Looking for a Bio tank build that is sturdy enough to run all content in Offensive stance

[garvisdol73]

I've built a number of characters including tanks and including bio armor, but I can't seem to wrap my head around building bio for tanks.

 

I haven't decided which secondary I want -- probably dark or battle axe.  But that part I can deal with and adapt from another build as needed.

 

Could anyone share their super sturdy, Offensive mode bio tanks with me?

 

Kind thanks in advance.

[Xandyr]

Dark would be a good pairing if you just want another heal. The -To Hit would also help out your defenses. Can't comment on BA as I've not played it. You should be able to have soft capped F/C/E/NE Defenses while in Offensive. Packing in as much recharge, regardless of your secondary, would be benficial.

 Zect is the expert on all things, and on all builds. Perhaps reach out to him.

 

- X

[Maelwys]

For showing some numbers I'll link this:

as well as this for an up-to-date build:

...but to answer your question: this will really depend on exactly what "sturdy enough" means for you and what secondary powersets you're willing to use.

It's rather easy for BIO to cap S/L resistance and softcap F/C/E/N Defence; even in Offensive mode. Plus lots of Regeneration, Recovery and Absorb.
However it's much trickier to cap the other resistances (with the possible exception of Toxic) and S/L or Melee Defense.

If you choose an offensive powerset with a +Defense move like Broadsword, Staff, Titan Weapons or Martial Arts then it gives you far more wiggle room.
However many people either hate the animations/visuals/etc on some of those; or don't want them due to character concept.
 

Edited December 26, 2024 by Maelwys

[Auroxis]

You can see my Bio/Battle Axe build in action here, it's DPS focused but has well enough defenses for most content. Bio gets a lot of its tankiness from uptime on its self buffs: 

 

Edited December 26, 2024 by Auroxis

[Maelwys]

2 minutes ago, Auroxis said:

bio/ba

TBF if the OP's goal wasn't "super sturdy" but "high damage", I'd recommend Bio/BA in a heartbeat.
BattleAxe's primary drawback is the exceedingly high endurance consumption; but Bio tankers tend to sit at the Recovery Hardcap.
(e.g. Just build for decent levels of uptime on DNA Siphon + Parasitic Aura and Procbomb everything. Maps melt...)
 

[Auroxis]

Just keep in mind that even on 4-star content people don't lean into building towards def/res caps because of Barrier.

[Maelwys]

18 minutes ago, Auroxis said:

Just keep in mind that even on 4-star content people don't lean into building towards def/res caps because of Barrier.

Assuming you're always running premades alternating Barrier/Clarion? Sure.
Often the TauntBot on those teams won't even have to turn their armor toggles on.
However a Soloist (or PUGer) with a more traditional view of a Tanker may well want as much cushioning between them and oral carpetburns as possible.

Since the OP specifically requested "super sturdy, Offensive mode bio tanks", I suspect in this case it's More Defense > More Dakka + let the 2nd build handle the 4-star stuff...
 

Edited December 26, 2024 by Maelwys

[Sovera]

Depends if you mean for soloing or what. Bio/Ice would allow Ice to patch Bio's weaknesses and while Bio pumps Ice's damage.

[Hjarki]

This is my Bio/Stone/Psi:

Hardened Carapace (Aegis R, R/E, R/E/R, +psi; Steadfast Protection +def)
Inexhaustible (Panacea +health/end)
Environmental Modification (LotG +recharge; Reactive Defenses D, +resist; Shield Wall D, +resist)
Ablative Carapace (Preventative Medicine full set)
Evolving Armor (Unbreakable Constraint R, R/E, R/E/R, +hp)
DNA Siphon (Eradication A/R, A/D/R, proc; Preventative Medicine H, H/R, H/R/E)
Genetic Contamination (Eradication D, A/R, proc; Superior Gauntleted Fist A/D, D/R, proc)

 

