page 3 [FOCUSED FEEDBACK] Super Strength Adjustments

[ScarySai]

Just now, Erratic1 said:

 

Only if you ignore what people are saying and make up--like you did--what the real point is.

The lack of drive to provide any evidence is very telling.

 

When I'm 100% right, I record it, so even the devs can't deny it.

[Bill Z Bubba]

1 minute ago, Erratic1 said:

Only if you ignore what people are saying and make up--like you did--what the real point is.

 

The only "real point" any of those against the change have posted boils down to "waah, my panties hurt, don't nerf my precious."

[Sebastian]

2 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Hyrbids sets do exist and they get double-tapped by this change. As it is on live, defense sets get hit the worst, hybrid next and resistance sets laugh and laugh and laugh.

With the change, hybrid sets get double-tapped, defense gets hit and resistance gets hit.

 

And absolutely none of this hobbles rage. It still cruises along at +140% damage and +40% tohit for 50 seconds out of every 60 when double-stacked. On tanks.

 

Arguing against splitting the pain of the crash is moronic, myopic, selfish, and short-sighted.

-20% res doesn’t hobble rage ?

 

no it doesn’t, it knee caps it, servers its spine and then ties concrete cinder blocks to its ankles and throws it overboard. 
 

(Thumbs down react to this if you’re one of those clueless people who despite seeing ingame results proving rage isn’t OP and doesn’t need a nerf whines about it anyway  for no reason) 

Edited December 19 by Sebastian

[Spaghetti Betty]

I'm not even really against increasing the severity of the crash, just not making it a death sentence for most builds that will be running it, besides tower Tanks! I don't even really disagree that the main draw of Rage is that advanced players have learned to circumvent the shortcomings of SS by rocking out pools/epics to fill out their garbage attack chain. That's not really "ideal" for the health of a set. I'm just in the camp that there are other ways to make the Rage user virtually useless for those 10 seconds without also piledriving them head first into a wood chipper!

 

It's been stated over and over again that UM probably is the better option moving forward for nearly all cases, since it 1. opens up the set to more of the playerbase and 2. alleviates the crutch of gimping yourself every 10 seconds when the rest of your team is running full throttle at all times!

 

I agree with Sai that if the intention is to just deal away with Rage, then they should rip the bandaid off instead of targeting it with convoluted numbers changes, because that right there is what's sparking so much debate. It feels like the difference between telling a worker "You're fired" and "You are being promoted to Customer".

 

Is Rage fun? Yes! Is it a little bit of a s***-cannon that's running on a pretty tired legacy design philosophy? Absolutely!

Am I going to have fun respeccing all of my SS users to account for UM? Probably no! I kind of wish it just replaced Rage at this point so I don't have to bother!

[Wavicle]

I have never died to the rage crash. Ever. Not once. It has never happened.

 

And to be frank, I don’t think I’m that good a player. If it’s not killing me then it’s not killing anyone.

[Bill Z Bubba]

35 minutes ago, Sebastian said:

(Thumbs down react to this if you’re one of those clueless people who despite seeing ingame results proving rage isn’t OP and doesn’t need a nerf whines about it anyway  for no reason) 

 

Oh look, more whining in an edit after a reaction was placed. I'm shocked. Really.

[Spaghetti Betty]

1 minute ago, Wavicle said:

I have never died to the rage crash. Ever. Not once. It has never happened.

 

And to be frank, I don’t think I’m that good a player. If it’s not killing me then it’s not killing anyone.

Congrats! What usually ends up killing me is the double whammy of Rage and Hasten crashing at the same time and dropping all of my toggles. I can't say the same for my Shield/SS Tank, though. It ate enough dirt during crashes that I ended up shelving it.

[Championess]

Sheesh 20+ pages on Super Strength?!

 

This tells me HC underestimated how many grandpas would get into their feelings whose first character were likely some sort of Super Strength Superman homage.

 

This whole topic comes off like this:

[Wavicle]

13 minutes ago, Spaghetti Betty said:

Congrats! What usually ends up killing me is the double whammy of Rage and Hasten crashing at the same time and dropping all of my toggles. I can't say the same for my Shield/SS Tank, though. It ate enough dirt during crashes that I ended up shelving it.

