lone wolfs on them a lot. It wasn't even a thing for me until I saw others doing it. I would play a melee and kept having teammates interfere with what I was doing, see Fold Space, and it just felt better to take on mobs by myself. Note, I default to sticking to the team. I'm not going out on my own if I think the rest of the team can't handle it.

Quoting this bit because it's resonating with me.

I started out playing CoH as a break from a *very* grindy teamplay-and-loot-orientated MMoRPG where I'd completely burnt out.
A self-sufficient Scrapper was my first toon; and a self-sufficient Biform PB was my second. They were both very cathartic (I did eventually level up several support-orientated characters; but my Tankers, Defenders and Controllers probably still 2-boxed more than they teamed and even my Fire Blaster could solo on max difficulty pre-inventions. When Redside opened up I made a few MMs and Stalkers to experience the content and zone-wide PVP and then went back to heros again...)
I had a nice friendly SG and a large set of Coalition buddies and various Global Friends + Channel memberships to chat to and occasionally hang out with... but for the most part I'd only actively join teams if somebody else wanted help with something. I am simply not the type of person who actively seeks out other people either for assistance or out of loneliness. I like my own company and being able to hear myself think; and whilst I've since gotten married and had multiple kids it has just made me treasure my now-incredibly-rare "me time" even more.

Now PUGs? PUGs are glorious. But I'm there for the antics, not for the company. Witnessing the occasional exceptionally hilarious clustf*ck is good for the soul; and powering through it despite the odds has always felt appropriately heroic.

I also really really frelling hate any form of forced enemy movement. AoE Knockback was bad enough on live, but Fold Space on HC is absolute armpit. And unfortunately it seems to have turned into the modern day equivalent of corner-pulling (which IIRC had a similarly large number of zealotic proponents despite being consistently overshadowed by an PBAoE and an easily-accessible "jump" button) and many players appear to delight in always using it on cooldown (regardless of whether a decent Combat Teleport bind would have accomplished much the same thing but without the irritation...)  📢 🙉

[Without_Pause]

13 minutes ago, Maelwys said:

I also really really frelling hate any form of forced enemy movement. AoE Knockback was bad enough on live, but Fold Space on HC is absolute armpit. And unfortunately it seems to have turned into the modern day equivalent of corner-pulling (which IIRC had a similarly large number of zealotic proponents despite being consistently overshadowed by an PBAoE and an easily-accessible "jump" button) and many players appear to delight in always using it on cooldown (regardless of whether a decent Combat Teleport bind would have accomplished much the same thing but without the irritation...)  📢 🙉

The recent one for me was playing a Dark melee character and having someone repeatedly screw with Soul Drain. I can: remain with the team and do less damage, or go off on my own and Soul Drain to my heart's content. Yes, I could sit there like a good little Scrapper and wait, or the mob could be well on their way to being dead already.

[ZemX]

1 minute ago, Seed22 said:

CoH is weird. On one hand you’ll in these very forums say things like play your way and have fun. Then in the same breath have replies like in this thread trying to dictate how to play.

 

This has got to be one of the most tiresome repeated complaints on these forums.   Just stop.  Nobody is doing this.  Nobody actually believes that they, some random player, have the authority to tell you, another random player, literally how they must play.  If they say "you should go solo" they are just being concise and it IS just an opinion.  They do not need a fucking legal disclaimer stating that everything in their post is solely the opinion of the person writing it and that they don't have the actual literal authority to MAKE you go solo.  Stop being absurd (see... I just did it myself!  That's an opinion!  Please feel free to continue being absurd!)

 

The OP asked for opinions and they are getting opinions.  The only authority anyone has in game is the leader's star.  I can tell you not to lone wolf on MY team.  And then I can enforce that opinion if you ignore it.  And you can do the same on your own teams.  That's the extent of it.

[SeraphimKensai]

On 10/7/2024 at 12:27 PM, Krimson said:

It's most fun with a group of other lone wolves. 

I agree as then we have a race.

[Maelwys]

2 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

I agree as then we have a race.

 

Edited October 9 by Maelwys

[Andreah]

16 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

Good for you. You have found what you like.

I have found that I do not like the end-game, but not simply because of the behavior/mind-set of L337 end-gamers.

 

Exactly correct. If they are on my team, the team I started then they play by the rules I set. I'm never obnoxious about it in-game, however people here in forums may think I come across.

 

1 hour ago, Neiska said:

Dont like someone? Don’t play with them. Go do your own thing with other people. No need to crow about it, no need to stand on your soapbox and address the ignorant masses on why your sole objective and style is the only correct one. 