Stone Fist (Superior Might of the Tanker full set)
Stone Mallet (D-Sync Empowerment+3 A/D; Damage+5; Touch of Death proc; Gladiator's Strike proc; Perfect Zinger proc; Force Feedback proc)
Heavy Mallet (Superior Gauntleted Fist A/D/R, D/E/R, A/D/E/R; Gladiator's Strike D/R, proc; Force Feedback proc)
Taunt (Mocking Beratement full set)
Fault (Absolute Amazement all but proc; Force Feedback proc)
Tremor (Armageddon all but D; Force Feedback proc)
Seismic Smash (Hecatomb all but D; Unbreakable Constraint proc)

 

Boxing
Toughness (Gladiator's Armor R, R/E, R/E/R, +def)
Weave (LotG D, +recharge)
 

Combat Jumping (LotG +recharge)
 

Maneuvers (LotG +recharge)
Assault (EndRed)
 

Stealth (LotG +recharge)
 

Dominate (Neuronic Shutdown A/E, A/R)
Harmonic Mind (Power Transfer +heal)
 

Health (Miracle +recovery; Numina's Convalescence +Regen/Recovery)
Stamina (Performance Shifter +recovery)

 

It's designed to hard-cap S/L (with at least one enemy in melee range) while Incarnate soft-capping E/N/F/C in Defensive (which obviously means well exceeding the normal soft-cap in Offensive). A basic rotation of Fist -> Stone Mallet -> Fist -> Heavy Mallet with Seismic Smash thrown whenever it recharges does decent single target damage. AE damage is weaker since I use Fault for CC and DNA Siphon for healing.

 

Due to the Mag 4 Hold in the ST rotation and the self-stacking Disorient from Fault, enemies can rarely strike back all that effectively (at least in melee range). Psi attacks are a weakness. From a damage perspective, the major hurdle would be that if no one else on your team brings Achilles Heel and FotG, you don't either.

[Seed22]

On 12/26/2024 at 2:41 PM, Maelwys said:

Assuming you're always running premades alternating Barrier/Clarion? Sure.
Often the TauntBot on those teams won't even have to turn their armor toggles on.
However a Soloist (or PUGer) with a more traditional view of a Tanker may well want as much cushioning between them and oral carpetburns as possible.

Since the OP specifically requested "super sturdy, Offensive mode bio tanks", I suspect in this case it's More Defense > More Dakka + let the 2nd build handle the 4-star stuff...
 

Defense doesn’t benefit Bio nearly as much as this  defense oriented forums think it does. Remember, Bio has NO DDR.

 

This means its’ defense will be debuffed to all hell in nanoseconds and you’ll fold instantly. Defense should be an afterthought for Bio after pumping recharge, regen and Max HP(not necessarily in that order. Personally start with Max HP and Recharge) for your survival CD’s.

 

Every build prioritizing defense will and does die constantly in actually difficult content if they’re not life supporting off team buffs and more importantly a whole tray of T3 purp insp.

Edited Thursday at 01:34 PM by Seed22

[Maelwys]

3 hours ago, Seed22 said:

Bio has NO DDR.

 

True.

 

Quote

This means its’ defense will be debuffed to all hell in nanoseconds and you’ll fold instantly.

 

Not quite True.

 

Quote

Every build prioritizing defense will and does die constantly in actually difficult content if they’re not life supporting off team buffs and more importantly a whole tray of T3 purp insp.

 

Pure B*llocks.

 

Even if we ignore the fact that the minimum defense limit is not 0% but -100% (and so any Defense above -45% will directly contribute to your survivability) ... how many of this game's enemy groups inflict noteworthy Defense Debuffage outside of Lethal typed damage which a Bio Tanker can just ignore anyway (due to hardcapped S/L Damage Resistance plus all it's Absorb/Regeneration Clickies)...?

 

Prioritising attaining an extra layer of useful damage mitigation which applies in the vast majority of PVE content is a perfectly valid way to build.

 

That said, I definitely agree that if softcapped defense is your ONLY layer of damage mitigation then you can occasionally encounter "kryptonite scenarios".

 

In my posts further up this thread I linked a few discussions that break down my own "sturdy-ish" Bio Tanker's build. And they specifically call out Bio's lack of DDR and note that one very effective counter to this is to be able to "turtle up" and stack multiple copies of Parry/Guarded Spin/etc at will. Because even at the aggro limit and without noteworthy DDR, it's extremely unlikely that there will ever be a sufficiently high number of incoming -Def effects to cause Cascading Defense Failure if you can maintain a constant buffer of 20-30% Defense over and above the Softcap.

