Overwhelming Force KB->KD doesn't always work

[kelly Rocket]

I'm running a Bots/Time as my main toon at the moment. The Assault Bot has the Overwhelming Force KB->KD and Chance for KD IO in it. The other bots have the Sudden Acceleration KB->KD.

 

I've noticed the Assault Bot still does knockback, but not consistently. My working hypothesis is that when it uses an attack that does knockback normally, like the Swarmer Missiles or the Incendiary Swarmer Missiles, what happens is that the natural knockback is reduced to knockdown, but then the chance for knockdown procs on some of the targets hit, and since they apply in the same server frame, it ends up stacking back up to knockback levels.

 

That's just a hypothesis however. Is there any way to possibly fix this?

[Vanden]

I’m not sure the issue is one of stacking knockbacks. IIRC knockback needs to be > mag 1 in order to actually knock the target back. KB-to-KD IOs put a -10000% reduction in knockback enhancement on the power they’re slotted in, leaving pretty much any mag of knockback somewhere around 0.01. If you stack that with a chance for knockdown proc, probably a typical 0.67 mag knockback, that’s still well under mag 1 and should still be only knockdown.

[kelly Rocket]

Well I don't know then.

 

It only really seemed to happen with the Assault Bot's incendiary missiles.

 

I finally just yanked the Overwhelming Force piece and replaced it with Sudden Acceleration, and it completely fixed the problem. So obviously there's something amiss with the Overwhelming Force piece.

 

I actually tried swapping the OF from Assault Bot with the Sudden Acceleration in Battle Drones first, but the T1 bots were doing knockback with their knockback beams, instead of knockdown, when slotted that way. It's possible the OF KB->KD conversion isn't strong enough, so stacking can hit knockback levels too easily.

[kelly Rocket]

Any chance of a fix on this? I really hate that I've had to give up using it entirely and go Sudden Acceleration on all my pets.

[Doomrider]

This is also not working in warshades nuke (quasar) as well. Power still knockback. Same result with sudden acceleration Io.

[Purrfekshawn]

Maybe after -1000% knockback reduction, the power's Knockback value is braced, and rounded to 0.67 (least possible KB), then extra KD chance (mag 0.67 as well) sums with it and it becomes 1.34, which is already KB level. But l noticed that chance to AoE knockback adds this way is insignificant anyway, like 1 or 2 adds knocked back if 16 are hit. It also depends on +? level you run content, at +4 magnitude seems to be reduced below 0.67 anyway. l don't slot any KB to KD on my Main except Overwhelming Force in Assault Bot, it turns it to almost perma-knock type crowd control powah.

 

Also KB to KD may not work when you use it against lvl 1 or around adds, because of level-related power buffs, which when caused by 49% level difference may exceed KB value. Powers those usually never knock back (like Dragon's Tail) may cause knockback to underleveled adds.

 

Edit: Incendiary Swarm Missiles, those naturally don't knock targets at all, have another source of KB, if one tick is triggered by Incendiary Swarm Missiles power caused by bot (0.67), and another - caused by flames, generated by power (0.67 too it adds up to 1.34). These may KB targets. But if there is bunch of adds, and Assault Bot fired Incendiary in center of it, flames spawn under each add, and all of them deal AoE damage and can KD targets, and if adds packed tightly, their KB may trigger simultaneously, resulting alot bigger KD values, and therefore solid KB.

 

Well now l think Bot's OP Knockback control & AoE damage through flames has this sudden KB side effect because of it. What to say - win some, lose some...

But please, leave it as it is. Don't nerf Goofy. Let it be balanced this way...

[kelly Rocket]

Weirdly, switching to Sudden Acceleration DID fix the problem with Bots for me.

 

My bots no longer scatter mobs.

 

But clearly there's SOME issue here.

[Purrfekshawn]

Weirdly, switching to Sudden Acceleration DID fix the problem with Bots for me.

 

My bots no longer scatter mobs.

 

But clearly there's SOME issue here.

Issue is with Fire Patch caused by Assault Bot. When there are several targets, patches are created under each target. Each of those patches deals AoE damage. When they are created they have chance to KD something on first hit. If more then one patch KD's same target - their magnitude sum up and adds get knocked back.

 

So choice is - either you want your Assault Bat permaknock enemies through patches and slot OF. Or you don't want knockback and then slot Sudden Acceleration.

[kelly Rocket]

It's not just the Incendiary Missiles. I had slotted the overwhelming force piece in the T1 bots, the Battle Drones, and they still ended up doing lots of knockback instead of knockdown until I gave up on using Overwhelming Force at all and just bought a third Sudden Acceleration.

[Vanden]

I should point out that I have this same issue, and made a thread about it, when I put the Overwhelming Force proc into Telekinetic Thrust from Psionic Assault.

[Emag6256]

I'm having a similar issue with my Peacebringer, with the overwhelming force enhancement slotted into Dawnstrike it still applies knockback instead of knockdown.  However when i swap it out with a Sudden Acceleration the knockback to knockdown affect seems to work fine.  I even tested the Overwhelming Force enhancement in Solar Flare to see if the same problem occurs however it seems to properly convert Knockback to Knockdown there.   In short it doesn't seem to work properly in  certain powers but in others it works just fine?

[Redlynne]

Great, another reason to update my Peacebringer leveling build ...

[Sunsette]

Can confirm this is likewise an issue in various Energy Blast powers for Sentinels.

[Clave Dark 5]

On 7/21/2019 at 9:00 PM, Purrfekshawn said:

Man, that monolith from 2001 ain't messing around anymore.

Edited July 30, 2019 by Clave Dark 5

[JackDaniels]

On 7/15/2019 at 6:31 PM, kelly Rocket said:

I'm running a Bots/Time as my main toon at the moment. The Assault Bot has the Overwhelming Force KB->KD and Chance for KD IO in it. The other bots have the Sudden Acceleration KB->KD.

 

I've noticed the Assault Bot still does knockback, but not consistently. My working hypothesis is that when it uses an attack that does knockback normally, like the Swarmer Missiles or the Incendiary Swarmer Missiles, what happens is that the natural knockback is reduced to knockdown, but then the chance for knockdown procs on some of the targets hit, and since they apply in the same server frame, it ends up stacking back up to knockback levels.

 

That's just a hypothesis however. Is there any way to possibly fix this?

If you look at the enhancement for the overwhelming force  it says Chance for Knockback to Knockdown so its not an always  like the sudden acceleration so its not going to happen all the time thats why i never use them 

 

[Sunsette]

9 hours ago, JackDaniels said:

If you look at the enhancement for the overwhelming force  it says Chance for Knockback to Knockdown so its not an always  like the sudden acceleration so its not going to happen all the time thats why i never use them 

 

That's actually a misread. It's supposed to always convert KB to KD, then there is a separate chance of KD.

[kelly Rocket]

9 hours ago, JackDaniels said:

If you look at the enhancement for the overwhelming force  it says Chance for Knockback to Knockdown so its not an always  like the sudden acceleration so its not going to happen all the time thats why i never use them 

 

No it does not. It says Knockback to Knockdown, Chance for Knockdown. That's two separate effects.