Did any feedback matter in the threads? Or…

[Snarky]

Did theybjust go ahead with every change theybolanned no matter what people mentioned?  
 

Because Black Hole has the strange two step effect with a intangible effect.   I honestly wonder if the “feedback” section was even read…

[skoryy]

There were several iterations of the patch that went through, with changes to Plant Control and Tanker inherents that I know were made due to player testing.

[KaizenSoze]

16 minutes ago, Snarky said:

Did theybjust go ahead with every change theybolanned no matter what people mentioned?  
 

Because Black Hole has the strange two step effect with a intangible effect.   I honestly wonder if the “feedback” section was even read…

The devs told me they just ignore your feedback. They read the rest.

 

/sarcasm

[Arcanum]

I can confirm the feedback threads were all read. We were even exporting them as single sheets to catch up on the pages of feedback. Also, as @skoryy mentioned, a lot of the final product was drastically changed from it's initial design based on player testing.

Whether feedback gets implemented or not is up to the dev in charge of the content (unless the City Council feels it needs to step in and enforce a change). There are still a handful of known issues - and we were fixing a few things mere minutes before release - but felt confident enough in the product to push it live.

However, I want to make it clear - we read ALL of the feedback threads.

[Maelwys]

41 minutes ago, Snarky said:

Did theybjust go ahead with every change theybolanned no matter what people mentioned? 

Nah; from what I could see there was actually a LOT of engagement on the Open Beta focussed feedback forums this time around - especially in the Tanker thread where the Devs specifically asked us to post clear times so they could see the effect of the changes. They made pretty major revisions and concessions based on it; revoking the radius nerfs first partially (Cones) then almost fully (AoEs) and changing the new "overcap" mechanic from two different exponential curves to a single much easier-to-understand flat reduction.

There were also several bugs spotted and fixed over the course of the testing and feedback (e.g. Staff).

Yes, there are certainly things requested that didn't make it into the patch (like lowering the cast time on Ground Zero!) but it's a whopper of a patch as it is, and the result looks much better now after all it went through on Beta.

[Snarky]

Good answers.  Still irritated by the intangibility in Black Hole.  Seems like an opportunity lost…

[Captain Powerhouse]

24 minutes ago, Snarky said:

Good answers.  Still irritated by the intangibility in Black Hole.  Seems like an opportunity lost…

 

If you bump into any critters that entirely resist the trawl effect but are made intangible with a single activation of Black Hole, please list them in a bug thread. Almost all enemies that entirely ignore trawl also have phase protection.

[PeregrineFalcon]

26 minutes ago, Snarky said:

Good answers.  Still irritated by the intangibility in Black Hole.  Seems like an opportunity lost…

I'm unhappy that they removed Energy Cloak from EA when they ported it to Tankers.

 

You should be happy though, Tankers are no longer out damage Brutes!

[MTeague]

15 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

I'm unhappy that they removed Energy Cloak from EA when they ported it to Tankers.

Really?  I like the +Def from Energy Cloak on my EM/EA Brute, but I hate the stealth effect / not being able to see my costume cleanly.

[Snarky]

38 minutes ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

 

If you bump into any critters that entirely resist the trawl effect but are made intangible with a single activation of Black Hole, please list them in a bug thread. Almost all enemies that entirely ignore trawl also have phase protection.

Longbow Wardens?

 

and if it is true that (almost?) everything that ignores trawl also ignores intangible (so much so i should drop a bug report…). WHY would they leave it in the power.  To increase the randomness of trying to ise it effectively?   

[Snarky]

39 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

I'm unhappy that they removed Energy Cloak from EA when they ported it to Tankers.

 

You should be happy though, Tankers are no longer out damage Brutes!

My Brute days are gone it seems.  I will not lay all the blame at HC buffing Tankers, …. But it did happen at nearly the same time.  

[Captain Powerhouse]

16 minutes ago, Snarky said:

and if it is true that (almost?) everything that ignores trawl also ignores intangible (so much so i should drop a bug report…). WHY would they leave it in the power.  To increase the randomness of trying to ise it effectively?   

 

Because it allows the power to retain functionality it always had for some players: the ability to stack it with other similar powers to take certain targets out of a fight temporarily, targets that are usually nearly impossible to hold or otherwise mez.

[merrypessimist]

1 hour ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

 

Because it allows the power to retain functionality it always had for some players: the ability to stack it with other similar powers to take certain targets out of a fight temporarily, targets that are usually nearly impossible to hold or otherwise mez.

 

Do you actually have numbers on how many times a given power is activated?  Because I suspect that the actual number of uses of Black Hole is hovering down under a thousand for the entire sixish? year run of Homecoming. 

[Snarky]

28 minutes ago, merrypessimist said:

 

Do you actually have numbers on how many times a given power is activated?  Because I suspect that the actual number of uses of Black Hole is hovering down under a thousand for the entire sixish? year run of Homecoming. 

i took it on my solo the entire game dark dark Corr.  now at 34, so have not had it long.  i use it (exclusively) to intangible mobs standing on a glowie, so i do not have to fight them.  and, the fear cone works just about as good for that task.  

