Long term interest, replayability, and a controversial suggestion...

[JusticeBowler]

I'm going to try to keep this short, even though in my mind there's a lot to say on this topic. I've been thinking about it since Homecoming launched. How to keep this game fresh when it frozen in carbonite?.. how to get the most out of the experience as long as it is here?.. you can ask the question many different ways.

 

I've been on ITF speedruns, blazing hot PI Radios, and a lot of other high end content now and while I suspect that some of you might never get tired of "melt-mob, move faster to melt-next-mob faster than your teammates" I think there's a maximum limit on that for me (and for most people).

 

I think 8 person Incarnate/GrapeIO game breaking light shows are awesome, but ultimately they are a one trick pony. I'll never stop doing them (they can still clear your mind after a hard day at work), but they can't be much of what I do.

 

I'm putting out the controversial idea that we should self-nerf. No, I'm not telling all the defenders to make heal-bots with no attack powers, or every Blaster slot for secondary effects instead of damage, or MMs not to take pets... though we should be open to more of that sort of thing.

 

I mean, I want us to consider running smaller groups and more concept builds and going back down into the content doing stories, largely ignored parts of the game (Hollows beyond FrostFire, Striga, Croatoa, PvP zones maybe, whatever). It does mean "slowing down the game" while still keeping the difficulty up to a level that is engaging.

 

If I want to play this game, if WE want to play this game, for very long at all, we'll need to explore all the different nooks and crannies again and do so "with a fresh look." So yeah, that means concept toons, smaller teams, following story lines...

 

It means listening to Red and Gold side folks looking for a bit of love. (I'm as bad as anyone else on neglecting this.)

 

At some point I suspect even the folks who are addicted to AE farming just to build better AE farming builds will hit a wall. It would be really something to actually use AE to make interesting "fresh" content to play instead. I've been thinking about this for some time, but I've never once seen someone in LFG advertising for an AE team just for teaming the content and, in fact, the nerfs to farming inadvertently punish anyone who would.

 

I'm not telling anyone how to play. I'm putting my idea out into the forumbase to encourage folks who might be willing to look at the game this way so that there might be enough of this for these "alternatives" to be viable for those who want them. I'd like to put together a 4 person team to do Striga arcs without having having people freak out at the idea. You don't have to join my team, but if I never seed this idea out there, I feel like I'm forever missing something and maybe others will be missing out too.

 

I'm not one of those people who complain that LFG is full of people forming DFBs. I'm not telling anyone to stop doing that (I love DFB in my own way). I'm just trying to open up the space for those who might be interested (or become interested) in something different.

[Legree]

I also suspect that the people who want to experience more obscure story arc content are already doing that, just as small insular groups of friends or solo.

 

You would be right... and I'm discovering I like Perez Park more than I expected to.

[Prototech]

I agree with you, it's all about creating your own 'rules' and enjoying the game within that framework.

 

I'd like ways to be more powerful at early levels though, feel like it's the opposite problem there.

[JusticeBowler]

I think people are playing the game the way they want, and if they aren't playing the way you want you already have the freedom to create groups like you are talking about, so I'm not sure what the topic is for?  Is it to recruit people for special groups to be a part of what you're suggesting? If WE want to play this game for very long at all, we'll probably do that, in the way that's most fun for us, right?

 

I'm spreading ideas around and encouraging everyone to consider some things I've been thinking in private (I assume a lot of other people are ALREADY doing these things too, but I don't know about them until they post).

 

Yeah, sort of recruiting, though not in a formal sense. The only way for their to be posts on the boards other than "best single target DPS builds" is to post posts which aren't that!

 

All the ways to play the game ought to be able to find ways to carve out their spot. I've decided its time to start talking about some of those ways. That's all.

 

As I said, I'm not telling people how to play. Just beginning to give a voice to some ways I'm thinking about playing more often.

[jubakumbi]

IMO, the content locusts do what they do, just like in nature, nothing stops them, they burn themsleves out, it's thier own issue, not something to be fixed.

 

Right now, those who like to get to max level fast and the returning players wanting to regain what they feel they lost are dove-tailing together to make the game even more of a power-level fest than it was on Live.

 

I agree with the outlook the players that don't want to rush things and are here to just enjoy the game are already doing that.

 

It's been very easy for me...I simply don't join teams, I solo most of the time or duo with a friend.

 

From my PoV, it's the extroverts that just 'need' to be with other people and 'make friends online' that are 'pushing' for the full teams and x8/+4.

