About the relative difficulty of fights in this game vs. others

[JKCarrier]

4 hours ago, Seed22 said:

Admittedly, this stems from my own frustrations that every time I say BASIC MECHANICS should be added to certain fights in the game im met with the "Go play Dark Souls".  It gets to be annoying and when those people would hit me with that my instinct says they don't play anything but CoH, because literally everyone else in modern gaming understands that there are plenty of games harder than the souls lineup.

"Gee, the people who don't like hard games don't seem to know many hard games." You noticed that, huh? I also would not be able to name very many brands of coleslaw, professional soccer teams, or klezmer bands. I wonder why that is.

[Seed22]

27 minutes ago, JKCarrier said:

"Gee, the people who don't like hard games don't seem to know many hard games." You noticed that, huh? I also would not be able to name very many brands of coleslaw, professional soccer teams, or klezmer bands. I wonder why that is.

Its not even hard games, a lot of people in this community don’t know about ANY games and legit just throw out Dark souls if any other mechanic or anything is brought up. Oh and WoW.

 

But to address the other quotes, I said specifically I enjoy soulslikes yes. But what I also added was crash bandicoot as an example of a non soulslike game. Another I’m enjoying is Hollow Knight, another non soulslike. Crypt Custodian was another. 
 

 

To be perfectly clear: There are a litany of other games that are more difficult than Souls. Some soulslikes are, but ignoring them, there are platformers harder, turn based games that are harder(E33 is a perfect example), and there are lots easier but still more difficult than CoH.  Like Hades, Balatro, [Redacted]…

 

My main point was my gripe with people only using souls games like dark souls as a form of difficulty. 
 

Also just because I mentioned I liked soulslikes doesnt defeat any point. 😂

Edited Monday at 12:54 AM by Seed22

[Seed22]

Oh BTW the HC content devs are well aware the majority of players want chill and laid back content, and have no plans to, as far as im aware, make the game noticeably more difficult. 
 

They are adding HM content because there really wasnt any beforehand and it gives some kind of challenging endgame for those who want it within whats possible for CoH, but thats not going to be the entire game.

 

Alls to say, rest assured CoH will remain casual, which again, I too enjoy. 

[Paradox Fate]

17 minutes ago, Seed22 said:

Oh BTW the HC content devs are well aware the majority of players want chill and laid back content, and have no plans to, as far as im aware, make the game noticeably more difficult. 
 

They are adding HM content because there really wasnt any beforehand and it gives some kind of challenging endgame for those who want it within whats possible for CoH, but thats not going to be the entire game.

 

Alls to say, rest assured CoH will remain casual, which again, I too enjoy. 

 

They are definitely upping the difficulty on the mid-late game, for some reason. 

We got the CoT and the Council remakes, along with the redone Cavern of Transcendence Trial.

As the result the trial is nearly dead these days and doing Khan is less of a hassle to do than this now. 

[Neiska]

6 hours ago, Seed22 said:

I always have to ask, do you all know there are difficult games that ARENT dark souls or do you all legit think those are the only difficult games?

 

The oldschool Castlevania's. Super Ghosts n Goblins. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Zombies ate my Neighbors. Adventure of Link. And of course, Battletoads.

[lemming]

A lot of people also play CoH more for the social aspect.    For hard games, I tend to do more puzzle stuff, or even fire up nethack on occasion.  (Endless Sky is another game I screw around with)

[lyra]

my recipe for more challenge:

First+NightWard.

stay at lvl44 so the veterans can't spam judgment any group.

or go solo in the labyrinth

 

btw: more love for lab (need the pet from last phase)

[Octogoat]

10 hours ago, Neiska said:

 

The oldschool Castlevania's. Super Ghosts n Goblins. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Zombies ate my Neighbors. Adventure of Link. And of course, Battletoads.

Don't forget NES bill &Ted that horse riding level was a nightmare

[KaizenSoze]

My issue with the difficultly of the game is really in the end game.

 

Outside of hard mode due to Incarnates, support or control isn't really needed.

 

Endurance, recharge, issues, Ageless. Defense, resists, Barrier. Controls who cares, just load up on damage and Judgement away.