That’s funny because nowhere in this thread has anyone mentioned the endurance crash as far as I have seen. They all keep going on about defense and damage resistance penalties that honestly I barely notice on any build.

[Major_Decoy]

10 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

That’s funny because nowhere in this thread has anyone mentioned the endurance crash as far as I have seen. They all keep going on about defense and damage resistance penalties that honestly I barely notice on any build.

Endurance is the first thing I commented on when I was running an Super Reflexes/Super Strength tank to see what it was like.

 

Endurance is also why Electric Armour/Super Strength seemed viable. It almost made me want to play one. (Edit: It's very endurance expensive, but the combination of double stacked rage with Focused Accuracy is really helpful against the Carnival of Shadows. I was whiffing a lot without Focused Accuracy active)

Edited December 19 by Major_Decoy

[Eirei07]

10 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

I have never died to the rage crash. Ever. Not once. It has never happened.

 

And to be frank, I don’t think I’m that good a player. If it’s not killing me then it’s not killing anyone.

Well, my SS/Invul Brute is gonna take more than double the amount of damage during crashes going forward, so I’ll let ya know how that statement holds up. *thumbsup*

 

My SS/Fire Brute farmer toon drops during crashes pretty regularly, especially with as Betty mentioned, the crash coinciding with the end crash from Hasten. So much that I have Rise of the Phoenix just so I don’t need as much Awaken insp. With this toon, I can just switch to UM, and enjoy a smoother ride and faster clear times.

[Eirei07]

17 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

That’s funny because nowhere in this thread has anyone mentioned the endurance crash as far as I have seen. They all keep going on about defense and damage resistance penalties that honestly I barely notice on any build.

I did mention the end crash, btw. If anything, I think it’s the ppl defending the nerf that are ignoring its existence.

[Wavicle]

3 minutes ago, Eirei07 said:

I did mention the end crash, btw. If anything, I think it’s the ppl defending the nerf that are ignoring its existence.

Because it isn’t changing at all so it’s not relevant. And it’s not a nerf. Rage is being laterally shifted. There’s no Nerf involved.

Edited December 19 by Wavicle

[Major_Decoy]

3 minutes ago, Eirei07 said:

I did mention the end crash, btw. If anything, I think it’s the ppl defending the nerf that are ignoring its existence.

I don't like characterizing it as a nerf, but long ago I decided I'd rather play Super Strength without Rage than have to deal with crash and taking a power that didn't fit the concept.

 

When they were previously talking about getting rid of the crash if you only used one stack of rage at a time, I did briefly consider taking it, but since it never made the servers, I never had to wrestle with the "it's not my concept" decision.

[Major_Decoy]

2 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

Because it isn’t changing at all so it’s not relevant. And it’s not a nerf. Rage is being laterally shifted. There’s no Nerf involved.

 

It is kind of a nerf. I mean, if we look at the 0 defense 0 resistance Tank:

 

-20% defense:

Hit 70 times for 100 damage = 7000 damage

 

-10% defense -20 resistance

Hit 60 times for 120 damage = 7200 damage

[aethereal]

3 minutes ago, Major_Decoy said:

I don't like characterizing it as a nerf, but long ago I decided I'd rather play Super Strength without Rage than have to deal with crash and taking a power that didn't fit the concept.

 

When they were previously talking about getting rid of the crash if you only used one stack of rage at a time, I did briefly consider taking it, but since it never made the servers, I never had to wrestle with the "it's not my concept" decision.

So, like, you're overjoyed by this change?  You'll take Unleashed Might and not care about whether the Rage crash is worse or better because you don't take Rage?  Just trying to make sure I'm understanding you here.

[Eirei07]

4 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

Because it isn’t changing at all so it’s not relevant. And it’s not a nerf. Rage is being laterally shifted. There’s no Nerf involved.

The End crash? I think it’s pretty relevant, considering that you’re arguing to make the Rage crash worse than it already is.

 

It *is* a nerf. I don’t think that’s disputable at this point in the conversation.

