Bring Story Content in line with Code of Conduct

[Due Regard]

Quote

Content Guidelines

The following is considered prohibited content:

• Anything illegal in the real world:
  • This includes anything related to gambling, child pornography, terrorism, illegal controlled substances, and any real world criminal activity (yes, we know City of Villains exists)
• Hate speech:
  • Hate speech is defined as anything threatening or abusive towards a specific group based on their race, religious beliefs, political affiliation, disability, sexual orientation or gender identity
• Controversial and adult content, including:
  • Sexual, provocative, pornographic, or adult content
  • Violent content
  • Controversial religious content
  • Controversial political content
  • Anything involving controversial real-world individuals or organisations
  • Anything involving sensitive events, both current and historical

User-created content is subject to the content restrictions within the Code of Conduct.

In-game content should be edited/rewritten/removed as needed to also fall in line with the same Code of Conduct.

Lt. Harris' arc is one that constantly comes to mind, as it is goes beyond "comic book" villainy, and is an early contact, setting the tone for new player experience.
Westin Phipps also, though that one is lampshaded slightly more due to the character's writing/dialogue.
Much of the Crusader/Power arcs in Praetoria would need to be looked at.
Even St. Martial's casino and Slot Machine contact are examples of gambling.
These are just a few examples, as I've not gone exhaustively through the wiki and compared to the standards posted above, I'm instead going off my own recollection.

[arcane]

Can you please give more details about what exactly has offended you?

[Troo]

15 minutes ago, Due Regard said:

In-game content should be edited/rewritten/removed as needed to also fall in line with the same Code of Conduct.

 

'should' sounds like more than a suggestion or feedback.

recognizing "User-created content" as a different thing than "In-game content" is important and you've done that.

 

policing player actions / creations.. i wouldn't want that job if i was paid.

i've have had characters generic'd. even if deserved, it can be frustrating. that said, it's not the hill i would want to die on.

[Due Regard]

13 minutes ago, arcane said:

Can you please give more details about what exactly has offended you?

Nothing's offended me, per se.

I'm advocating for fairness, that's all.

It seems disingenuous that the Code of Conduct applies only to user-generated content, and in-game content is given a pass.

 

10 minutes ago, Troo said:

'should' sounds like more than a suggestion or feedback.

recognizing "User-created content" as a different thing than "In-game content" is important and you've done that.

 

policing player actions / creations.. i wouldn't want that job if i was paid.

i've have had characters generic'd. even if deserved, it can be frustrating. that said, it's not the hill i would want to die on.

Neither would I. I appreciate the volunteers who run, support, and moderate this game - I've no desire to join them due to many factors, time being the foremost.

[arcane]

11 minutes ago, Due Regard said:

Nothing's offended me, per se.

I'm advocating for fairness, that's all.

It seems disingenuous that the Code of Conduct applies only to user-generated content, and in-game content is given a pass.

I think this is a niche position that doesn’t quite justify the complete deletion of the St. Martial casino and the 5th Column, so I’ll let others take it from here.

[arcane]

Also I glanced at the HCWiki for Lt. Harris and didn’t see anything bad at a glance.

[Maris]

Nobody wants that and nobody's going to do that, lmfao. 
 

Edited Monday at 05:08 PM by Maris

[Ghost]

Always funny to me when someone gets caught doing something wrong, and then run around trying to point out things others do..

 

Where was this concern for the story content BEFORE you got generic’d?

 

 

 

Edited Monday at 05:15 PM by Ghost

[Psychopithicus]

1 hour ago, Due Regard said:

Lt. Harris' arc is one that constantly comes to mind, as it is goes beyond "comic book" villainy, and is an early contact, setting the tone for new player experience.
Westin Phipps also, though that one is lampshaded slightly more due to the character's writing/dialogue.
Much of the Crusader/Power arcs in Praetoria would need to be looked at.
Even St. Martial's casino and Slot Machine contact are examples of gambling.
These are just a few examples, as I've not gone exhaustively through the wiki and compared to the standards posted above, I'm instead going off my own recollection.

 

Whatever your motivations may be (I'm too cynical to see this as just "advocating for fairness" but that's a whole other can of worms), you're effectively asking the devs to re-write the entire game and perform mass content cutting for little to no tangible gain. The devs are volunteers; this isn't their full-time job, and they're sure as hell not being paid to keep Homecoming's servers up. If you don't have the time for this, why would you assume they do?

