Tankers/Brutes Should Have Fear Mez Protection

[Projector]

I don't know if it's me, or if there was a change in one of the last major patch updates, but for the last several months it seems as though Tanks/Brutes get Terrified way more easily than they did before. I can't verify that's the case other than anecdotally, as it could be that I'm just playing content now where fear is a way more commonly used mechanic by enemy groups, but even if it's always been this way, my point doesn't change: Tankers should have fear protection.

I don't really understand why the ATs that are supposed to be able to get into the action, take the brunt of the blows for their team, and stand on the front line, are just as easily scared by enemy attacks as the rest of the team they are trying to protect.

I could understand it from the perspective of there being a threat so big/terrifying that even the Tanker gets scared sometimes, but then why do powers like "Increase Density" break them free? Suddenly I'm not as afraid of a giant Hamidon because I am more density is higher? Or Why can a random enemy fear me with Terrify, but not be able to put me to sleep with Mass Hypnosis if it's a they are both mental tricks?

The logic isn't really consistent, and the mechanic doesn't really add any sort of appreciated difficulty for tanking, in my opinion, mostly it's just really annoying that there's a random form of mez that affects Tankers like it does everyone else and it feels disruptive in a way that is frustrating far more frustrating than it is interesting, because, again, why I am being feared feels entirely arbitrary and like it's just meant to give Melee armors a weakness just for the sake of having a weakness.

Every time I've talked about this with other players who either main or have experience with melee toons seem to share this feeling. Especially since most mechanics that increase difficulty seem to exclusively punish melee range characters (which, unfortunately, seems to be a common trend in MMOs):
 

• Marauder's Nova Fist
• Anti-Matter's Atomic Blast
• Sentinel's white regen aura
• Avatar of Hamidon's end sapping
• Starred LGTF Rikti Assault Suit Neural Fields
• Starred ITF crystal explosions
• Starred Romulus Void Judgement
• Minds of Mayhem World of Anguish (While this one impacts the whole league, melee players specifically are unable to attack unless the AV is moved. You have a 7-second window between Anguish spawns to attack otherwise, while Ranged toons just move slightly to the side and can keep attacking for free.)

To also have a form of cc that is all but guaranteed to affect melee characters of any armor set when they are supposed to be the ones that are able to resist cc in general just feels bad to play. (While we're at it, updating Plasma Shield to be on par with other mez resist toggles would be cool, too, but I'll take what I can get!)

Can we please get some Fear protection in the Mezz protection toggles in the Melee sets at the same Mag protection level as other major forms of mez? 

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, Projector said:

Can we please get some Fear protection in the Mezz protection toggles in the Melee sets at the same Mag protection level as other major forms of mez? 

You already can, you just have to use the sets that have it. Dark Armor's Obsidian Shield, Shield Defense's Active Defense, and Willpower's Indomitable Will all grant Mag 12.975 protection against fear effects.

 

Built in fear protection in armor sets has always been a question of choosing the armor set that grants it.

[Projector]

19 minutes ago, Rudra said:

You already can, you just have to use the sets that have it. Dark Armor's Obsidian Shield, Shield Defense's Active Defense, and Willpower's Indomitable Will all grant Mag 12.975 protection against fear effects.

 

Built in fear protection in armor sets has always been a question of choosing the armor set that grants it.

Okay? My ask is that all armor sets grant it, not some.

No specific reason to treat it any different from hold, stun, or sleep, imo, other than an arbitrary weak point.

[Rudra]

15 minutes ago, Projector said:

Okay? My ask is that all armor sets grant it, not some.

No specific reason to treat it any different from hold, stun, or sleep, imo, other than an arbitrary weak point.

You're probably not going to get that for the same reason why the mez protection powers across all the sets grant different protections. Some have KB protection in those powers, others don't. Some have END drain protection in those powers, others don't. Some have slow resist in those powers, others don't. And some have fear protection in those powers, and others don't. Each armor set has its own array of defenses and weaknesses.

 

Edit: Anyway, why the big deal over fear? It is a mez that lets you keep fighting. Each time you are attacked, you get to make an attack in return. It doesn't stop you, just slows you down. (Edit again: And it doesn't de-toggle you either.)

 

Edited November 15 by Rudra

[TygerDarkstorm]

39 minutes ago, Projector said:

Okay? My ask is that all armor sets grant it, not some.

No specific reason to treat it any different from hold, stun, or sleep, imo, other than an arbitrary weak point.

It's bad enough that everything has been proliferated everywhere, blurring AT lines, let's not make all armor sets standardized, please. As a player, you should be having to make conscious decisions about why you want to play certain sets. Don't want to get feared? Choose an armor set with that baked in. Want to play Dark or Fire Armor? Then you get no KB protection and need to build for that.