[Major_Decoy]

7 minutes ago, aethereal said:

So, like, you're overjoyed by this change?  You'll take Unleashed Might and not care about whether the Rage crash is worse or better because you don't take Rage?  Just trying to make sure I'm understanding you here.

 

I kind of like Unleashed Might. I'll probably end up taking that on my Rageless Super Strength tank if it makes it to the Homecoming Live servers. 

 

I think the Rage crash is unnecessarily punitive.

 

I think that the people complaining "We shouldn't change the rage crash to penalize defense and resistance equally" are making a very bad argument. I think that if Rage is an option is should be viable for both defensive and resistance builds. I believe you can make the argument "Rage is good as it is now" or "The crash is awful" but trying to argue both doesn't work.

Edited December 19 by Major_Decoy

[Wavicle]

6 minutes ago, Eirei07 said:

It *is* a nerf. I don’t think that’s disputable at this point in the conversation.

“At this point in the conversation“?

 

Just repeating yourself a bunch doesn’t make you right. It may be a Nerf for some builds, but it’s a buff for others. That’s the definition of a lateral change.

[Eirei07]

2 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

“At this point in the conversation“?

 

Just repeating yourself a bunch doesn’t make you right. It may be a Nerf for some builds, but it’s a buff for others. That’s the definition of a lateral change.

Don’t look at me, I’m not the one involved in the long ongoing discussion of “Rage is a problem and needs to be addressed, and this change is addressing it”.

[Wavicle]

The change to rage makes it similarly damaging to both defense and resistance builds.

 

Unleashed might offers an alternative with no crash.

 

Ship it.

[Vanden]

43 minutes ago, Eirei07 said:

Well, my SS/Invul Brute is gonna take more than double the amount of damage during crashes going forward, so I’ll let ya know how that statement holds up. *thumbsup*

 

My SS/Fire Brute farmer toon drops during crashes pretty regularly, especially with as Betty mentioned, the crash coinciding with the end crash from Hasten. So much that I have Rise of the Phoenix just so I don’t need as much Awaken insp. With this toon, I can just switch to UM, and enjoy a smoother ride and faster clear times.

 

Have you tested either of these characters with the changes? I'm especially curious if UM will actually give you faster clear times.

[Eirei07]

Just now, Wavicle said:

The change to rage makes it similarly damaging to both defense and resistance builds.

That’s already been debunked. It might make it somewhat better for pure def sets, it still arguably hits them harder than Res sets. And you’re ignoring hybrid sets, and regen who is quietly sitting in the sidelines trying not to attract attention to themselves.

[Wavicle]

1 minute ago, Eirei07 said:

That’s already been debunked. It might make it somewhat better for pure def sets, it still arguably hits them harder than Res sets. And you’re ignoring hybrid sets, and regen who is quietly sitting in the sidelines trying not to attract attention to themselves.

No, it has not. People claiming it has been debunked is not the same as having debunked it.

[Indystruck]

8 hours ago, skoryy said:

 

My thought on thoughts like this is that we don't know what else Synapse and Hit Streak had planned as far as big changes following the PPM change. They might've been asked but who knows if their notes and memories were still enough to build from.  Homecoming devs came into this like a half-built renovation and the homeowners have already moved back in, they've had to work around that.  Something to keep in mind as we give feedback.  CP's not Hit Streak, and neither of them were Jack.

 

Synapse was in the Dev Q&A, luckily!

 

Are there any progression, itemization etc. systems or ideas from other games that you have worked on since or have played since CoH's development that you can see working in City of Heroes? Do you have any advice you'd give to the current people supporting the game, or things you'd personally like to see, whether as a player or former developer?

• As far as totally unsolicited advice, I offer the following:

  - Trying to balance this mess is a lost cause. Embrace the chaos, fix the very very bottom and very very top performers and always try to make things more fun.

  - This one is obvious, but it's amazing how often I have to remind people of this. Approach everything with goals first.

  - Ask yourself "how is this serving the playerbase?" "is this the best solution to this problem?"

  - Know that you're doing amazing work!