[Rudra]

I'm not seeing where Lt. Harris or Westin Phipps are violating the Code of Conduct. The "anything illegal in the real world" part doesn't apply to NPCs since they are the ones that are supposed to be providing us with the feel that we are operating in a criminal environment as villains/rogues/vigilantes or for us to stop as heroes/vigilantes/rogues.

 

Lt. Harris isn't espousing any hate speech, he is espousing his anger at his perceived betrayal. He isn't engaging in any gambling, sexual/pornographic content, religious content, political content, addressing real world entities, or addressing anything I see as sensitive content. He is a bitter, delusional person lashing out until we put him down. So please show me where he violates the Code of Conduct.

 

Westin Phipps is supposed to be slime. And he does it very well. However, even he doesn't violate the Code of Conduct in any way I can see. So if they are, please enlighten me on how.

 

Edited Monday at 06:27 PM by Rudra
Edited to correct "Westing" to "Westin" in 1st sentence.

[Ghost]

33 minutes ago, Rudra said:

I'm not seeing where Lt. Harris or Westing Phipps are violating the Code of Conduct. The "anything illegal in the real world" part doesn't apply to NPCs since they are the ones that are supposed to be providing us with the feel that we are operating in a criminal environment as villains/rogues/vigilantes or for us to stop as heroes/vigilantes/rogues.

 

Lt. Harris isn't espousing any hate speech, he is espousing his anger at his perceived betrayal. He isn't engaging in any gambling, sexual/pornographic content, religious content, political content, addressing real world entities, or addressing anything I see as sensitive content. He is a bitter, delusional person lashing out until we put him down. So please show me where he violates the Code of Conduct.

 

Westin Phipps is supposed to be slime. And he does it very well. However, even he doesn't violate the Code of Conduct in any way I can see. So if they are, please enlighten me on how.

Know what else they are not doing?

Dressing up as copyrighted characters.

 

Just thought I’d throw that out there.

[macskull]

*posts ridiculous thread in Suggestions and Feedback forum*

 

*thread gets locked*

 

*reposts the exact same thread in the exact same place an hour after the original thread gets locked*

 

Surely this one will end differently!

[Rudra]

1 minute ago, macskull said:

*posts ridiculous thread in Suggestions and Feedback forum*

 

*thread gets locked*

 

*reposts the exact same thread in the exact same place an hour after the original thread gets locked*

 

Surely this one will end differently!

I think the other one got locked because of the responses.

[arcane]

4 minutes ago, Ghost said:

Know what else they are not doing?

Dressing up as copyrighted characters.

 

Just thought I’d throw that out there.

Even so, it’s the comparison between humans and non-humans that’s questionable to me. I keep trying to think of silly examples. Like, it’s like saying that just because I can’t legally defecate on your stuff, we need to start putting birds in prison.

[macskull]

Just now, arcane said:

Even so, it’s the comparison between humans and non-humans that’s questionable to me. I keep trying to think of silly examples. Like, it’s like saying that just because I can’t legally defecate on your stuff, we need to start putting birds in prison.

If we really wanted to enforce the code of conduct on non-player-created content we would also need to delete every non-Homecoming contact and NPC since the code of conduct prohibits characters that already exist in the CoH IP.

[Bionic_Flea]

4 minutes ago, macskull said:

If we really wanted to enforce the code of conduct on non-player-created content we would also need to delete every non-Homecoming contact and NPC since the code of conduct prohibits characters that already exist in the CoH IP.

 

[Due Regard]

20 minutes ago, macskull said:

*posts ridiculous thread in Suggestions and Feedback forum*

*thread gets locked*

*reposts the exact same thread in the exact same place an hour after the original thread gets locked*

Surely this one will end differently!

There's a reason I reposted it, and a reason (I think) that the new post with altered content didn't get immediately locked.
However, in the interest of continuing to follow the rules, I'm not going to discuss why - Y'all are smart enough to figure it out. 

1 hour ago, arcane said:

I think this is a niche position that doesn’t quite justify the complete deletion of the St. Martial casino and the 5th Column, so I’ll let others take it from here.

You're right, I do feel it is a niche position, and that the correct answer isn't the wholesale scrubbing of in-game content.

1 hour ago, arcane said:

Also I glanced at the HCWiki for Lt. Harris and didn’t see anything bad at a glance.

He murdered a fellow Longbow officer, as well as the rest of the base, because she "friend-zoned" him. The arc has you disable the medi-porter system, so any defeated Longbow are actually dead. His dialogue even references Lt. Page being dead. I think there's enough issues with sexual predation/assault/violence in the real world that we don't need to have it duplicated in the game...

