Civilians 2.0

[Greycat]

So, some time ago it was set up to where, on redside bank missions, you could target and kill the civilians. (Believe there's even a badge for doing so.) Given the majority of my villains aren't sociopaths, and/or are aware enough that "hey, if I happen to get caught, murdering all these people probably won't help my case," I'd love to find a way to either turn that off - or, better yet, have an either/or badge for NOT killing them. (Say, if you get within 100 feet of a bunch of civilians to scare them / chase them off, but don't attack, it counts. I don't know if that's trackable, though.)

 

Granted this would probably have to be individually trackable to keep someone from accidentally or intentionally keeping you from getting the badge - or you'd have to solo a lot of bank missions - but I'd *really* appreciate the option.

 

 

(Edit, since this APPARENTLY NEEDS MORE CLARIFICATION, the FIRST TWO paragraphs were dealing with bank missions/redside. The FOLLOWING one deals with BLUESIDE... thus the "Blueside" tag it was given to begin with. I have colored the redside suggestion red to make this EVEN MORE CLEAR.)

 

 

Blueside... we (sometimes) get a pittance of INF for assisting civilians - if they don't run off. I've generally been surprised we haven't gotten a badge or badges for this - this seems like something that would've had some sort of recognition early on. Having some for rescuing X number of civilians on the street - even tiered like some other badge sets - might be nice. (And could be reflected redside, yes, since people are getting mugged there, too.) Even having one or two for some specific groups (save 100 civilians from COT rituals = "Broke the Circle" or "Thorn in the side" or something, for instance) might be nice as well.

Edited October 30 by Greycat
Adjusting to make clear things even more clear.

[Luminara]

3 minutes ago, Greycat said:

if I happen to get caught, murdering all these people probably won't help my case

 

[Rudra]

The only civilians you rescue in the Safeguards are the ones found in the vault side mission (which grants the Security Expert badge for completing 5 of those side missions) and the one in the kidnapping mission (which thankfully grants no badge for either heroes rescuing the kidnappee or villains kidnapping the person because those sides royally suck). (The PPD in the jail side mission aren't civilians and also already have their own badge for being rescued, so they don't count.) Civilians on the street in the Safeguards are no more directly threatened by the NPC villains than they are in the Mayhems. There are no instances of there being a civilian on the street with villains standing by them threatening them. (Though I very much agree that the murder 1,000 civilians in the Mayhem was a terrible badge to add and I absolutely hate that I have to specifically run around murdering civilians to complete my badges. Not even my pets will attack the civilians even on Aggressive. So you specifically have to be trying to kill them to get the badge.)

[Greycat]

40 minutes ago, Rudra said:

The only civilians you rescue in the Safeguards

 

Going to stop right there, as re-reading what I posted, I wasn't that clear.

 

When I'm talking about *rescuing* civilians, I'm talking open-world on the street. Basically first two paragraphs = bank missions, last one, open world (muggings, etc.) 

 

I *do* want the option/ reward/ etc. for not being a mass murderer in the bank missions, though.

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, Greycat said:

 

Going to stop right there, as re-reading what I posted, I wasn't that clear.

 

When I'm talking about *rescuing* civilians, I'm talking open-world on the street. Basically first two paragraphs = bank missions, last one, open world (muggings, etc.) 

 

I *do* want the option/ reward/ etc. for not being a mass murderer in the bank missions, though.

Ah. My apologies. So the ones you see in Atlas Park et al. Got it.

[lemming]

4 hours ago, Greycat said:

on redside bank missions, you could target and kill the civilians. (Believe there's even a badge for doing so.)

Nah, they're just resting.

 

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Terminator_Badge

[Snarky]

13 hours ago, Greycat said:

So, some time ago it was set up to where, on redside bank missions, you could target and kill the civilians. (Believe there's even a badge for doing so.) Given the majority of my villains aren't sociopaths, and/or are aware enough that "hey, if I happen to get caught, murdering all these people probably won't help my case," I'd love to find a way to either turn that off - or, better yet, have an either/or badge for NOT killing them. (Say, if you get within 100 feet of a bunch of civilians to scare them / chase them off, but don't attack, it counts. I don't know if that's trackable, though.)

No.  Just... no.

[Vanden]

A badge for not killing civilians? Do you want any other prizes for basic decency, while we’re at it? 
 

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WantsAPrizeForBasicDecency

[Greycat]

3 hours ago, Vanden said:

A badge for not killing civilians? Do you want any other prizes for basic decency, while we’re at it?

 

 

Given you have to go *out of your way* to not kill them now...