[Snarky]

2 hours ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

 

Because it allows the power to retain functionality it always had for some players: the ability to stack it with other similar powers to take certain targets out of a fight temporarily, targets that are usually nearly impossible to hold or otherwise mez.

without resorting to Snark, i am being honestly skeptical.  just as scientific as they come.  

 

do you have any examples of what fights you are talking about, the enemies, why this "stacked intangible" works, what other intangible powers they stack it with?  and, most importantly, how does this benefit the person/team?  how do they finish the fight?  how does this make it better for them?

 

no disrespect intended.  i have been proved wrong, many many times.  i just do not know a fight in CoH/V that intangible is the magical "easy button" for.  

 

edit.  and if there has been such a fight in the past, then it must be in the class of creatures that are not affected by trawl, and yet still affected by intangible in order for this iteration of Black Hole accomplish the aforementioned goal? is that right?  what mobs?

Edited Tuesday at 10:59 PM by Snarky

[Snarky]

1 minute ago, Americas Angel said:

Congrats on the release. I know you've had this one cooking for a while. 

too soon?

[Americas Angel]

6 minutes ago, Snarky said:

too soon?

Damn you're quick! I replied to the wrong thread lmao

[macskull]

1 hour ago, Snarky said:

do you have any examples of what fights you are talking about, the enemies, why this "stacked intangible" works, what other intangible powers they stack it with?  and, most importantly, how does this benefit the person/team?  how do they finish the fight?  how does this make it better for them?

I can think of one encounter where intangibility is extremely useful provided the entire team is on the same page, so not something you'll run into with a PuG.

[High_Beam]

I think maybe they reduced the amount of mobs spawns in Khallisti Wharf to something more reasonable.  I mean there seems to be a less dense saturation of all of the misplaced villain groups there.  Still need to work on improving the civilian population numbers but I think they listened to feedback on the density.  Then again I could just be projecting my desires there.

[KaizenSoze]

24 minutes ago, High_Beam said:

I think maybe they reduced the amount of mobs spawns in Khallisti Wharf to something more reasonable.  I mean there seems to be a less dense saturation of all of the misplaced villain groups there.  Still need to work on improving the civilian population numbers but I think they listened to feedback on the density.  Then again I could just be projecting my desires there.

 Probably has more to do with the number of players running around killing Blackwing to spawn the GM. I don't think there was any reduction in mob density for release.

[Troo]

6 hours ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

If you bump into any critters that entirely resist the trawl effect but are made intangible with a single activation of Black Hole, please list them in a bug thread. Almost all enemies that entirely ignore trawl also have phase protection.

 

Then why make it sound like targets are trawled, and if not, phased? That's just stupid.

 

Dark Miasma

 Black Hole 

• This power now applies a trawl (reverse repel) effect.
• Targets that are immune to the trawl effect will be phased.

 

 

8 hours ago, Snarky said:

Did theybjust go ahead with every change theybolanned no matter what people mentioned?  
 

Because Black Hole has the strange two step effect with a intangible effect.   I honestly wonder if the “feedback” section was even read…

 

The feedback was read. Some of it was responded to.

But yes with a select few exceptions the designs were implemented as they intended before focused feedback. This was a big release. Kudos HC team. 

 

And yes @Snarky most of feedback, though read, was dismissed as the paths were already chosen and level of effort already spent.

It is full of holes that will need to be addressed post release. Overreach, echo chamber, blinders, favoritism, lack of of suggestion forum consideration, questionable priorities, missed opportunities, undocumented changes, all there. There was also a decent helping of 'my way.. or don't let the door hit you in the ass'. (whether deadline related or other, who can say) 

 

 

[Troo]

 

us too.

[High_Beam]

1 hour ago, KaizenSoze said:

 Probably has more to do with the number of players running around killing Blackwing to spawn the GM. I don't think there was any reduction in mob density for release.

Well that saddens me.  Then again the new KW brings a lot of sadness.

 

Oh well back to the many other things from this new issue that do not.

[Ukase]

17 hours ago, Arcanum said:

There are still a handful of known issues - and we were fixing a few things mere minutes before release - but felt confident enough in the product to push it live.

This is the part I don't get. You know there are issues - but you release it anyway. Why "push"? There's no rush. We could easily wait 6 months to a year between new stuff. I suppose it's a rhetorical question. Unless the answer makes a lot of sense, I probably wouldn't agree with the rationale anyway. But, like Snarky, I'm also a curmudgeon, but I end up liking the content after I get used to it. Not a big fan of change. 

[Hedgefund2]

No software has ever been released that didn't have "a few issues" left to fix.  Those known issues just have to be evaluated for severity.  If not too severe, then it gets released.  Another way to put it "perfect is the enemy of good".  This release, as is, qualifies as good.  I applaud this release and its timing.

 

As to questions posed in the OP, yes, I personally saw feedback being implemented, Plant's cap on Seeds is a prime example.

Edited Wednesday at 01:07 PM by Hedgefund2