 

 

(Also FWIW the post you're quoting was actually using the word "Defense" as an alliterative synonym for "Mitigation"- as in DEFENSE VS OFFENSE - rather than using it to refer to the specific in game character property that lends itself to Typed or Positional softcapping...) 😉

[Seed22]

1 hour ago, Maelwys said:

 

True.

 

 

Not quite True.

 

 

Pure B*llocks.

 

Even if we ignore the fact that the minimum defense limit is not 0% but -100% (and so any Defense above -45% will directly contribute to your survivability) ... how many of this game's enemy groups inflict noteworthy Defense Debuffage outside of Lethal typed damage which a Bio Tanker can just ignore anyway (due to hardcapped S/L Damage Resistance plus all it's Absorb/Regeneration Clickies)...?

 

Prioritising attaining an extra layer of useful damage mitigation which applies in the vast majority of PVE content is a perfectly valid way to build.

 

That said, I definitely agree that if softcapped defense is your ONLY layer of damage mitigation then you can occasionally encounter "kryptonite scenarios".

 

In my posts further up this thread I linked a few discussions that break down my own "sturdy-ish" Bio Tanker's build. And they specifically call out Bio's lack of DDR and note that one very effective counter to this is to be able to "turtle up" and stack multiple copies of Parry/Guarded Spin/etc at will. Because even at the aggro limit and without noteworthy DDR, it's extremely unlikely that there will ever be a sufficiently high number of incoming -Def effects to cause Cascading Defense Failure if you can maintain a constant buffer of 20-30% Defense over and above the Softcap.

 

 

(Also FWIW the post you're quoting was actually using the word "Defense" as an alliterative synonym for "Mitigation"- as in DEFENSE VS OFFENSE - rather than using it to refer to the specific in game character property that lends itself to Typed or Positional softcapping...) 😉

I usually work off of the best builders in the game’s knowledge of the set plus my own experiences. Here’s why they and I say chasing def is not a great use of your slots:
 

In any team at endgame, you will be well over defense cap and res due to barrier cycling. In solo, literally most incarnate mobs shred defense. 
 

You should prioritize:

Max HP

Recharge

Regen(via Max HP capping since regen scales with this)

Some smattering of defense.

 

You can turtle up, which is nice and dandy and all till 4*. Then that holds up a lot less and you’ll be defaulting to barriers for protection, or probably even incarnate mobs. All it takes is a few -DEF hits and you’re on your way to pain town. The clicky absorbs help, hence my emphasis on Recharge. But it’s not the absorb that’s the star of the show here, it’s the residual regen in my experience at endgame. 
 

That absorb is getting chewed up in an instant if you let barrier slip. This is of course for true endgame content like iTrials and 4*. 
 

Building for defense compromises on what Bio ACTUALLY needs, which is what I listed, plus is a waste thanks to support and barriers, which will be in abundance.

 

You CAN do it, just like I can skip hasten on every build. To some it’s right, but for minmaxing, if that’s the goal here, it’s ill advised.

Edited Thursday at 07:06 PM by Seed22

[Maelwys]

1 hour ago, Seed22 said:

This is of course for true endgame content like iTrials and 4*. 

I suspected that this content was what you were referring to.

However @Auroxis already brought up hardmode 4* content in post #6:
"Just keep in mind that even on 4-star content people don't lean into building towards def/res caps because of Barrier."
And my answer now is the same as then: "let the 2nd build handle the 4-star stuff..."

Building for minimal clear times on 4-Star content (with constant buff saturation via competent teammates and T3/4 Destiny Incarnate rotation) is completely different from building for "super sturdiness" on regular PVE content when you mostly solo or PUG. There is no point having one single build to cover both scenarios.

If there is no need to build for other types of mitigation then by all means chase Maximum HP and as much Global Recharge as you can shake your Razer Tartarus at.

