[Lore Question] Is Batallion the Nictus Fleet?

[ThatGuyCDude]

I was playing through Mot's storyline again, and Dream Doctor said something which made me pause.  The gist of it was "Twilight Son sold out his own race to Batallion".

Is Batallion the Nictus Fleet?  Mender Lazarus has you subvert the 5th Column to help the Council grow, which leads into Arakhn being able to manufacture her devices to siphon energy out of the Kheldians to feed the Nictus (Moonfire TF).  That sounds an AWFUL lot like what Twilight Son described as the Khelds being fuel for Batallion's fleet.  Then you've got the whole deal with the Void Hunters disappearing, and they too herald what's to come as if they're talking about Batallion... but they're Nictus agents, too.  Finally, in the flash forward to unlock the Alpha Slot, the player is confronted with echoes of adversaries they've fought in the past... something a Nictus would be able to do after having a fragment in such a host (that's the whole deal with the Nova and Dwarf forms, after all).

These factors are well-correlated with the goals of the Nictus, and it feels like Ouroboros is facilitating it.  So again, is 'the coming storm' actually the Nictus invasion and is Ouroboros actually working to facilitate it?  Or am I overlooking something obvious?  Is it simply Dream Doctor mudslinging because he's magic and Ouroboros is tech?

[Uun]

Battalion is an alien force, but I don't think its origin has been revealed.

 

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/The_Coming_Storm

[Snarky]

[El D]

It's certainly possible that those threads were all going to weave together for whatever the Battalion was going to be for the next phase of CoH incarnate endgame, especially with so many Live dev AMA comments about using prior contacts and content as 'secret Battalion agents.' Though as with anything writing-wise back then it was all nebulous until the issue actually went live, and certainly isn't any kind of requirement now. IMO I'm glad that avenue never got enshrined as canon. It'd be far too convenient if every space plot tied into the Battalion. The Shivans as undead jello attack dogs, sure, but leaving the Nictus as their own thing makes them so much more compelling. Reading the Lore AMAs about the loose plans for the Battalion and the Dimensionless and Ascension and the never-ending string of yet more powerful cosmic-religious bad guys just makes me think of Destiny 2, and not in a good way (insert 'but how would it ever be for Destiny 2?' joke here). The best of CoH's arcs and content is the stuff that isn't colossal in scope and trying to make every player character the singular super-ultra-mega hero of the omniverse.

[Scarlet Shocker]

I'd be a little careful of the AMAs post-Sunset. I honestly believe that some of it was extremely... mischeivous. Matt Miller's comment that Lady Grey was a sleeper agent for example, which stuck in my mind at the time as very odd.

 

I have a very strong feeling that there were only the barest bones of an idea about what the Battalion actually were, or their back story and there was nothing concrete sketched out in detail so far as I've ever seen so likely what was mooted would have changed drastically long before it went live. 

 

We can imagine what might have been or was can trust our existing devs to take the game in whatever direction they deem fit. 

 

Personally I wouldn't object if they threw out a lot of what went before and came up with their own thing. 

[Snarky]

30 minutes ago, El D said:

It's certainly possible that those threads were all going to weave together for whatever the Battalion was going to be for the next phase of CoH incarnate endgame, especially with so many Live dev AMA comments about using prior contacts and content as 'secret Battalion agents.' Though as with anything writing-wise back then it was all nebulous until the issue actually went live, and certainly isn't any kind of requirement now. IMO I'm glad that avenue never got enshrined as canon. It'd be far too convenient if every space plot tied into the Battalion. The Shivans as undead jello attack dogs, sure, but leaving the Nictus as their own thing makes them so much more compelling. Reading the Lore AMAs about the loose plans for the Battalion and the Dimensionless and Ascension and the never-ending string of yet more powerful cosmic-religious bad guys just makes me think of Destiny 2, and not in a good way (insert 'but how would it ever be for Destiny 2?' joke here). The best of CoH's arcs and content is the stuff that isn't colossal in scope and trying to make every player character the singular super-ultra-mega hero of the omniverse.

