Knockback, Stil a Dirty Word?

[ZemX]

3 hours ago, Gerswin said:

I love the concept of knockback,  but the mission objective design in CoH rarely favors its use.

 

The real problem is knockback as a secondary effect and, often, an unreliable one at that.  If you have a power that ONLY does knockback then you can use it when you want to KB something and not use it when you don't.  But when it's attached to your main damage-dealing attacks, NOT using them isn't a good idea.  So you either reposition (costing you time), use KD converters (costing you an enhancement slot), or just do it and accept the consequences good and/or bad.

 

I like using a Nemesis Staff to knock Super Stunners away from the team.  Even if one person chases them down to engage, they'll maybe still only hit that person with their rez and not the whole team.  And certainly I've seen KBers knock enemies INTO the pack too.  There's no question it has its uses... if you can control when you use it.

[Psi-bolt]

59 minutes ago, ZemX said:

 

The real problem is knockback as a secondary effect and, often, an unreliable one at that.  If you have a power that ONLY does knockback then you can use it when you want to KB something and not use it when you don't.  But when it's attached to your main damage-dealing attacks, NOT using them isn't a good idea.  So you either reposition (costing you time), use KD converters (costing you an enhancement slot), or just do it and accept the consequences good and/or bad.

 

This is very true.   ST powers with guaranteed KB are very good and I almost always take them when they are available.  

 

I like the way that you frame the issue as well and it argues strongly in favor of a less onerous means to manage KB in powers where it's not the primary effect.

[PartyKake]

I'm drawing a blank. Which power pool is ST?

[Ulysses Dare]

20 hours ago, PartyKake said:

I'm drawing a blank. Which power pool is ST?

I'm pretty sure ST here refers to "single target" as opposed to AoE, "area of effect".

[Psi-bolt]

I somewhat jokingly need to thank KB for putting my altoholism in remission for awhile.   This last week, especially with Market Crash as the WST, I have been playing my many level 50s and having a blast.   I really wanted my next alt to be some sort of ranged blast having character but I have run out of options that don't have an AoE KB power.  I don't want to pay the slot tax so I've been working on T4s Incarnate powers and earning money.   Nice thing is when I can't wait any longer, the next alt will start with a nice inheritance.

[Scyris]

Knockback is generally hated because well, Say your a melee AT, your kicking somethings butt, then someone ranged knocks the target out of your range, it gets annoying having to chase after it and a overall dps loss for the entire team when you have to chase after a enemy due to a knockback. Thats why its generally disliked, it just makes the fight take longer, for little to no benefit gameplay wise.

[Luminara]

1 hour ago, Scyris said:

Knockback is generally hated because well, Say your a melee AT, your kicking somethings butt, then someone ranged knocks the target out of your range, it gets annoying having to chase after it and a overall dps loss for the entire team when you have to chase after a enemy due to a knockback. Thats why its generally disliked, it just makes the fight take longer, for little to no benefit gameplay wise.

 

You're.

 

 And if you press Tab, something magical can happen.  Try it.

[Maelwys]

28 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 And if you press Tab, something magical can happen.  Try it.

 

[Luminara]

3 minutes ago, Maelwys said:

 

[baster]

On 8/13/2025 at 5:40 AM, Forager said:

In the same way "dam" is a dirty word to a five year old. People with small, underdeveloped brains and limited real world experience don't like it.

 

They will complain about knockback on teams that are steamrolling with zero deaths. It's reflexive. It's not based on anything. They might have some anecdote or something about a bad player and mistakenly assign blame to the powerset.

 

Knockback complainers are like Karens. They're probably playing weak characters. They have poor social skills and they aren't very self aware.

 

Ignore them. Play inspired. 

Very well said. Not much to add to it.

People are hellbend on chasing some sort of mix-maxing perfection of efficiency but most prabobly dont even know why. 

These days people play to cater to their addiction to spreadsheets rather then play for fun.

 

Tx for the inspiration. I will roll a Energy/Energy blaster.