 

The way I don't play with them, on the team I created, recruited, and manage, is that I boot them off. A hard requirement for being a level 50 on my teams when we're doing content open to all levels is that you help carry the lowbies by staying with the main group. And when they're tough super-powerful 50's, they'll come back and help carry other people's new alts, too. 

 

You may say, oh I leveled myself up to 50 solo and have no obligation to carry anyone else's low level alt. You're right, go make your own team, you'll be booted from mine.

 

[Story Archer]

11 hours ago, ZemX said:

 

It doesn't matter what you think the purpose of your AT is.  If you're on a team that has agreed not to stealth objectives, you don't do it.  If you never join such teams with your Stalker, great.  It's never going to be a problem for you.  Presumably, the person who was complaining about this was talking about kill-most or kill-all teams, not speed runs.  Wouldn't make sense to complain about someone speeding on a speed run.

 

With a Ninjitsu Scrapper as my main, every PUG I join, if it hasn't been explicitly stated that it's a kill most/all, I always tell the leader (privately) that I have Stealth ability and can stealth any of the missions if they want to, just so that they know they have that bullet in their gun, but I let the leader make the call.

[Story Archer]

1 hour ago, Seed22 said:

CoH is weird. On one hand you’ll in these very forums say things like play your way and have fun. Then in the same breath have replies like in this thread trying to dictate how to play.

 

I think you might be missing the point there - it's sort of like our individual freedoms. You're free to do anything that makes you happy... right up until the point where you're infringing on someone else's freedom to do the same. There's no wrong way to have fun - UNLESS your fun is hurting other people's ability to have fun. When you make a choice to join a group, you're making a choice to give up some of your usual autonomy for the benefits of being in that group, and the great thing is that the very second you feel like that trade-off is no longer working for you, you can simply quit and find another.

[Lunar Ronin]

21 hours ago, Without_Pause said:

Because I essentially do them for TFs, and I see lone wolfs on them a lot. It wasn't even a thing for me until I saw others doing it. I would play a melee and kept having teammates interfere with what I was doing, see Fold Space, and it just felt better to take on mobs by myself. Note, I default to sticking to the team. I'm not going out on my own if I think the rest of the team can't handle it.

 

If I am the only Brute or Tanker on the team, I will stick with the team.  However, if I am playing a Stalker (I never play Scrapper but the same applies to them) or the second Brute or Tanker on the team, I will go off on my own if I think that the rest of the team can handle it.  Playing melee on teams and sticking with teams is detrimental to both melee players and the team in this day and age of crashless nukes and powers like Fold Space.  They don't need me, I don't need them, so it's better for everyone for melee players to go off on their own.  Melee play isn't interfered with by teammates, and missions tend to go faster.  Everyone gets XP, INF, drops, and badges.

Edited October 9 by Lunar Ronin

[Neiska]

28 minutes ago, Andreah said:

 

The way I don't play with them, on the team I created, recruited, and manage, is that I boot them off. A hard requirement for being a level 50 on my teams when we're doing content open to all levels is that you help carry the lowbies by staying with the main group. And when they're tough super-powerful 50's, they'll come back and help carry other people's new alts, too. 

 

You may say, oh I leveled myself up to 50 solo and have no obligation to carry anyone else's low level alt. You're right, go make your own team, you'll be booted from mine.

 

I agree. Booting is allowed and is one of the ways to play “with someone else.”

 

I can count on my fingers the number of times I’ve booted people. Most of the time it didn’t have anything to do with how they played, but what they said. They might have been rude and bossy, or something they said was a hot or sensitive issue that I don’t care to see in my personal leisure time.

 

The thing about booting is, there’s no rules for it. If you want to split hairs, you don’t even need a reason.

 

If you want to control how other people play, be the leader. But with that if someone doesn’t like how the leader leads, then people can leave or form their own teams. Someone who is too overbearing or controlling might find people leaving suddenly, perhaps even at the most inconvenient time. Especially if they are going for a badge or hard mode or something.

 

The “play nice with others” goes both ways. I’ve left toxic leaders before, and took no small amount of satisfaction in doing so. People aren’t obligated to do things “your way” even if you are the leader.

Edited October 9 by Neiska
Spelling

[Yomo Kimyata]

I will also say that it’s probably my favorite badge:

 

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Lone_Wolf_Badge

[ZacKing]

I don't mind it so long as it isn't adversely impacting the rest of the team.  I completely understand why people do it, especially after reading through the thread on Fold Space etiquette.   It seems like some can't grasp that others like fighting stuff, so grouping up in a big ball and nuking mobs isn't really fun for them.  I totally get why people want to go off on their own.