 

A personal example happened a few months ago. My Kinetics defender was only a PI radio team. Monitoring my damage buffs using Combat Attributes I was providing about 225-250% damage buffs to most of the team. Then two built out blasters joined the team, not picking on blasters here, might have happened with any high damage AT. Very quickly the amount of damage buff I am providing drops to 100% or less because the blasters are obliterating everything so fast that there aren't enough targets get a decent Fulcrum Shift. I went from feeling useful to a mostly a spectator.

 

A +3 Yin is actually fun and support/control feels needed. This is often not true in the endgame.

Also, I played from around issue 1, memory is fuzzy, to a little after the release of City of Villains. The game was much harder then, people needed to team to succeed, outside a few broken builds. 

[skoryy]

9 minutes ago, KaizenSoze said:

Outside of hard mode due to Incarnates, support or control isn't really needed.

 

Nobody fights AVs anymore? This mentality is why nobody's been running Kahn even as the WST, nobody wants to spend a half hour grinding down Reichsman with just DPS.

[KaizenSoze]

41 minutes ago, skoryy said:

 

Nobody fights AVs anymore? This mentality is why nobody's been running Kahn even as the WST, nobody wants to spend a half hour grinding down Reichsman with just DPS.

 Kahn is a rare special case, that only needs support when you run at high difficulty, which most teams don't do. Then there is a case for some -resist and -regen for that AV, but defense, endurance, resists all those are taken care of by Incarnates. Even -resists and -regen can be supplied by Lore pets.

[skoryy]

5 minutes ago, KaizenSoze said:

Kahn is a rare special case, that only needs support when you run at high difficulty, which most teams don't do.

 

I was in a -1 this week and it still took forever and a day to grind Reichsman down.

 

[The Trouble]

I'm getting a weird vibe from certain posters that seem to be trying to convince us that this is a Bad Game(TM) and we're wrong to like it.  I'm reminded of the necessary phase of teens and young adults that vehemently, angrily, reject everything they enjoyed as a kid to substantiate their adult-ness.  I'm all for criticism, but aggressive negativity doesn't encourage a meaningful dialogue.  Backhanded bad attitudes poisoned the refreshing positivity thread @Scarlet Shocker attempted.

 

Please stick around and interact with the community you've become a part of, but a vitriolic dislike for the game isn't a constructive way to connect with that community.  It's a bit strange to show up at comics convention to preach how silly you find the hobby.

 

I really like this casual MMO that heavily emphasizes my own creativity.  I also like:

• Dark Souls 1 & Elden Ring
• Dead Cells
• Noita
• Project Zomboid
• Baba is You

All of those games test my limits in different and satisfying ways.  I play those games when I want that sensation.  I play City of Heroes when I want City of Heroes.

 

I agree with the rising sentiment that Controllers have a marginalized place in a lot of endgame content. I think that Brutes and Kheldians are also in a nebulous place.  I'm willing to talk about their shortcomings, but I would get nowhere if I opened with "These classes are stupid and useless, and their design is irredeemably flawed.  Anyone who likes them is a complete moron."

[srmalloy]

2 hours ago, KaizenSoze said:

Outside of hard mode due to Incarnates, support or control isn't really needed.

And when a single solution is found to a tactical problem in game, all curiosity ends, and that solution is run to the exclusion of any other tactic -- the inescapable "Essential: Must have Tier 4 Barrier" addition to any call for four-star teams is the prime example; rotating Barrier spam removes a lot of having to think about your tactics.

[KaizenSoze]

5 minutes ago, srmalloy said:

And when a single solution is found to a tactical problem in game, all curiosity ends, and that solution is run to the exclusion of any other tactic -- the inescapable "Essential: Must have Tier 4 Barrier" addition to any call for four-star teams is the prime example; rotating Barrier spam removes a lot of having to think about your tactics.

I don't do enough of them to have a strong opinion. I was on a PUG 4 Star Aeon that had 7 players rotating T4 Barrier and one T4 Ageless.

 

Took us 1.5 hours.

[Lunar Ronin]

5 minutes ago, srmalloy said:

And when a single solution is found to a tactical problem in game, all curiosity ends, and that solution is run to the exclusion of any other tactic -- the inescapable "Essential: Must have Tier 4 Barrier" addition to any call for four-star teams is the prime example; rotating Barrier spam removes a lot of having to think about your tactics.