I will advertise to create all KB teams just for fun, and  encourage all of you who love playing for the hell of it to do the same. You never know, we might be able to change the culture givin enough time and participation. Worst case scenario we will stir things up in the global chat for a while.

[srmalloy]

3 hours ago, Scyris said:

Knockback is generally hated because well, Say your a melee AT, your kicking somethings butt, then someone ranged knocks the target out of your range, it gets annoying having to chase after it and a overall dps loss for the entire team when you have to chase after a enemy due to a knockback. Thats why its generally disliked, it just makes the fight take longer, for little to no benefit gameplay wise.

Or just general disruption to the group. I was in a Nemesis raid this morning in Talos Island, and we were all in a moderately tight group on the top of the hill -- both the league and the Nemesis mobs porting in -- and someone dropped a big AoE with knockback (likely Meteor, but I can't be sure), which caused the Nemesis mobs to fly away from the top of the hill and disappear because of the render-limit algorithm for mobs (I've had mobs I was actively fighting in an MSR vanish on me because more Rikti ported in behind me, causing the rendered mob list to be recalculated, but this was objectively different because it was a player's active intervention), breaking targeting and interrupting attacks for most of the league.

[High_Beam]

I know its nine pages in but not a dirty word to me.  its a game mechanic I use and rarely get complaints because I know how to use it.  Fun comes in so many shapes and colors.

[Psi-bolt]

11 hours ago, baster said:

These days people play to cater to their addiction to spreadsheets rather then play for fun.

 

What if someone genuinely enjoys maximizing their DPS, efficiency, etc.?    Why is your idea of fun more valid than theirs?

 

Personally, I'm somewhat in the middle.  I don't do pylon tests and all that nor do I obsessively min-max my characters, but at the end of the day, this is a game.  It's not unreasonable to just want to do really well at the game.  

 

This response doesn't really relate to KB, but more to the general idea that there is a "right" way to have fun.  Back to KB, this is why I would like a KB-KD toggle that you can buy at START.  That way people can decide for themselves how they want to play.   Yes, some team leaders and some teammates will ostracize those who won't use the toggle.  That's OK, that's those players enjoying the game the way they like to play.  Nothing stops the KB player from starting their own team, like you suggest here.

[Oubliette_Red]

On 8/13/2025 at 8:29 AM, MTeague said:

Knockback is hated by some.  "Most" or "Vast Majority", I find doubtful.  Majority of those who post on the forums perhaps, of the entire playerbase... that's another question entirely.  I have been kicked for KB, but it's been rare. Whether that's because the rest of the time people sucked it up because the FF bubbles were worth it to them, or because they honestly didn't give a darn, no one can say.  People may have opinions, but we can't reach back in time and interview those specific players. 

 

Worst case, you can always form a team yourself specifcally saying "KB friendly team forming!" and the haters will most definitely not join.

 

Yeah, I also tend to dismiss arguments/comments that use "Most/Majority" as there is no way they could possibly know that info.

 

I myself am only slightly annoyed to the point of it merely being 'meh' at other people's use of KB, I find it easier to shrug and deal with it than complaining about other's play styles. I love playing on my character's with KB as I tend to use it positionally/situationally, usually in combination with a "Delivery for you Ser!" as I lob or bounce enemies at the tank's/scrapper's feet.

 

[Wobegone]

7 hours ago, Oubliette_Red said:

Yeah, I also tend to dismiss arguments/comments that use "Most/Majority" as there is no way they could possibly know that info.

 

I primarily play melee ATs, and it's not hard to imagine that most melee characters dislike KB, especially AoE KB.  Of course I don't have any statistical proof of that.  Speaking for myself, it's frustrating playing a melee AT when there's tons of KB going on.   

 

The difference for me personally, I don't really hate anything.  If it's a mission team, I just leave the group after the first mission.  If it's a TF, I go my own way and solo groups (which itself bothers some people something fierce).  Fortunately, it's rare to find unrestrained AoE KB as most players who use it are cognizant of it and either slot KB/KD or hover directly above groups, which can help mitigate scatter.  

 

Ultimately, it's a minor issue.  It doesn't happen often, and when it does, quietly removing yourself is the easiest and arguably best solution IMHO.  Why start a fight when you can get a new team/TF in a matter of minutes.  