 

I realize devs get final say in these matters, but please no to taking away more reasons to make a conscious decision about your character. This game is already pretty easy, we don't need to make it mindless.

[arcane]

Every armor set has holes, whether it be no Fear protection, no KB protection, no Confuse protection, no Psionic resistance, etc etc. It’s been this way for ever. Not seeing the need for a change.

[megaericzero]

I'd imagine it's on purpose, as others have touched on.

 

Fiery Aura is fantastic at heat resistance; not so much cold.

Vice-versa for Ice Armor.

 

Invulnerability caps smashing/lethal easy but has a big psi hole.

Willpower has great psionic mitigation and scaling regeneration but middling raw resist/defense numbers otherwise.

 

And some sets have mez protection that others don't.

The only catch-all for melee mez protection is disorient, hold, sleep, immobilize.

 

It's important to keep in mind the whole armor set, as the ones that have less protections probably have higher raw numbers or some other tools that the sets with fear/KB/confuse protection don't.

 

EDIT: If it's renewed mobs that this is coming up with, it could be the endless cat-and-mouse/arms-race of game development.

 

One day, game devs wake up and go "hey, maybe some classes shouldn't be able to shrug off mez completely. Add more of the ones they don't always have protection to!" Then the meta shifts to incorporate fear protection and they go "okay make the knockback so high it's effectively unresistible." Then the community builds around capped defenses and the devs go "make auto-hit attacks." And we go in circles.

(I don't know that that's necessarily the case here but figured it was worth bringing up.)

Edited November 15 by megaericzero

[Luminara]

3 hours ago, Projector said:

I don't really understand why the ATs that are supposed to be able to get into the action, take the brunt of the blows for their team, and stand on the front line, are just as easily scared by enemy attacks as the rest of the team they are trying to protect.

Fear, Confuse, Taunt and Placate are all "soft" controls with limited protection available for any archetype.  Those controls, and restricted access to protection from them, exist specifically to create risk, allow NPCs to be more than bowling pins and give purpose to teaming and teammates (Shadow Fall, Clear Mind, Enforced Morale, Antidote, Clarity, Thaw, Vengeance (Leadership pool), Injection (Medicine pool) and Experimental Injection (Experimentation pool) all provide Fear protection).

 

You can't be immune to everything, all of the time, solo.  Not in this game.  You can team up with others and be immune to everything, all of the time.  That's what makes it an MMORPG.

Edited November 15 by Luminara

[Riverdusk]

Thinking you might have noticed it more recently due to Halloween mobs?  Probably the only time I've ever even noticed it was during trick or treat teams if I'm even remembering correctly.  It is a pretty rare effect for the most part.

 

 

 

 

[biostem]

The interesting thing about fear effects, besides their relative rarity, is that they don't drop your toggles, nor do they prevent you from retaliating if you get attacked.  They merely prevent you from initiating attacks.  The enemies will be attacking you, so just counter-attack when able.  Some sets having holes is fine...

[Super Atom]

 

👍

[biostem]

13 minutes ago, Super Atom said:

Well, IIRC, that only provides resistance, so it only reduces the duration...

[Spaghetti Betty]

I think this might be a case of anecdotal bias! I too agree that it's not a big deal and actually quite interesting that some armor sets grant protections others don't and vice versa. Why exactly does Indomitable Will grant Repel protection?

 

The bias itself definitely comes from how much of the Fear effect was injected into Hard Mode LGTF. It's everywhere. The mobs spam it and getting caught in a Nullification Field will also Fear you. Quite frankly, it walks the line between interesting and annoying, since even armors that do grant Fear protection don't grant enough to mitigate how intensely it's layered onto the team. But I think that's where you're feeling it the most!

 

Also, it would ruin the challenge of some of my AE mobs just a smidge!

Edited November 15 by Spaghetti Betty

[Rudra]

8 minutes ago, biostem said:

Well, IIRC, that only provides resistance, so it only reduces the duration...

Correct. Tactics only provides protection against confuses. It provides resistance against fears.

Edit: https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=pool.leadership.tactics&at=tanker

 

Edited November 15 by Rudra

[biostem]

6 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Correct.

Unless I'm misreading things, it *does* appear that Enforced Morale from Pain Domination, provides actual protection against fear, though:  https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=defender_buff.pain_domination.enforced_morale&at=defender

[megaericzero]

29 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Correct. Tactics only provides protection against confuses. It provides resistance against fears.

Edit: https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=pool.leadership.tactics&at=tanker

 

Unrelated but I'm gonna shout it into the void again: can we please fix power effect short-listings to distinguish protection when it's protection?

(Not quoting to respond to you, Rudra; just to show the tangential relation.)