 

The rest of us are playing the game the way we always did - quietly, with friends, with most all of the chat channels silient, going through the content we like.

[Papaschtroumpf]

There is something fun to having an "OP" build (I run an elec melle / Shield defense build that qualifies even though I have no purples or winter IOs).

You can still challenge yourself. I have the most fun with "bad" teams. In one ITF the rest of the tram faceplanted when the dawrfs/novas surged at the end if the first mission. I ended mopping those up while the rest of the tram waited or trecked to the hospital. It was challenging because there were so many they were actually getting through my defenses and I had to juggle powers and timing right.

 

I often stay in the ITF and clear the roofs by myself if the rest of the team leaves after killing there AV. A roof full of stacking debuffs can be also challenging even for my build, and again it makes it fun.

 

I only solo at x8+4 and while most mobs are still pretty easy (bosses can take a bit to wear down with my build), there are does that can pose a challenge.

 

My best answer is till a tri-form warshade. So powerful yet pretty unforgiving. A mistake can turn the situation o your very quickly. The. You use your self rez, and fix the situation. It's the perfect combination of power and crazy play.

y play. In a word it's CoH "hard mode". :)

 

 

 

[Papaschtroumpf]

I'm even having trouble not levelling too fast while soloing regular content. I cut my teeth on CoH in the old Hollows, when getting to the mission door could be a challenge in itself, but at least you can set your reputation to something challenging for your level even solo, and you can stop earning XP at any time.

 

Going for "Master of" TFs (at +4!) or using challenging restriction settings in Ouro are other ways to make the game interesting.

[Herotu]

The trouble with giving people as much freedom as we have in CoX is that we people will, without other information, take it.

 

I think these self-restrictions are pretty cool - but only if you can bring a community of people with a similar mindset. That's why I would suggest this should be organized on a server/supergroup basis, but I like the fact that it's being brought up on a pan-server thread.

[jubakumbi]

The trouble with giving people as much freedom as we have in CoX is that we people will, without other information, take it.

 

IME, the people that want to use it, use it.

The only _trouble_, IME, is that some _other_ players don't _like_ that.

 

There are plenty of players like the OP suggests, IME/IMO.

These players are simply not 'loud' like the extroverts that want full-steam teams 24x7.

 

If you look around, all the playstyles are here, just like on Live...and just like on Live, many of the 'loud' playstyles are content-locusts.

Changing gamers is tilting at windmills.

[_NOPE_]

Nothing wrong with people exploring different playstyles. Search for "Turtle Man" on these forums for a fun idea. +1 Inf.

[Murcielago]

The other issue is the level curve, with double XP available at all times, the level curve is ridiculously low. It took me 31 days to go from 1-50 and get most of my incarnate slots filled with rare powers with about 75% solo'ing and 25% teaming. Double XP needs to go back to a novelty.

[Legree]

Double XP needs to go back to a novelty.

 

Just don't use it.  One of the best things HC did was make double xp opt-in via the P2W boosts rather than forcing it on everyone.  I haven't used it once since that went live.

 

I admit I do wonder about the long-term population.  What happens to all those 50+ Incarnates when they realise there is no new endgame content on the horizon? (and let's be honest that kind of content is not going to be added any time soon - if ever.)  I think where we are now is peak population, but I also think this game has always been better than many MMOs at adjusting to smaller pops - as anyone who played on a server other than Freedom or Virtue on live can confirm.

[_NOPE_]

Double XP needs to go back to a novelty.

 

Just don't use it.  One of the best things HC did was make double xp opt-in via the P2W boosts rather than forcing it on everyone.

+1

[JusticeBowler]

I admit I do wonder about the long-term population.  What happens to all those 50+ Incarnates when they realise there is no new endgame content on the horizon? (and let's be honest that kind of content is not going to be added any time soon - if ever.)  I think where we are now is peak population, but I also think this game has always been better than many MMOs at adjusting to smaller pops - as anyone who played on a server other than Freedom or Virtue on live can confirm.

 

I've speculated about this in the past. The "locusts," as they say, will burn through everything they can burn and then fly away. But what are the locusts really providing except low cost Rare Salvage via AE farms? That's it. I suspect that HC might have to make some market tweaks if something truly breaks, but they've already put the system in a sweet spot. The thing that balances everything out is that there is a finite amount of INF in the game no matter what anyone does. The only way to get new INF into the economy is to play (missions) and it gets bled out by market and crafting fees. You almost can't mess up as long as that balance is in place.

