The hidden gem: Sonic/Bio.

[Sovera]

Do you know those builds that are great but come with a warning sticker 'it only really starts at level 32/38/when you're 50 and IOed to the gills'?

This is not one of those.

 

 

So, Sonic/Bio. Undoubtedly a good choice for the -res and t-.. NOPE! Yeah, it does -res and its good, but not *that* good on a Sentinel. No, it's Sonic for the... AoE 😄 By level 18 we have three cones. One of them is a Sleep, one is a KB, and one is pure damage. By level 18 we also have access to the Sudden Acceleration KB>KD IO which turns the KB cone into a useful tool, and also Force Feedback since we are starved for recharge at that level.

The AoE is *nuts*. Open with the KB-turned-KD cone (Shockwave), mobs fall on their rear. Throw the damage cone (Howl), damage is done. Throw the Sleep cone (Siren's Song), *more* damage is done *and* all/most of the mobs are now sleeping. At the low levels there is now a gap. Use your T2 for Defensive Opportunity. That's it, your two first cones are back up. ONCE MORE TO AOE-LAND WE GO!

 

 

By level 25 I noticed I could throw myself as tank in a full TF and was *thriving*. The secret ingredient is Defensive Opportunity. The heal is small, but we are cycling AoEs and suddenly every mob we hit is recharging endurance and filling our HP bar while we keep them either flopping or napping.

 

A *single* cone refills our Opportunity bar from zero to max but if badly positioned then two will do, and we are back at healing up while throwing out CC-baked-in AoEs.

 

 

 

Now, if we look at Pines the damage does not look like much as befits quick recharging AoEs (that role is saved for Dreadful Wail). 105 damage for the so called damage cone? 81 for the KD cone? But Pines does not take in consideration Bio's 50% 30%-ish (courtesy of @drbuzzard's testing, 25% from offensive + toxic damage tick) plus the sonic res, which, really isn't much, but it's there and stacking on itself.

 

Pines shows Dreadful Wail as doing 406 damage with Amplify but with Bio's 30%-ish it's now 527. My Elec stalker has Pines showing Lightning Rod doing 697 damage with Build-Up, for example, but it does not have CC baked in nor does he get to sit down and then do a pure AoE cycle until everything is killed.

 

A slight revising. The Stalker had the Gaussian BU in Aim which Pines accounts for. With the same BU proc on Aim on the Sonic which I had not placed in the original numbers, plus Bio's Offensive Adaptation, our T9 goes up to... 694 damage. Not shabby.

 

Actually /Bio does not add that much. Testing with Fire/ showed an increase that changed according to the skills used with as low as 8% for the nuke. I did not test for Sonic though, but no reason to believe it is different.

The weak point of cones is that mobs come to us, and then we need to hop back (or hop up) and get some distance . But this is solved at level 35 where we drop the sleep cone due to being the lowest damage, the shortest range *and* not having a -res component attached to it. Instead we grab Fire Cages. It gives some much needed set bonuses, it doesn't do much damage (though Bio and the -res of the other cones helps), but it keeps mobs in one place for the cones. It also recharges fast enough to be a near gapless cycling of AoE between it and the two other AoEs.

In the ST department Screech (coming at level 26), Scream and Shriek are enough for a gapless chain (until 26 alternate the cones for a filler), all fed by Bio and the stacking -res. Screech's baked in Stun is always good (and guess what it stacks with? It rhymes with mail) but not a novelty in Sentinel builds. Still, bosses will be stunned and stay stunned in the first five seconds or less of combat.

 

My current ST chain is Scream, Screech, Scream, Shriek.

 

Defenses are always difficult to work in Sentinel Bio, so I aimed at 40% with the intention of using Barrier Core Epiphany to fill up the last 5% (Barrier defense/resistance dwindles over time, but we will always have a minimum of 5% defense even at very end of its use).

The 'this is the most fun I have had' comes up often in these forums but I will for once join in. The constant AoE really made this a fun leveling process. The cycling of cones and Defensive Opportunity coupled with proactive Ablative Carapace allowed me to just go in and start smacking packs early on.

 

 

I have not felt the need for Parasitic Leech, but for those who want to take it or don't want Flight/Afterburner it's an option.  Athletic Regulation also has defense debuff resistance and requires no slots, making it the smart option, but I do love flying, and flying requires Afterburner, so it's my one non min-maxed sin in the build.