 

Not only that, but the Homecoming community as a whole has started to use the Barrier Destiny as a crutch for *everything*, even in content where there would be far better Destiny power picks.  It's quite annoying.  But I digress.

[MTeague]

This is partly why I find lvl 1-44 far, far more enjoyable than levels 45-50.

But people will gravitate to what gives them their dopamine hit, and it doesn't have to be the same thing I gravitate towards.

[Icono04]

2 hours ago, MTeague said:

But people will gravitate to what gives them their dopamine hit, and it doesn't have to be the same thing I gravitate towards.

You must be new to The Internet. So let me be the first to welcome you, and to explain the first rule of any online chat forum: "If other people like something in a different way than you like it, then it is your sacred duty to spend all your waking hours writing walls of text to convince them that they are wrong."

 

😁

[Neiska]

6 hours ago, Octogoat said:

Don't forget NES bill &Ted that horse riding level was a nightmare

Never played that, but I remember a lot of the Disney games for all their silliness were actually quite difficult.

[Neiska]

5 hours ago, KaizenSoze said:

Outside of hard mode due to Incarnates, support or control isn't really needed.

 

I would argue that for the majority of 95% or so of content, "nobody" is "needed." You can do pretty much any activity with any AT makeup. You don't NEED a tank, you don't NEED controllers, you don't NEED healing, and so on. And I think they did an overall good job balancing things.

 

If you have a lot of Tanks/Brutes, you don't really need healers.

If you have a lot of Controllers, you don't really need tankers.

If you have full on DPS, you don't really need anyone.

If you have full MM group, you don't really need anyone.

If you have a full SoA/Widow group, you don't really need anyone.

I have never been on one, but I suspect if you had all Warshades/Peacebringers, you definitely don't need anyone. (And that might actually be a blast to play, come to think of it.)

 

One of the things I like the most about this game is that you don't really need the MMO party tri-fecta of Tank/Healer/DPS. You can go all Tank, or all DPS, or all Control, heck, you can even go all Support or Healer and accomplish 95% of the game. The only real difference is how long it will take and how many people may die in the process.

[KaizenSoze]

53 minutes ago, Neiska said:

If you have a lot of Controllers, you don't really need tankers.

Going to have to express some skepticism on this one. I don't see any organizing all Controller ITFs, at least on Excell. I do see pretty much a lot of other ATs doing it.

 

Just after Illusion got the pet feature where you could make your pets look like you. I organized an all Illusion control 4x8 ITF. It went horribly. We had no DPS. Took forever.

 

When the next page drops Controllers should be in a better position DPS wise. 

 

To your main point. There is a huge difference in my mind between being needed and being useful. As you said, almost nothing is needed in most CoX content. What I do not like in the endgame is the feeling of useless that occurs sometimes with support and controls when you realize that the team isn't really benefiting from your hard work. Due to the mobs just getting obliterated, everyone chaining Barrier for max resists and defense, or Ageless. I like to play support characters, but I have realized too many times that I am not really benefiting the team due to how the endgame is now. Again why I love Yin TFs. I feel like I am contributing most of the time.

 

Currently, it's one of the reason I mostly play VEATs. I can switch between support, control, and DPS easily. 

[Psyonico]

3 hours ago, KaizenSoze said:

Just after Illusion got the pet feature where you could make your pets look like you. I organized an all Illusion control 4x8 ITF. It went horribly. We had no DPS. Took forever.

I wonder where that went wrong…

I’ve done several all illusion ITFs and all of them went smoothly, other than Rommy being a track star.

[KaizenSoze]

50 minutes ago, Psyonico said:

I wonder where that went wrong…

I’ve done several all illusion ITFs and all of them went smoothly, other than Rommy being a track star.

 Probably weren't enough built out toons. It was a few years ago.

[golstat2003]

On 6/15/2025 at 10:09 PM, Neiska said:

 

The oldschool Castlevania's. Super Ghosts n Goblins. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Zombies ate my Neighbors. Adventure of Link. And of course, Battletoads.

 

All great games. And I would still rather play COH then any of them.