 

In other words, just because the locusts keep the three Red dots on the server status, it doesn't mean they are really a part of the experience of playing the game on any given evening. Maybe they make it a little easier to get critical mass in a Raid, but I'm not even sure they are at that. I see a lot of lower level toons in Raids and not as many Incarnates as you might think.

 

If there were some very real drop in population that made servers feel bare, they can always merge the lowest to servers together, or do something of the like.

 

I have been thinking that we need an unofficial Villains server and even unofficial Praetorian one, just to encourage people who like to play that content to more easily organize a critical mass. But that's the only thing I worry about when I think about server population.

[FenrisWolf44]

The novelty of this game for me, last time, and this time, was creating a great story for my character, really fleshing out who they are. Taking an age getting the costume just right. Then enjoying the content of the storylines (even though I've done them all before), progressing slowly, taking time to smell the flowers so to speak, going to each and every zone. I don't care about being 'uber' or super rich. As long as I love the character I'm playing, I'm happy to take it slow, the more time to enjoy being with them.

 

Now I know there are many who are like me, just roleplaying, doing all the stories, not worrying about 'Ultimate Power!!!'. While there are those who run 8x TF's 24/7, farm like mad,  have 10 billion influence and a purple in every slot. That would bore the hell out of me, and perhaps how I play would bore them. So each to their own.

 

At the end of the day, people can play how they want. As long as it doesn't affect my enjoyment.

 

The only thing I would say is this, to brand new players, there is so many great stories and content in this game, don't feel you need to hit 50 like yesterday and miss it all. It's about the journey, not the destination.

[I Chaos Games]

Double XP needs to go back to a novelty.

 

The main reason I use double XP because the content gets repetitive. It seems to me in the earlier days of COH there were more directions you can go. The current version you find yourselves with the same mission arcs over and over. I way back when they had Perez park missions. There use to be Boomtown missions. They really should find away to open the other mission arcs from the olden times to add more variety of direction you can go. After so many alts I just to move ahead and by pass missions I did a lot already with just about every other character I made.

 

If there is a way to open up the older mission arcs for sake of variety that would be great.

[Legree]

If there is a way to open up the older mission arcs for sake of variety that would be great.

 

They are still there.  All the origin contacts (Azuria etc) are in City Hall and hand out their missions, and intros to other contacts.  Out of curiousity I've recently skipped all of the newer stuff on one alt, even radio missions, and that alt is cheerfully meandering around Perez Park and doing hunt missions in KR and Steel Canyon.

[JusticeBowler]

If there is a way to open up the older mission arcs for sake of variety that would be great.

 

They are still there.  All the origin contacts (Azuria etc) are in City Hall and hand out their missions, and intros to other contacts.  Out of curiousity I've recently skipped all of the newer stuff on one alt, even radio missions, and that alt is cheerfully meandering around Perez Park and doing hunt missions in KR and Steel Canyon.

 

This. You just have to go in the building and get started. Oh and watch that you don't outlevel the contacts too quickly or you'll miss stuff. The contacts push you off very abruptly at certain levels.

 

But there's a HORDE of content that almost no one touches. I know this because my wife has decided to do the ultimate completist run and get a full bar of red on every contact in the game. Wow... that's a feat I wouldn't try to repeat!

[Robotech_Master]

As someone pointed out in another thread, nearly all the content in the game is "endgame content" now, thanks to Ouroboros. We can, at any time we wish, go back and experience any content we missed--with characters who, thanks to Attuned IO sets and the +5 level differential, are much more capable of handling that content than we would have been on the way up.

 

(There are a few exceptions, like safeguard missions from particular zones, but you can always go to the zone and beg for a team to tag along with to get those.)

 

So I don't see any real reason to slow my roll. I'll happily level up as fast as I can, which thanks to 2XP is just a few days, even without any overt farming. Once my character is "finished," I'll happily run them through any arcs I'm nostalgic for, at any time I feel like.

[Apparition]

The other issue is the level curve, with double XP available at all times, the level curve is ridiculously low. It took me 31 days to go from 1-50 and get most of my incarnate slots filled with rare powers with about 75% solo'ing and 25% teaming. Double XP needs to go back to a novelty.

 

Double XP isn't really a problem.

 

I've leveled two characters from level 1 to 50 so far, with XP turned off every five levels.  At level 4, 9, 14, 19, etc., I disabled XP so I wouldn't outlevel any of the content I wanted to do like Faultline, Striga Isle, etc.  It still only took me three weeks to get both characters to level 50, each.

