When a tank isn't a tank

[tidge]

34 minutes ago, lemming said:

Turtledove replaying WW2 in various ways comes to mind.  I'm forgetting who it was, but some series I read, and it wasn't plot, but some description of a fight and it was nearly an exact quote of some other fight.

 

When this happens in the same book, I blame the editor (or "publisher's reader") as much as I blame the writer. I suppose I can absolve the editor/publisher and assign all of my annoyance to the author when the author is clearly just filling pages with slop. As an example, I'm reminded of Dan Brown's DaVinci Code which has the exact scene play out several consecutive chapters as the characters visit different sites (one immediately after the previous). This was clearly Dan Brown just "getting away with it." and it was the last book of his I read similar to Kevin J. Anderson (see above)... when the author breaks the illusion that they care about their craft for me, I don't have to waste any more of myself on their work.

[WuTang]

@Diantaneis like a community gatherer! Look at how he brought us all together to.....you know what....

 

23 hours ago, Ukase said:

But after a while, this begins to look like trolling

Oh @Diantane IS 100% trolling.

 

I took @Diantane serious once, never again. He is a master at trolls. He peppers in enough factually plausible info to get people (that don't know) to think about what he's saying, but also he manages to get people that do know to reply with what is obvious to anyone that's played COH for 6 months or longer.

 

I won't address the troll's troll other than to say, for anyone that's new and might be reading this thread, @Diantane is always wrong, do not listen to nor take in a word they typed.

 

I will, however, say this, ALSO, I read all of @Diantane's threads. Why? Because they are always a bad take and generally the responses are gold.

 

Edited Tuesday at 01:15 PM by WuTang

[lemming]

3 hours ago, WuTang said:

I will, however, say this, ALSO, I read all of @Diantane's threads. Why? Because they are always a bad take and generally the responses are gold.

Yep.   And occasionly there will be a glimmer of good facts by someone stating why Diantane is wrong.   "If you can't be a good example, be a warning." 

[Without_Pause]

On 11/2/2025 at 2:33 PM, Diantane said:

Taking the alpha is a tank's primary task.

Within the list of wrong, this begs the question of what is a tank. Because a Brute using SOs can tank in all of the ways a Tanker can.. I have Scrappers who can take alpha with various amounts of support. I have Scrappers who solo on +3x8. I have and have used various support characters who can take/minimize alpha with little to no real support. I have a controller who can solo 'any map' at +3x8 and doing so not at max difficulty is more about speed than safety. Last night I did a mission where a mob was right on top of the portal I went through and didn't die. So if a non-Tanker can do the "tank's primary role," then yes, a Tanker can add in attacks and be fine.

[Troo]

General descriptions:

The Tanker can take it and dish it out all at once. The Tanker primarily can absorb vast amounts of damage, and hold his own in a fist fight. But the Tanker lacks any long range punch. The Tanker would prefer just to charge straight ahead anyway.

 

The Scrapper is a fierce melee combatant. In hand to hand, no other hero can compare. But the Scrapper is not as resilient as the Tanker, and might find himself in a little trouble if he heedlessly wades into combat. The Scrapper's aptitude for melee is countered by a total lack of long distance attacks. Scrappers possess Critical strike capability. Their melee attacks have a chance to sometimes do double damage.

 

Brutes live to fight, and as a Brute you revel in hand-to-hand combat. With strong offensive power sets to inflict pain and impressive defenses to take it, you're the best there is in a straight fight. Protracted battles only makes you mad, and the madder you get, the more damaging your attacks become. You do lack ranged attacks, which could leave you vulnerable to hit and run tactics without some allies to cover you.

 

As characters progress:

Primaries -vs- Secondaries matter

General roles can begin to overlap with Invention Origin enhancements and Epic/Patron Power Pools

Lines can be further blurred or even erased by Incarnate powers.

Choices | Consequences

[MoonSheep]

38 minutes ago, Troo said:

General descriptions:

The Tanker can take it and dish it out all at once. The Tanker primarily can absorb vast amounts of damage, and hold his own in a fist fight. But the Tanker lacks any long range punch. The Tanker would prefer just to charge straight ahead anyway.

 

The Scrapper is a fierce melee combatant. In hand to hand, no other hero can compare. But the Scrapper is not as resilient as the Tanker, and might find himself in a little trouble if he heedlessly wades into combat. The Scrapper's aptitude for melee is countered by a total lack of long distance attacks. Scrappers possess Critical strike capability. Their melee attacks have a chance to sometimes do double damage.