[tidge]

23 hours ago, Psi-bolt said:

What if someone genuinely enjoys maximizing their DPS, efficiency, etc.?    Why is your idea of fun more valid than theirs?

 

The most "efficient" play is almost certainly solo play. 

[Erratic1]

On 8/19/2025 at 9:51 AM, SuperBear said:

I've given up (given in?) to the Energy Blast hate. I just unslotted them and play other characters. For me personally, I got tired of being questioned every single damn time before even getting the invite. 

 

WTF?!?!? NO!!!!!

 

!!!DO NOT GIVE UP YOUR CHARACTER!!!

 

The discussion may make it seem like the only choice is knockback or no knockback, but the issue is much more responsible/incidental knockback vs playing a scatter bomb. I have Energy Blast using characters (Seismic too). I play on teams. I do not get grief over it.

 

On 8/19/2025 at 9:51 AM, SuperBear said:

Hell, I still get hate for having Meteor and I have to swear on my parent's grave that I have KBKD in order to get the invite.

 

Meteor is the one and only, potentially scatters things (if it doesn't kill them) which is acceptable in the game (well, other than Singularity but that is not an attack so much as an environmental effect). Meteor is just too enjoyable, especially when dropped in a small room full of foes. Why is it acceptable? Because the animation of the growing shadow of doom is just that cool. Go forth and Chicxulub the stuffing out of things!

Edited 4 hours ago by Erratic1

[Skyhawke]

Know what is a dirty word? Ninnyhammer. #27 on https://blog.appewa.com/30-funny-swear-words/

Say it with me...Ninnyhammer...Niiiinnnnnyhaaammmer. 

[skoryy]

/e shuffles into the conversation like Ferris Bueller at the end of the movie.

 

".... You're still here?"

[srmalloy]

11 hours ago, Wobegone said:

I primarily play melee ATs, and it's not hard to imagine that most melee characters dislike KB, especially AoE KB. 

It's not KB qua KB that is disliked, it's pointless KB. I haven't recreated the character on Homecoming, but on Live I had an En/En Blaster that I spent some time learning how to focus her use of knockback. Back when the Controllers would wait for the tank to herd up a spawn before firing off their AoE immobilize, instead of the current meta which seems to be "fire off your AoE immobilize right away, so the spawn is spread across as big an area as possible", I would position her so that the KB from her attacks would push mobs into corners and against walls, tightening up the groups to make it easier for the other heroes to get more of them in their AoEs. Admittedly, even though it's more 'realistic', vectored KB has made clustering mobs more difficult -- for example M30 Grenade used to knock targets away from the shooter, not away from the center of the AoE -- you can't just drop your grenade in the middle of the group to push them away from you, but have to more carefully pick who you shoot at to vector the KB in the direction you want. And with the push for more and more speed, the time spent setting up a focusing KB is time not doing damage, so you often see KB going off in different directions, which spreads out the mobs and cuts into the perception of "gotta go fast".

[ivanhedgehog]

12 hours ago, Wobegone said:

 

I primarily play melee ATs, and it's not hard to imagine that most melee characters dislike KB, especially AoE KB.  Of course I don't have any statistical proof of that.  Speaking for myself, it's frustrating playing a melee AT when there's tons of KB going on.   

 

The difference for me personally, I don't really hate anything.  If it's a mission team, I just leave the group after the first mission.  If it's a TF, I go my own way and solo groups (which itself bothers some people something fierce).  Fortunately, it's rare to find unrestrained AoE KB as most players who use it are cognizant of it and either slot KB/KD or hover directly above groups, which can help mitigate scatter.  

 

Ultimately, it's a minor issue.  It doesn't happen often, and when it does, quietly removing yourself is the easiest and arguably best solution IMHO.  Why start a fight when you can get a new team/TF in a matter of minutes.  

I have noticed on radio teams, when indiscriminate KB starts people leave. TY for the team, bye. You can replace them but there seems to be quite a bit of churn. Good or bad, its their choice too.