Quote

We try to foster a pleasant atmosphere in games and on the forums for people that want to escape from the trials and tribulations of the real world.  

Lt. Harris' arc does not allow that. Especially as a lowbie arc, one that is part of the New Player Experience.

1 hour ago, Ghost said:

Always funny to me when someone gets caught doing something wrong, and then run around trying to point out things others do..

Where was this concern for the story content BEFORE you got generic’d?

Honestly, because I didn't think it an issue, until it was highlighted due to circumstances that I'm not going into.

1 hour ago, Psychopithicus said:

Whatever your motivations may be (I'm too cynical to see this as just "advocating for fairness" but that's a whole other can of worms), you're effectively asking the devs to re-write the entire game and perform mass content cutting for little to no tangible gain. The devs are volunteers; this isn't their full-time job, and they're sure as hell not being paid to keep Homecoming's servers up. If you don't have the time for this, why would you assume they do?

You're not wrong, I am advocating for a great amount of effort for little return. And, I'm well aware they are volunteers, I'm not assuming they have time for anything. I am making a suggestion.

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

I'm not seeing where Lt. Harris or Westin Phipps are violating the Code of Conduct. The "anything illegal in the real world" part doesn't apply to NPCs since they are the ones that are supposed to be providing us with the feel that we are operating in a criminal environment as villains/rogues/vigilantes or for us to stop as heroes/vigilantes/rogues.

Lt. Harris isn't espousing any hate speech, he is espousing his anger at his perceived betrayal. He isn't engaging in any gambling, sexual/pornographic content, religious content, political content, addressing real world entities, or addressing anything I see as sensitive content. He is a bitter, delusional person lashing out until we put him down. So please show me where he violates the Code of Conduct.

Westin Phipps is supposed to be slime. And he does it very well. However, even he doesn't violate the Code of Conduct in any way I can see. So if they are, please enlighten me on how.

Lt. Harris - Mass murder and sexual harassment due to being "friend-zoned".
Phipps - A fantastic example of stochastic terrorism incitement.

26 minutes ago, Ghost said:

Know what else they are not doing?

Dressing up as copyrighted characters.

Just thought I’d throw that out there.

Yeah, that's silly and unrelated to the topic at hand. Thanks?

18 minutes ago, Rudra said:

I think the other one got locked because of the responses.

It did, and for extraneous information in the original post.

18 minutes ago, arcane said:

Even so, it’s the comparison between humans and non-humans that’s questionable to me. I keep trying to think of silly examples. Like, it’s like saying that just because I can’t legally defecate on your stuff, we need to start putting birds in prison.

Ah, but despite birds not being real (they're drones), they're not MADE to poop on your stuff by humans. They taught themselves that...
The story content/NPC's/missions are all made by people, not autonomously created from thin air... or bird seed.

Edited Monday at 07:06 PM by Due Regard
Shoulda multi-quoted from the start.

[El D]

3 hours ago, Due Regard said:

User-created content is subject to the content restrictions within the Code of Conduct.

In-game content should be edited/rewritten/removed as needed to also fall in line with the same Code of Conduct.
 

 

Narrative context is not equivalent to player context. Running around on a casino themed map is not the same thing as a player character running around promoting a gambling site or real world casino. The 5th Column are Nazi terrorists but they aren't espousing that as a valid viewpoint the way allowing a Nazi terrorist player character would be. The Freakshow use Excelsior and the Trolls use Superadine as fictional drugs but that's not the same as a Scrapper with a bio that says they explicitly get their powers from cocaine.

 

The Code of Conduct applies to player-made characters, text chat, and AE arcs precisely because the generation of all that is outside the direct control of the devs and some people are jackasses. It's a pretty standard 'You do X flavor of nonsense, you will get generic'd/banned' legal safeguard.

Edited Monday at 07:07 PM by El D

[Gerswin]

I just don't think it is fair that the game can have superadine (drug) references but when I make a "Meth Salesman" toon with links to my darkweb meth dealing site I get generic'd. Please be consistent.

[Sakura Tenshi]

I think part of it is the difference between things and acts strictly in game and it’s universe vs talking about doing them in real life through the game. For example, using the game as a communication network for drug dealing operations.

[Luminara]

This dude gettin' pissy because there are bad guys saying and doing bad things in a comic book superhero game which focuses on beating the shit out of bad guys for saying and doing bad things.

 

On the forums, when he could be beating the shit out of the bad guys saying and doing bad things.