 

Brutes live to fight, and as a Brute you revel in hand-to-hand combat. With strong offensive power sets to inflict pain and impressive defenses to take it, you're the best there is in a straight fight. Protracted battles only makes you mad, and the madder you get, the more damaging your attacks become. You do lack ranged attacks, which could leave you vulnerable to hit and run tactics without some allies to cover you.

 

As characters progress:

Primaries -vs- Secondaries matter

General roles can begin to overlap with Invention Origin enhancements and Epic/Patron Power Pools

Lines can be further blurred or even erased by Incarnate powers.

Choices | Consequences

 

with this in mind, diantanes post isn’t that unreasonable. people like to pile on simply for the fun of it

[catsi563]

2 hours ago, Without_Pause said:

Within the list of wrong, this begs the question of what is a tank. Because a Brute using SOs can tank in all of the ways a Tanker can.. I have Scrappers who can take alpha with various amounts of support. I have Scrappers who solo on +3x8. I have and have used various support characters who can take/minimize alpha with little to no real support. I have a controller who can solo 'any map' at +3x8 and doing so not at max difficulty is more about speed than safety. Last night I did a mission where a mob was right on top of the portal I went through and didn't die. So if a non-Tanker can do the "tank's primary role," then yes, a Tanker can add in attacks and be fine.

let me field this one

 

so a Tank and this is coming from someone whose been tanking in City since launch on live and was there from the days of the immobile provoke monkeys to  todays armored giants

 

A tank is designed to take punishment and to control aggro and not necessarily in that order, A tanks design is to use their attacks to keep mobs focused on them and not on their softer teammates and in this thanks to the upgraded gauntlet they excell. when combined with their resistances and defenses and their attacks often having various controls ie knockbacks ups stuns slows etc etc or even in fires case just raw damage they protect

 

A brute as you properly kitted out CANNOT tank in all the ways a tank can and can never hold the attention of an entire room like a tank can they lack the gauntlet abilities to provoke aggro like a tank can 

 

BUT they can do a decent job in a pinch depsite that not being their original intent when COV came out, brutes were original the damage dealers of COV they were meant to go into a fight and the longer a fight went on the more damage they did they werent meant to tank though only in much the same way scarppers werent meant to tank but do have the ability to provoke Brutes use their taunt because they WANT badguys swining at them because it boosts their damage but they cant take the punishment a tank can even over an extended period of time

the other ats you mention can take alphas for sure ive got  defender who can literally heal through most alphas and a D4 who most baddies cant hit. but theyre not meant to tank and they sure as heck cant control a room like a tank can

 

and yes scrappers can solo entire maps because theyre designed with the best defense is to slap the stupid out of everything they come across and yes they have some defenses but no scrapper is going to tank everything all the time theyre not built to tank THAT much damage

 

So in

[ZemX]

3 hours ago, MoonSheep said:

with this in mind, diantanes post isn’t that unreasonable. people like to pile on simply for the fun of it

 

None of that makes what he said "reasonable".   Merely the part where he says most tanker powersets will fail and can't be considered a real tank... is where you laugh him out of the forum.  Nobody saying that has any idea how tankers or tanking actually works in this game.

[Psyonico]

1 hour ago, ZemX said:

None of that makes what he said "reasonable".   Merely the part where he says most tanker powersets will fail and can't be considered a real tank...

Agreed.  I've got every armor set except Psionic to 50 and most armor sets have a tank at 50.  I would happily put any of my level 50 tanks against his Rad/ice in a survivability test and can guarantee I'd come out ahead.

[electric_emu]

My first experience with this particular poster, but even before reading the replies up until now he overextended with the bit about Invuln.  What is it the kids say now, "bait used to be believable"?

[Without_Pause]

5 hours ago, Psyonico said:

Agreed.  I've got every armor set except Psionic to 50 and most armor sets have a tank at 50.  I would happily put any of my level 50 tanks against his Rad/ice in a survivability test and can guarantee I'd come out ahead.

IIRC, they only use SOs. Outperforming the OP is such a low bar I can't imagine tripping over it. 

[Diantane]

Yes, it's been quite a while since i made any posts here (that's because I would be flamed reguardless of anything that I posted - good or bad). No contructive critizism. No good replies. Just flames. A good player can only take so much.