However in this particular thread (as I'm surprised I *still* need to point out) the OP is specifically requesting builds for "super sturdy, Offensive mode bio tanks"... which I very much doubt includes builds that are designed with the expectation of gaining the majority of their "super sturdiness" from external teammate buffs. Regardless of whether or not they always run with a competent premade and have someone verbally precalling the activation of those buffs every 30 seconds on Discord.
 

Edited Thursday at 08:24 PM by Maelwys

[Auroxis]

I get it @Maelwys, but i also linked to a showcase of the build clearing a +4x8 mission with vengeance mobs and an EB with defensive clickies to spare, so it's not like i didn't take tanking into consideration.

[Maelwys]

1 minute ago, Auroxis said:

I get it @Maelwys, but i also linked to a showcase of the build clearing a +4x8 mission with vengeance mobs and an EB with defensive clickies to spare, so it's not like i didn't take tanking into consideration.

This one?
 

On 11/12/2024 at 10:44 PM, Auroxis said:

The other day I discovered Adrenal Booster from Experimentation has really good values on Tanker so I decided to give it a go on the test server:

 

Bio/Axe Tanker

 

Pylon - 81s
+0x8 w/ Bosses - 211s
+4x8 w/ Bosses - 300s

 

 

Tanker (Bio Armor - Battle Axe).mbd 43.16 kB · 31 downloads

Tanker (Bio Armor - Battle Axe).mbd 43.14 kB · 22 downloads

Aside from the Mids builds themselves; all I can currently see there is a few Pylon times and a youtube video of a runthrough of Amra's AE Clearspeed benchmark mission (which makes sense, since it's within Amra's ePeen measuring Benchmarking Leaderboard thread).

Granted , that mission is technically a +4x8 mission, but isn't regular PVE content and to be honest the post reads as more "look how fast the build can clear things" than "this is how super sturdy it is".

And whilst yes - some may claim that Offense is the best Defense; more than a few /Regen Scrappers over the years might beg to differ.



I'm sleep deprived and loaded with antivirals so it's possible I'm being a tad more thickheaded and prickly than usual here - so I just want to make it perfectly clear that I do recognise that the builds that you linked here are GOOD and that the points being made about optimization for specific types of endgame content are USEFUL... however I'm just not sure that they quite match what the OP is looking for here (although the OP appears to have not responded now for over a week... so that may be a moot point!)

[Hjarki]

1 hour ago, Seed22 said:

You should prioritize:

Max HP

Recharge

Regen(via Max HP capping since regen scales with this)

Some smattering of defense.

While accurate in the abstract, this is not a very useful list in the specific.

 

For example, I'd never prioritize Max HP on a Bio Tanker because you can't. 

 

The general method for optimization is to create a cost function that relates the value of various attributes. So you might write 1.7a + 1.2b + 2.9c + 3.2d = optimization parameter. Those weights let you counter-balance the actual impacts rather than simply saying d > a.

 

So let's consider Bio vs. Invulnerability. On an Invulnerability Tanker, I'd almost certainly slot Dull Pain with Preventative Medicine. On a Bio Tanker, I'd rarely ever add a slot to Inexhaustible. While I'd like to maximize Max HP on every Tanker, the reality is that Inexhaustible doesn't return enough value to justify slotting while Dull Pain (about 4 times more effective) does.

 

So when you say to prioritize Max HP on a Bio Tanker, my response is: you can't, so don't bother. The Accolades and Unbreakable Constraint unique that every build takes will be the lion's share of your Max HP because Bio is only marginally better than Super Reflexes at buffing Max HP.

 

Likewise, when you say to prioritize Regen, I'm not going to slot the pair of +regen uniques (or, as noted above, Inexhaustible) because the return on investment for those slots is so small. On the other hand, I'm almost certainly going to slot Ablative Carapace and DNA Siphon because the return is very large for my investment there. But it's not like I'm going to make some sort of radical compromise that hurts my build. I'll go to ID levels using sets that otherwise improve my build.

 

When I look at Bio armor, I'm not inventing a priority list based on what I wish it provided but based on what it - and the various sets - actually provide. So my build goals are more along the lines of reaching F/C/E/N soft-cap (normally just a byproduct of slotting LotG mules and pushing Environmental Modification to ED) and S/L hard-cap (not all that hard but still requires some effort). I'm not thinking about Max HP or Regen at all because those are just simply byproducts of slotting powers in a fairly normal way. I'm not thinking about recharge all that much because most builds land in the 80% - 110% range unless you're really trying to push them for some reason - and going out of that range normally requires some serious compromises.