 

Someone get my roflcopter, we goin' on a riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide.

[Due Regard]

Just now, Luminara said:

This dude gettin' pissy because there are bad guys saying and doing bad things in a comic book superhero game which focuses on beating the shit out of bad guys for saying and doing bad things.

On the forums, when he could be beating the shit out of the bad guys saying and doing bad things.

Someone get my roflcopter, we goin' on a riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide.

No keyboard smashing here. Just trying to start a dialogue. Note: You're here in the mud pit with me... Not sitting as high on that horse as you might think. ^_^

10 minutes ago, Gerswin said:

I just don't think it is fair that the game can have superadine (drug) references but when I make a "Meth Salesman" toon with links to my darkweb meth dealing site I get generic'd. Please be consistent.

4 minutes ago, Sakura Tenshi said:

I think part of it is the difference between things and acts strictly in game and it’s universe vs talking about doing them in real life through the game. For example, using the game as a communication network for drug dealing operations.

Pretty much that... A character that is a Superadine dealer seems reasonable, it is using in-game lore and established canon. It shouldn't be against the Code of Conduct, due to the precedents in the game.
Espousing meth sales, with information on how to purchase said drugs in the bio? Yeah, that's a clear violation - encouraging IRL drug use, RMT transactions, etc... Character gets generic'd.

[Psychopithicus]

So, after taking a peek at the other thread for context, this is what I'm seeing in this situation.

 

You had no issue with the game's content at first. Then you had a character that was generic'd because something about that character went against Homecoming's Code of Conduct. Now you suddenly have an objection--which you did not have until your character got generic'd--to the CoC applying only to the players and not the game's content as a whole.

 

Regardless of what the CoC violation even was or whether the GMs were right to generic your character, your overall reaction to having administrative action taken against you really isn't painting you in a sympathetic light here.

[Ghost]

5 minutes ago, Psychopithicus said:

So, after taking a peek at the other thread for context, this is what I'm seeing in this situation.

 

You had no issue with the game's content at first. Then you had a character that was generic'd because something about that character went against Homecoming's Code of Conduct. Now you suddenly have an objection--which you did not have until your character got generic'd--to the CoC applying only to the players and not the game's content as a whole.

 

Regardless of what the CoC violation even was or whether the GMs were right to generic your character, your overall reaction to having administrative action taken against you really isn't painting you in a sympathetic light here.

You know, we could have this all wrong.

He coulda been on the verge of exposing the corruption, when luck would have it, he got in trouble first.  Therefore making it appear as if his concern was actually retaliatory, when in reality it was just a timing issue.

 

 

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, Due Regard said:

He murdered a fellow Longbow officer, as well as the rest of the base, because she "friend-zoned" him. The arc has you disable the medi-porter system, so any defeated Longbow are actually dead. His dialogue even references Lt. Page being dead. I think there's enough issues with sexual predation/assault/violence in the real world that we don't need to have it duplicated in the game...

We routinely full on kill NPCs in the game. There are lots of NPCs we fail to save and full on die. Having a deranged NPC show he is deranged is not a violation of the Code of Conduct. You aren't going to get generic'ed because your bio says you killed a made up character somewhere in your character's past that isn't a protected character in the game. Neither is he a sexual predator. A deranged idiot out for revenge for being told he won't be dated isn't sexual predation. It's still a problem, but you aren't helping him commit a sexual offense. You are helping him drive out Longbow and murder the group leader. Which is actually fairly sedate for villainous content.

 

1 hour ago, Due Regard said:

Lt. Harris - Mass murder and sexual harassment due to being "friend-zoned".

Mass murder as a plot is normal for villain content. It is not hate speech. It is not promoting gambling, child pornography, terrorism, (real world) illegal controlled substances, real world criminal activity (as specific to any incident), and does not threaten, denigrate, or abuse groups based on race, religious beliefs, political affiliation, disability, sexual orientation, or gender identity. It does not contain sexual, provocative, pornographic, or socially recognized adult content. It does not have violent content (other than is normal for a RPG or most other video games). It does not address controversial religious or political content/beliefs. It does not have anything to do with real world individuals or organizations. And it does not involve any sensitive real world events. You're trying too hard for retaliation.

 

1 hour ago, Due Regard said:

Phipps - A fantastic example of stochastic terrorism incitement.

It does not promote terrorist ideals or groups. You're trying too hard for retaliation.

 

Edited Monday at 08:13 PM by Rudra
Edited to remove "y" from "predator". And again to correct "and" to "any". And yet again to correct "pornography".