[Rudra]

32 minutes ago, biostem said:

Unless I'm misreading things, it *does* appear that Enforced Morale from Pain Domination, provides actual protection against fear, though:  https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=defender_buff.pain_domination.enforced_morale&at=defender

Yep, so does Clear Mind, Shadow Fall, and other Corruptor, Defender, Controller and Mastermind buff powers. Teaming is beneficial. If someone wants to run solo, like me, then it is up to us to learn our character's weaknesses and take measures to protect ourselves.

 

Edited November 15 by Rudra
Edited to add "and Mastermind". And again to change slashes to commas with spaces.

[Super Atom]

1 hour ago, biostem said:

Well, IIRC, that only provides resistance, so it only reduces the duration...

 

Well yeah it says it right on the picture i posted

[Snarky]

4 hours ago, Projector said:

Okay? My ask is that all armor sets grant it, not some.

No specific reason to treat it any different from hold, stun, or sleep, imo, other than an arbitrary weak point.

Oh, and since we are asking for things that should go across all Armor Sets can all Armor have good KB Protection.  You know.  Because...

[Ukase]

One of these days, this sub-forum will allow posts by players, with no replies from other players. At least, that's my dream. 

The OP makes a suggestion, and then others chime in about why it should or shouldn't change/occur. I'm not real clear on why we step in here and give our opinions that support or reject someone else's suggestions. I'm just as guilty as the next person, but it doesn't make sense. 

No matter how much logic is used, in more than a few cases, there's got to be some cases where a decent idea is tossed out because of negative responses, without getting any actual consideration by the people in a position to actually make the changes. 

Unfortunately, I think the nay-sayers make some interesting points. The idea that Fire and Dark armor don't have KB protection...yeah, that's a thing. Easily remedied, though. Well, sometimes easily remedied. Using a number of slots to increase kb protection to over 12...that's not so easy all the time. 

But there is no enhancement I'm aware of that protects against Fear. Maybe that could be a new d-sync? How many millions might that cost? 
Just a thought there. 

If I had my way, I'd give Protector the "I-win" button 'cause he's such a good guy. Have you seen his YouTube videos? He's not Logan Paul or anything, but that content! 



 

[biostem]

36 minutes ago, Ukase said:

One of these days, this sub-forum will allow posts by players, with no replies from other players. At least, that's my dream. 

Then just open notepad and type messages out to yourself.  If you aren't interested in interacting with others, be they positive or negative, then don't post in an online forum...

 

37 minutes ago, Ukase said:

No matter how much logic is used, in more than a few cases, there's got to be some cases where a decent idea is tossed out because of negative responses, without getting any actual consideration by the people in a position to actually make the changes. 

We truly don't know what the devs do or do not implement based solely upon people posting in these forums.  You are also putting forth a false premise;  IMO, those suggestions that are put forth, that are actually fleshed out, and by people with a decent enough understanding of the game to know what is or is not feasible, are never met with the kind of utter contempt or negativity you described.  Instead, it's the kind of ill-defined ideas, or ones not in line with the style/previous content found in-game.

 

 

[Rudra]

52 minutes ago, Ukase said:

One of these days, this sub-forum will allow posts by players, with no replies from other players.

Considering how often suggestions made would fundamentally change the game, even to the point of driving players like me away from the game, I think player feedback on player suggestions is a fair thing to allow.

[Ukase]

16 minutes ago, biostem said:

If you aren't interested in interacting with others, be they positive or negative, then don't post in an online forum...

I have zero problem interacting with others. But I don't think your opinion or mine is relevant when it comes to the suggestions or feedback of other players. Context matters. 

If the idea reeks, I'm sure our dev team doesn't need us to tell them that. Maybe they do. It's just my feedback that we shouldn't give feedback. Because that leads to what we have here. You give feedback. I give feedback on feedback in general. I don't see any positives in giving folks a thumbs down, unless they're asking for reasons why we couldn't have something. 

 

16 minutes ago, biostem said:

or ones not in line with the style/previous content found in-game.

Changes do not necessarily need to be in line with the style/previous content found in-game. 
 

Edited November 16 by Ukase
editing

[arcane]

59 minutes ago, Ukase said:

I'm not real clear on why we step in here and give our opinions that support or reject someone else's suggestions.


 

It’s a forum…

[biostem]

4 minutes ago, Ukase said:

I don't think your opinion or mine is relevant when it comes to the suggestions or feedback of other players.

They actually do.  A lot.  The Suggestions subforum isn't there for people to just vomit up whatever comes to mind;  Critical feedback is necessary to coach what kinds of suggestions are possible and which ones are just "pie in the sky".

 

5 minutes ago, Ukase said:

Changes do not necessarily need to be in line with the style/previous content found in-game. 

They should.  If you don't want something "in the spirit" or CoH, then you're posting in the wrong place.  *Every* suggestion should be made with "How does this fit into CoH" as a cornerstone.