 

Ultimately, I think the key is to not try to force a build to be something it's not. The almost inevitable result is highly un-optimized build where you sacrifice all sorts of critical elements in single-minded pursuit of something you probably didn't need in the first place.

[WuTang]

I cobbled this together... I'm working on a Bio/BA Tanker as well....just my BA/Bio Brute got in the way.

 

I don't really like it yet, but I think it would work for most anything.... I'm still very new to Tanker builds.

 

 

Tanker (Bio Armor - Battle Axe).mbd

[Sovera]

Bringing up four star difficulty to a player who is asking for help with their build seems superfluous to me. Anyone doing four star content is not a step ahead of the regular players but a whole building worth of steps. That's specialized content akin to running WoW raids back in the day when there were no addons to guide every step of the encounter.

[Seed22]

1 hour ago, Sovera said:

Bringing up four star difficulty to a player who is asking for help with their build seems superfluous to me. Anyone doing four star content is not a step ahead of the regular players but a whole building worth of steps. That's specialized content akin to running WoW raids back in the day when there were no addons to guide every step of the encounter.

It’s not even in the same quantum time zone or omniverse as old school WoW raiding. 4* is very VERY tame in difficulty. To the point where you can be inebriated and run it damn near flawlessly (done so when it came out. Barrier cycling is the best! 😀) 

 

WoW raiding has in depth mechanics. 4*  has *checks notes* standing in 4 corners and DPSing some adds sometimes. 

 

I just used it as a loose example of what a super survivable build would be used for as that’s the only content where I could understand one thinking about going all in on defense for(they’d be wrong to do so for that too but at least I could follow the logic)

 

But the core principle still applies; Defense on a non defense based armor with no DDR is not how you build Bio. You can kind of look at it and tell that’s not how it’s supposed to go. 
 

It’s a hybrid regen based armor with a smattering of other bits like res and a tidge of defense. Lean into its’ strengths is all I’m saying, OP.

[WuTang]

On 1/4/2025 at 5:47 AM, Seed22 said:

It’s not even in the same quantum time zone or omniverse as old school WoW raiding. 4* is very VERY tame in difficulty. To the point where you can be inebriated and run it damn near flawlessly (done so when it came out. Barrier cycling is the best! 😀) 

 

WoW raiding has in depth mechanics. 4*  has *checks notes* standing in 4 corners and DPSing some adds sometimes. 

 

I just used it as a loose example of what a super survivable build would be used for as that’s the only content where I could understand one thinking about going all in on defense for(they’d be wrong to do so for that too but at least I could follow the logic)

 

But the core principle still applies; Defense on a non defense based armor with no DDR is not how you build Bio. You can kind of look at it and tell that’s not how it’s supposed to go. 
 

It’s a hybrid regen based armor with a smattering of other bits like res and a tidge of defense. Lean into its’ strengths is all I’m saying, OP.

 

I have to agree here. I've recently been shown the errors of my way concerning Bio. My lesson came to me on my Sav/Bio Brute. My original build had fairly high defenses 35%-40% S/L/F/C/E/NE and 46% Melee and in farms or on teams he did fine, but I struggled with some enemies if I got away from the group or solo'd and my damage never felt good, but my regen was through the roof and I never had to watch my blue bar. Another thing always bugged me is that I had other toons that had no problems with any group even some of my Scrappers could stand better, my Claws/WP as an example. 

 

But...

 

Now, I'm in a new boat, still learning the ropes though. @Spaghetti Betty threw together a build for my Sav/Bio Brute that on paper I just couldn't see it working...at first. Defenses had been lowered anywhere from 1/4 to 1/2 and my resistances dropped ~10% but my damage output shot up 30% - 50% and I gained a couple range attacks which I dearly wanted. And guess what... So far, I've had a better time of it than before. I haven't yet faced all the foes as before but that'll be coming soon and I bet he fairs better.