 

(There are a few exceptions, like safeguard missions from particular zones, but you can always go to the zone and beg for a team to tag along with to get those.)

 

Nope.  Once you get to level 50 and obtain the Hero Slayer badge, a contact opens up that lets you do all of the Mayhem missions.  Same goes for Safeguard missions.  Once you get to level 50 and obtain the Villain Disruptor badge, a contact opens up that lets you do all of the Safeguard missions.

[EggKookoo]

Are there any threads out there that discuss the more "off the beaten path" missions?

[justicebeliever]

Justicebowler (we could form a "Just us Society, wait...stupid DC comics making spend all my money and making teams with "Justice" in the name feel like a knockoff)

 

I love this post...for several reasons...

 

1.) You are suggesting a style of play and how to do it...I'm all in btw - we really do need to team up

2.) You are making all this style, "Self Select", it doesn't ask anyone who wants to play any different have to do so

3.) It requires ZERO dev time

 

But there's a HORDE of content that almost no one touches. I know this because my wife has decided to do the ultimate completist run and get a full bar of red on every contact in the game. Wow... that's a feat I wouldn't try to repeat!

I've been running a character thru ALL the content and all the badges...Every bit...He's been at this for over a week now and is just lvl 9 (I spend most of my time with XP off).  I've been mostly soloing, but just ran Wincott/Flux missions with a team yesterday.  I'm planning to do the final radio mission in KR and then Safeguard mission for Atlas.  I also need to finish Meg Mason's inexhaustible amount of hollows content before lvl 10, tracking on a spreadsheet, so if it really is inexhaustable, I want to at least done every mission once...

 

I've been selling off Inspy's from "Inner Inspiration" and because of that mostly, and to a lesser degree because I end up with hundred's of enhancement that I just sell back, and I'm do 10X more content that most toons do before lvl 10, I've gotten quite a war chest...been crafting IO's and have several sets already, and been playing the market, a little, to take my first million to $20 million.

 

I admit I do wonder about the long-term population.  What happens to all those 50+ Incarnates when they realise there is no new endgame content on the horizon? (and let's be honest that kind of content is not going to be added any time soon - if ever.)  I think where we are now is peak population, but I also think this game has always been better than many MMOs at adjusting to smaller pops - as anyone who played on a server other than Freedom or Virtue on live can confirm.

...

 

If there were some very real drop in population that made servers feel bare, they can always merge the lowest to servers together, or do something of the like.

 

We've already hit Peak population and it's now dropping steadily, but not quickly...interesting read: https://massivelyop.com/2019/07/08/city-of-heroes-homecoming-interview/

[Primantis]

Might I suggest a super group or chat channel for like-minded players.

 

That way everyone can easily play together without having to beg level 50 teams to unslot their judgements.

 

I wouldn't mind dipping in once in awhile myself.

 

 

I've been in four-person groups that wreck content as fast as 8 person groups do, so I'm not sure how effective limiting group size is unless you're talking less than four.

 

 

 

Because once mobs are fried "instantly" adding more team mates doesn't add much to killing speed. Just more people to race against to try and trigger your nuke first or lingering back and feeling useless. That point isn't all that hard to reach either, with incarnate powers and decked out builds.

 

When such a point is reached its best for the team to split up if possible, if you want to maximize clear times.

[Machariel]

As someone who enjoys the high-level content and runs level 50 radio and tip missions just to relax I resent being called a "Locust."

 

If you want to run low- and mid- level content, just start a team and post in LFG.  It's not rocket science?

[marcussmythe]

If there is a way to open up the older mission arcs for sake of variety that would be great.

 

They are still there.  All the origin contacts (Azuria etc) are in City Hall and hand out their missions, and intros to other contacts.  Out of curiousity I've recently skipped all of the newer stuff on one alt, even radio missions, and that alt is cheerfully meandering around Perez Park and doing hunt missions in KR and Steel Canyon.

 

This. You just have to go in the building and get started. Oh and watch that you don't outlevel the contacts too quickly or you'll miss stuff. The contacts push you off very abruptly at certain levels.

 

But there's a HORDE of content that almost no one touches. I know this because my wife has decided to do the ultimate completist run and get a full bar of red on every contact in the game. Wow... that's a feat I wouldn't try to repeat!

 

My regards and best wishes to your wife.  I tried this, turning off xps to stall before I outleveled contacts, and just could not do it.