Agreed.  I hate WoW and everyone gets to stand and be “Speaker for the Horde..”.  Really?  Cause you just said that to the Troll standing here a second ago

 

I do like the Incarnate Lore in game.  We are all seeking pieces of the path the Well laid out.  So it makes sense there are hundreds l, thousands of us.  The ones with more direct contact with the Well are explained in the Lore and are the big names.  That feels right, even if the writing is not perfect 

Edited September 5 by Snarky

[Jacke]

Just remember, there are double agents.  But going triple is suicide.

 

Be seeing you.

[tidge]

1 hour ago, Jacke said:

Just remember, there are double agents Lindys.  But going triple is suicide.

 

[LegionAlpha]

I take it you haven't done Adelard Ziegler in KH or Sister Valeria in Roman Zone arcs yet? 

 

[ThatGuyCDude]

51 minutes ago, LegionAlpha said:

I take it you haven't done Adelard Ziegler in KH or Sister Valeria in Roman Zone arcs yet? 

 

I have, that's why I mentioned the Void Hunters heralding what sounded like Batallion's invasion.  Evidently I missed the bonus objective connection to the Valeria story, perhaps because I did Ziegler first (I read about it on the unofficial Wiki just now; I've been thinning out the contacts list blind and CoX has this problem where contacts are dumped into your menu with no context).

That's part of my point, though, the Homecoming narrative seems to be reinforcing this premise that the Nictus advance *is* Batallion.  And I'm getting this unsettling vibe that the Well of the Furies is itself an ancient Nictus (and all these incarnate fragments are what gave it the material data to do what it does in Remiel's future).  But I'm also getting the feeling that the dots I'm connecting are a mirage, so I'd like to discuss it more.

@Snarky, I absolutely agree that MMO plots singling out a solitary character are frustrating and annoying.  We're playing as a crowd, we absolutely should be a member of the crowd.  Redside bothers me in that regard with the whole "your battle with Recluse destroyed the world" plot; I much prefer stories where we're but one cog in a complicated plot, rather than our solitary character being the lynch-pin.

@Scarlet Shocker, while I appreciate new content taking on the flavor of a new writing staff, I'd hate for existing content to just be disregarded moving forward.  I'd rather the whole Batallion plot rot on the vine than twist in a direction that's inconsistent with what's already been established.  But that's what I'm talking about here; the direction the Homecoming content is taking feels very consistent with what was present at shutdown, which is why I want to know if I'm reading it correctly or seeing things that aren't there.

Edited September 5 by ThatGuyCDude
Responding to more of the thread

[Scarlet Shocker]

10 minutes ago, ThatGuyCDude said:

@Scarlet Shocker, while I appreciate new content taking on the flavor of a new writing staff, I'd hate for existing content to just be disregarded moving forward.  I'd rather the whole Batallion plot rot on the vine than twist in a direction that's inconsistent with what's already been established.  But that's what I'm talking about here; the direction the Homecoming content is taking feels very consistent with what was present at shutdown, which is why I want to know if I'm reading it correctly or seeing things that aren't there.

 

I hear you. I wasn't proposing a retcon - although that has happened more than once in this game, many times. The whole Praetorian arc has had several reworks over the years before GR's release. 

 

But yes, I wouldn't mind it withering on the proverbial vine and the team moving in a different direction. 

 

That said I actually have more confidence in our new devs than the OG devs, simply because our new team only have to worry about the player base and the hallowed lore of our City. No publisher to please, no profits to turn, just write great stuffs that fits with the content and ambience we have now. I say let them have at it. I trust them to deliver. 

[Techwright]

On 9/5/2025 at 4:18 PM, Scarlet Shocker said:

 

I hear you. I wasn't proposing a retcon - although that has happened more than once in this game, many times.

 

 

As I continue to read of confusing bits, half-baked concepts, etc. from the original game, I've lately been leaning into the idea of a retcon, not on the scale of say, a DC Comics "Crisis" arc, but more like a "Flashpoint": much stays the same, but those troublesome things the Homecoming team doesn't have the time or resources to craft (or worse, fix) get pruned, freeing the Homecoming team to lay down a neater, tighter future on a scale they can work with, and that still advances the game in a satisfying way.