[Snarky]

On 10/28/2024 at 12:25 PM, Greycat said:

So, some time ago it was set up to where, on redside bank missions, you could target and kill the civilians. (Believe there's even a badge for doing so.) Given the majority of my villains aren't sociopaths, and/or are aware enough that "hey, if I happen to get caught, murdering all these people probably won't help my case," I'd love to find a way to either turn that off - or, better yet, have an either/or badge for NOT killing them. (Say, if you get within 100 feet of a bunch of civilians to scare them / chase them off, but don't attack, it counts. I don't know if that's trackable, though.)

 

Granted this would probably have to be individually trackable to keep someone from accidentally or intentionally keeping you from getting the badge - or you'd have to solo a lot of bank missions - but I'd *really* appreciate the option.

 

Blueside... we (sometimes) get a pittance of INF for assisting civilians - if they don't run off. I've generally been surprised we haven't gotten a badge or badges for this - this seems like something that would've had some sort of recognition early on. Having some for rescuing X number of civilians on the street - even tiered like some other badge sets - might be nice. (And could be reflected redside, yes, since people are getting mugged there, too.) Even having one or two for some specific groups (save 100 civilians from COT rituals = "Broke the Circle" or "Thorn in the side" or something, for instance) might be nice as well.

Look, i get it.  You do not want to be a bad guy.  You do not want to do bad things.  You will not take the mission from Dmitri Krylov to kidnap civilians and deliver them to Vahzilok for parts as a distraction.  Okay.  But the badges in the VILLAIN bank robberies are for being….a villain. 

[Darkneblade]

Counter-suggestion : Allow villains to kill civilians when they are in Redzone if they are pure villain.

[Rudra]

Just now, Darkneblade said:

Counter-suggestion : Allow villains to kill civilians when they are in Redzone if they are pure villain.

Counter-counter-suggestion: Don't do that so when I see a civilian being threatened by the Vahzilok and go to save them, I don't flambe them instead. It's annoying enough avoiding murdering civilians in the Mayhems because they decided to flee past the enemies I just clicked to obliterate.

[biostem]

I wonder if they could implement a sort of mini-arc, (perhaps tied to the morality system), so one could be an "honorable" villain who doesn't commit acts of wanton destruction, or a more reckless one that doesn't care about collateral damage, and enable or disable killing civilians as needed...

[Greycat]

1 hour ago, Snarky said:

Look, i get it.  You do not want to be a bad guy.  You do not want to do bad things.  You will not take the mission from Dmitri Krylov to kidnap civilians and deliver them to Vahzilok for parts as a distraction.  Okay.  But the badges in the VILLAIN bank robberies are for being….a villain. 
 

 

"Villain" is not the same as "mass murderer" or "Psychopath." A person stealing money supposedly going to a charity in order to line their own bank account is a villain without so much as speaking slightly loudly to someone. There are many, many sorts of villainy that don't involve whipping out a machine gun and mowing down civilians.

 

You want to kill everything in sight? Go for it. My villains typically don't. And frankly, *given it takes extra effort thanks to prior decisions,* I'd like to see that recognized as well.

 

[Greycat]

1 hour ago, Darkneblade said:

Counter-suggestion : Allow villains to kill civilians when they are in Redzone if they are pure villain.

 

Again. "Villain," pure or otherwise, does not mean "mass murder."  And anything like this going in would probably be enough to move my last few redsiders out of redside.

[biostem]

38 minutes ago, Greycat said:

"Villain" is not the same as "mass murderer" or "Psychopath." A person stealing money supposedly going to a charity in order to line their own bank account is a villain without so much as speaking slightly loudly to someone. There are many, many sorts of villainy that don't involve whipping out a machine gun and mowing down civilians.

Not to derail things too much, but this highlights why I think allowing players to create villains was never a good idea - villains, (generally speaking), are proactive - THEY initiate the schemes and actions that make them, well, villains.  Heroes respond to those undertakings, so it makes sense that they wouldn't have much input into what they're running into.  Villains, OTOH, should be able to pick who they target, what their goals are, and what, if any, degree of collateral damage they are willing to inflict...

[Snarky]

46 minutes ago, Greycat said:

 

Again. "Villain," pure or otherwise, does not mean "mass murder."  And anything like this going in would probably be enough to move my last few redsiders out of redside.

[Rudra]

How do we get more players to play red side? Keeping @Snarky off the recruitment and onboarding teams seems like a good place to start.... 😶

[OEM61]

I have little to no interest in playing redside.  I spent a little time there back in the day to see what was what, but I never really enjoyed playing a villain.

That said, the idea of being able to toggle civvy targeting seems fair.  As far as badges for not killing civvies go, I would say that after making the choice to not target civvies and then undertaking one mission you could get a badge for it, but just one, and if you end up killing a civvy later then you would lose it.

I don't know if the game could take away a badge, though.  Maybe if it could flip them it might work...  Once you get the "I don't kill civvies" badge you get to keep it until such a time as you kill enough civvies to earn that badge so the old one transforms into the new one.