[Maelwys]

Personally, if I was to set out to build a new Bio Tanker right now for general PVE content; my main priorities would be aim for high damage (obviously) and high recharge (because DNA Siphon, Parasitic Aura and Ablative Carapace all love it).
Then I'd aim for capped S/L Damage Resistance (or within one SMoT proc worth of it) with Offensive Adaptation running. This should be pretty easy to do without noteworthy build sacrifices; and much of it might happen organically (Bio-organically?!) as a result of building for Damage/Recharge.
However next up, I'd aim to softcap the build's E/N/F/C Defenses. This might require sacrificing a couple of damage procs etc. for set bonuses... but assuming I have room for a few extra power picks such as "Weave" and "Combat Jumping" any offensive performance reduction should be relatively minor.
And finally, I'd look at softcapping its Defense to either S/L or Melee. This last one will be the real killer; because Bio starts off with no native S/L or Melee Defense. So unless my offensive powerset has an ability that grants a +Def buff (which is why I really like my Bio/Staff), I'll likely need to make major build concessions in order to get enough +Def set bonuses to reach the softcap. Because low-downside options such as 4-piece Unbreakable Guard sets can only get you so far. And yes... I may well decide that actually getting all the way to this particular softcap is simply not worth the performance tradeoff and instead aim to be within a single Purple Insp of the softcap (12%? 20%? 33.5%? - I've got a few Blaster builds in the stable that intentionally get a smidge over 12% so that a Large Purple can softcap them in a pinch!)

AFAIK nearly all builds in CoX will have a sweet spot where the opportunity cost of attaining more mitigation is a practically negligible (if even measurable) reduction in damage output. However as you pursue more and more mitigation that opportunity cost will get greater and greater until you finally reach the point where going any higher is no longer an acceptable tradeoff to you. And obviously different people will have different views on what an unacceptable level of opportunity cost is. If you handed @Spaghetti Betty and @Hyperstrike each an identical level 1 Tanker and came back a few days later, you may end up wondering if the two now-matured builds you're looking at are even the same AT... heck, I'm sure Betty could make a good stab at emulating at least five different ATs on the same raw toon chassis by herself. Possibly even simultaneously.

I'm a tad OCD (surprise surprise) and I probably place more emphasis than most folk do on trying to get each of my builds to hit particular number and percentage thresholds because doing so "FEELS RIGHT" to me even if they're usually superfluous... but for me playing with the numbers is a large part of the fun. On average I probably spend about twice as much time poking at each toon's build than I do actually playing it...
 

Edited 19 hours ago by Maelwys

[hakurr]

you can take a look at my build he does well in all content,

 

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[Spaghetti Betty]

1 hour ago, Maelwys said:

heck, I'm sure Betty could make a good stab at emulating at least five different ATs on the same raw toon chassis by herself. Possibly even simultaneously.

 

I feel like you're giving me too much credit, but thanks!

 

On topic, making a "Bio Armor Tank that can sit in offensive mode and withstand most content" is actually pretty easy! Nearly all Tankers already "withstand most content" out of the box, and Bio does so not through Resistance or Defense, but through aggressive Absorb, Healing, and force multiplication. Seriously, what other armor offers more to offense than Bio? Maybe Fire, but I don't think Rad Armor comes close, either!

 

It's already been iterated a lot, but your main focus should be high Recharge and Max HP. As a Tanker, you're more than likely going to wind up with capped S/L RES just with typical slotting fundamentals, and getting your exotic DEF is pretty easy! Most of the time for me, it just takes slotting Environmental Modification a bit, adding the two uniques, combat jumping, Weave, and 3-slotting Eradication in some kind of AoE. This should give you plenty of room to maximize your global recharge and offensive potential, because dead mobs won't be able to hit you! Pro tip, melees that incorporate lots of Knockdown are super good at this part! Sets like Battle Axe, Super Strength, Katana, and Martial Arts are top contenders for this! They don't really have to play by the same rules since their BnB attacks can take Force Feedback procs and keep them refreshed at a pretty consistent rate!

 

And another piece of advice I have is to take Burnout! What's better than 2 Absorb layers? 4 Absorb layers!