 

There seems to be some new players on the forums because this time I got some decent replies.

 

I have been away for a few months. This is for two reasons. One is I have 266 alts. It's very tough finding something that I haven't ever played before. The other is because I started an "Adult Gaming Group" and we play many co-op games together:

Satisfactory, Valheim, Foundry, The Planet Crafters, Eden Crafter, Raft, Astroneer, Scrap Mechanic, Vocanoids, ARK and many others.

[Neiska]

 

Given your forum history, I am 100% convinced you are reaction farming.

[Luminara]

11 minutes ago, Diantane said:

Yes, it's been quite a while since i made any posts here (that's because I would be flamed reguardless of anything that I posted - good or bad).

 

Objectively speaking, you've never posted anything "good".  You've given bad build advice, bad teaming advice, complained about teammates not worshipping your every word, "lectured" the forums about failing to adhere to the outdated and irrelevant trinity style, spazzed out because you logged into the wrong character and thought your Incarnate progress had been reset... twice, went on a tear because you don't think other players should be able to set their own prices on things they sell on the market, rambled like someone with dementia...

 

Nothing helpful.  Not a single thing that's been accurate, or useful.  Not even a positive attitude.  You're one of the most obtuse, unhelpful people I've ever seen on the forums.  On any forums.

 

21 minutes ago, Diantane said:

No contructive critizism. No good replies.

 

Anyone perusing your post history will see that most of the responses have been constructive and helpful.  People have been trying to help you for as long as you've been posting.  Every time, it's like talking to a wall.

 

My sincere apologies to any walls who read that.  It was unfair of me to make that comparison.

 

And that sums up your contribution to the forums.  You're a running joke.  Congratulations?

[Glacier Peak]

1 hour ago, Diantane said:

 A good player can only take so much.

[Psyonico]

@Glacier Peak beat me to it.

[Jacke]

5 hours ago, Diantane said:

Yes, it's been quite a while since i made any posts here (that's because I would be flamed reguardless of anything that I posted - good or bad). No contructive critizism. No good replies. Just flames. A good player can only take so much.

 

Herm....

 

I'm a Retired Royal Canadian Armoured Corps soldier.  I also know a lot of history.

 

The Tank has been with us over a Century and I think it's never gone 10 years but that what the particular best working mix of features, including the Required 3 of Firepower, Protection, and Mobility, has changed.

 

Now Drone Warfare has burst upon the Battlefield.  Some are saying this is finally The End of The Tank.  Just as in other times and places, it's been The End of the Aerial Dogfight.  Or the end of the Horse.  Not so.  Every Battlefield Technology that has an effective use on the Battlefield and hasn't been overwhelmingly neutralised or replaced in what it provides is still got some niche of usefulness.  Every Weapon (some World War 1 troops were armed with Gladius as well as Rifles for Trench Fighting) and ever War Technology.  The Tank and Tanker and those who fight Tanks will continue to evolve to the form and doctrine that is most appropriate for providing Mobile Protected Firepower at the Forward Edge of the Battlefield.

 

In the 1980's before I learned about Tanks, I learned Sneak-and-Peak Recce much as it was practiced in World War 2.  Recce hasn't had the changes forced upon it as much as Tanks have, but there are changes and Recce soldiers will have adapted.  Because if you don't adapt, you find out the hard way that Today's War is significantly different from what you trained for.

 

Don't get better at fighting the Last War.  Get better at fighting War as it is and as it seems to be changing.  Always observe.  Always be willing to consider adapting.

 

@Diantane, I figure you honestly feel strongly about what you post.  You wouldn't keep doing it so much if you didn't.

 

What I suggest to you is your view of City of Heroes is a bit askew.  I don't know why, but it's askew enough and you keep posting about askew views that don't get any respect.

 

I suggest to you it's time, as the Infantry say after finishing an Assault upon a Position (or if they failed at the Assault too), to Suck Back and Reload (catch your breath, refill magazines, drink water, and the leaders and senior Infanteers reassess the battlefield).

• Play the game to have fun.
• Observe more.
• Read more here in the Forums.
  • Especially if there's a back-and-forth.
• Think more.
• Notice who seems to be switched on about what they say.

Give it time.  There's many cases in Military History of being caught short by circumstance leading to strong reversals.  And of those caught in those reversals reassessing and fixing things.