[Snarky]

7 hours ago, Rudra said:

How do we get more players to play red side? Keeping @Snarky off the recruitment and onboarding teams seems like a good place to start.... 😶

.... literally WTF?   Go, be a hero.  If you want to be a Villain.  Redside.  

 

I am against gentrifying Redside.  I do NOT want to recruit heroes for Redside.  

 

Here is a mission from Dmitri Krylov....

 

Bring citizens to Vahzilok surgeons

Briefing

So Dr. Vahzilok plans to come to Rogue Islands, eh? This bad for Krylov's business, but Krylov have plan. Great BIG plan...

Dr. Vahzilok is big tough villain in Paragon City that everyone knows, nyet? Well, if Dr. Vahzilok is too busy fighting heroes, he can't make visit to Rogue Islands! I say we set up Dr. Vahzilok for fall!

I know some Vahzilok surgeons in Paragon City who I worked with on some 'special experiments.' I will tell them you are coming to help them gather more 'raw materials!' When the Paragon City heroes find out about the kidnappings, they'll be after Dr. Vahzilok like fleas on a dog. Ha ha! Now go to Paragon City, kidnap some victims, and take them to the Vahzilok!

• Bring citizens to Vahzilok surgeons

Watch out for Longbow, Character. They have been very suspicious of who I have been talking to.

[Rudra]

1 minute ago, Snarky said:

7 hours ago, Rudra said:

How do we get more players to play red side? Keeping @Snarky off the recruitment and onboarding teams seems like a good place to start.... 😶

.... literally WTF?   Go, be a hero.  If you want to be a Villain.  Redside.  

 

I am against gentrifying Redside.  I do NOT want to recruit heroes for Redside.  

 

Here is a mission from Dmitri Krylov....

 

Bring citizens to Vahzilok surgeons

Briefing

So Dr. Vahzilok plans to come to Rogue Islands, eh? This bad for Krylov's business, but Krylov have plan. Great BIG plan...

Dr. Vahzilok is big tough villain in Paragon City that everyone knows, nyet? Well, if Dr. Vahzilok is too busy fighting heroes, he can't make visit to Rogue Islands! I say we set up Dr. Vahzilok for fall!

I know some Vahzilok surgeons in Paragon City who I worked with on some 'special experiments.' I will tell them you are coming to help them gather more 'raw materials!' When the Paragon City heroes find out about the kidnappings, they'll be after Dr. Vahzilok like fleas on a dog. Ha ha! Now go to Paragon City, kidnap some victims, and take them to the Vahzilok!

• Bring citizens to Vahzilok surgeons

Watch out for Longbow, Character. They have been very suspicious of who I have been talking to.

First, I was just having fun with that post. (Hence the face in it. Also, the business stages reference. What recruiting, onboarding, or offboarding teams or phases of employment are there red side?) Second, what is your point about Krylov and his mission? I do the Krylov arcs. I was even the person on these forums that told other players that they could do the Krylov Vahzilok mission without feeling bad about delivering those three people to the Vahzilok and why. The only red side content I don't do is Westin Phipps. So what is the point of your retort?

 

You seem to enjoy just plain being rude to others, but that doesn't mean you should automatically read rudeness in others' posts. Take a breath.

[Snarky]

5 minutes ago, Rudra said:

First, I was just having fun with that post. (Hence the face in it. Also, the business stages reference. What recruiting, onboarding, or offboarding teams or phases of employment are there red side?) Second, what is your point about Krylov and his mission? I do the Krylov arcs. I was even the person on these forums that told other players that they could do the Krylov Vahzilok mission without feeling bad about delivering those three people to the Vahzilok and why. The only red side content I don't do is Westin Phipps. So what is the point of your retort?

 

You seem to enjoy just plain being rude to others, but that doesn't mean you should automatically read rudeness in others' posts. Take a breath.

I am dead. Serious.  I do not give a crap.  

 

I do not care if you are joking, if you are serious, or if you are in the midst of a greater understanding of the multiverse.

 

This threads theme seems to be "Lets make Redside a place for boyscouts doing good deeds with badges and smores"  

 

I do not care if you defended Krylov.  He is a low level moron with shit methods.  I posted his mission details as an example of regular redside play.

 

You say rude.  I say "learn how to F-ing merge"  

 

and no.... I probably will not take a breath anytime soon...

 

 

[Rudra]

5 minutes ago, Snarky said:

and no.... I probably will not take a breath anytime soon...

Then do whatever it is vampires do to relax.

[Snarky]

14 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Then do whatever it is vampires do to relax.

[Ghost]

9 hours ago, Snarky said:

There are roughly 12 red side players, and you’re okay with one leaving?

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