[Scarlet Shocker]

5 hours ago, Techwright said:

 

As I continue to read of confusing bits, half-baked concepts, etc. from the original game, I've lately been leaning into the idea of a retcon, not on the scale of say, a DC Comics "Crisis" arc, but more like a "Flashpoint": much stays the same, but those troublesome things the Homecoming team doesn't have the time or resources to craft (or worse, fix) get pruned, freeing the Homecoming team to lay down a neater, tighter future on a scale they can work with, and that still advances the game in a satisfying way.

 

Personally I'd love a "rationalization" sweep through the game. Mostly the biggest issues I have are with the GR expansion - and TPN still gets my goat. Most of the content is ok if not great but some is just downright crap but that's the subject for its own thread I reckon. 

 

 

[Jiro Ito]

On 9/4/2025 at 10:29 PM, ThatGuyCDude said:

I was playing through Mot's storyline again, and Dream Doctor said something which made me pause.  The gist of it was "Twilight Son sold out his own race to Batallion".

Is Batallion the Nictus Fleet?  Mender Lazarus has you subvert the 5th Column to help the Council grow, which leads into Arakhn being able to manufacture her devices to siphon energy out of the Kheldians to feed the Nictus (Moonfire TF).  That sounds an AWFUL lot like what Twilight Son described as the Khelds being fuel for Batallion's fleet.  Then you've got the whole deal with the Void Hunters disappearing, and they too herald what's to come as if they're talking about Batallion... but they're Nictus agents, too.  Finally, in the flash forward to unlock the Alpha Slot, the player is confronted with echoes of adversaries they've fought in the past... something a Nictus would be able to do after having a fragment in such a host (that's the whole deal with the Nova and Dwarf forms, after all).

These factors are well-correlated with the goals of the Nictus, and it feels like Ouroboros is facilitating it.  So again, is 'the coming storm' actually the Nictus invasion and is Ouroboros actually working to facilitate it?  Or am I overlooking something obvious?  Is it simply Dream Doctor mudslinging because he's magic and Ouroboros is tech?

 

The original intent was Twilight Son sold out the rest of the Kheldians to be fuel for the Battalion fleet.

 

Quote

Can you publish the entire lore bible you apparently had for Kheldians, pretty please?

 

MM: Sorry no. Spoiler alert: They all end up as fuel for Battalion, except for one. The End.

 

I feel like Homecoming is changing the narrative to be something more like the Nictus are the Coming Storm, as the scope of what's required for Battalion, additional incarnate powers, Dream Doctor using the Dagger of Jocus to open a doorway to the Shadow Shard and fuse with Rularuu to eat the Battalion might be a little outside Homecoming's capacity.  Something with the Nictus actually being the Storm seems more doable.

 

[kelika2]

my headcanon is that the battalion are actually people trying to free other lifeforms from the grip of the well

 

join a level 44 or lower ITF to see what i mean

[Skyhawke]

Maybe the Battalion are the friends we make along the way?

[Ironblade]

On 9/5/2025 at 11:23 AM, Snarky said:

I do like the Incarnate Lore in game.  We are all seeking pieces of the path the Well laid out.  So it makes sense there are hundreds l, thousands of us.  The ones with more direct contact with the Well are explained in the Lore and are the big names.  That feels right, even if the writing is not perfect 

 

Yes, but with one major disappointment.  When you talk to Prometheus, you can ask him about so many different things . . . .

We should have an option to ask, "How's the liver doing?"

[Greycat]

On 9/5/2025 at 12:29 AM, ThatGuyCDude said:

I was playing through Mot's storyline again, and Dream Doctor said something which made me pause.  The gist of it was "Twilight Son sold out his own race to Batallion".

Is Batallion the Nictus Fleet?  

 

No.

 

The battalion are unrelated, and tend to be focused on Wells. The Nictus are generally just trying to survive. If they had the strength to be the Battalion, they wouldn't be running from the Peacebringers.  Yes, I know the twilight's son bit, which has always been a bit ridiculous for a species that can travel the way they do. 

 

The Well is also not a Nictus. The Wells, even with retcons, have been fairly explained. (As well as the other unseen power levels and plans that were had - and I've got to say I'm rather glad we didn't get there - around them. I mean, eventually getting to "the cosmic aspects of order and chaos?" Yet we can't go to ... underwater, or England, or Egypt... Bleh.) The wells are, in essence, created ("involuntarily," I'll say, versus consciously) by the related species that have them.