 

 

 

Leveling build pre-35, or, how *I* leveled it. Don't take the slot levels as gospel and fill up what you feel you need the most. In my case the AoEs took precedence and I went all the way into 30s+ without slotting my heals or shields more than the base slot.

 

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.962
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

 

 

Complete Build pos-35. Just slowly buy all the expensive crap and slot up at your own pace:

 

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.962
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

 

 

If there is any conflict with the planner I'm using Mid's Reborn (https://forums.homecomingservers.com/index.php/topic,6298.0.html).

Edited December 31, 2019 by Sovera

[Sunsette]

A small note about AoE defensive opportunity and the opportunity bar: sometimes it works per target. Sometimes it doesn't. I can't tell which is intended, but I notice it happens a lot less at 50, even soloing, so it warrants a lot more investigation. 

[Sovera]

I will have to get to 50 and test some more. But I like this character so much it may finally have cured my altitism.

[Sovera]

So, update.

 

Reached 50! My first one since returning to CoH! Altitis, cured! I tried going to a fire farm around 45-ish and could do it at -1x8 despite abysmal slotting and basic IOs everywhere.

 

When I reached 50 I made some inf, bought more stuff. Tried again and can now do it a 0x8 despite still being at about 32%. This was when I noticed the damage was really poor. Meh. Even at +0 and it was taking long to kill mobs. But wait, I suddenly looked at my inspiration tray and saw that they were sitting pretty and mostly unused. Greens? Defensive opportunity + Ablative Shield + Rebuild DNA was all I needed. Purples? Defensive Opportunity + Fire Cages made them not needed (mobs attack less at range and I outheal it). Blues? Defensive Opportunity.

 

So I took them all out, googled for an inspiration combining macro that combines them when I use my movements keys, and now I'm popping all my reds before launching myself at a pack. Much, much better and it's also how farming is done. I'm still too squishy to move higher up (solved if I'd just pop a purple, but not interested in doing that) but it's working admirably.

 

No endurance problems while AoEing (despite those still being in basic  IOs only). Definite endurance problems while in ST mode but I have eight toggles: Environmental Adaption, Hardened Carapace, Super Speed (with the stealth IO to stealth missions and get in position for Dreadful Wail), Tough (only 11% res to S/L, but why not?), Weave, Hover and Maneuvers. Honorable mention to Offensive Adaption but it apparently costs no endurance. While hitting hard targets like a GM or AV for *minutes* I will turn those all off with the exception of the Bio toggles.

 

The usual MO is pre-emptive Ablative, pop all my reds + Amplify, then Hover stealth courtesy of SS to the middle of the pack and explode with Dreadful Wail. Previously targeted boss is hit with Screech, which stacking with Dreadful Wail takes it out of the equation. Pop Fire Cages, float a bit back, do Shockwave. Opportunity bar is now full. Scream on the boss to activate Defensive Opportunity. Boss is still CCed. Fire Cages should be back now. Fire Cages now has everything locked, boss waking up from Stun included. Then I just go to town cycling Shockwave and Howl with Fire Cages refreshing every second cycle. Even if some of the mobs break free because of misses I just reapply Fire Cages and visually it's quite pretty because it ends up being a conga line which works great with the cones. I've tried hoverblasting, but it was not working well with the cones since it missed too many enemies.

 

Speaking of cones, the range extension in both Sentinel's ATOs *really* show themselves and they now have a loooong reach.

Edited July 29, 2019 by Sovera

[oldskool]

[Sovera]

Another update.

 

I haven't gone up very far. T2 Musculature and Degenerative after some false starts regarding incarnates. But as I play the end-game-ish I realize the part of Sonic that made me love the build and have fun is not useful in the end-game.

 

What made Sonic a riot was being beastly survivable (I'm leveling an ice sentinel, and dying so much pre-22 thanks to the agro of the rains and ice breath. My sonic laughed at this including the final pack of simulacrum bosses in Posi 1), and the ability to cycle AoEs. Of course they do anemic damage compared to the big hitters, but that makes sense. In my finished build Frost breath does 182 damage (aim up, no BU, no procs, not including Offensive Adaptation) while Sonic's Howl does 105.  That's a 73% damage increase. But now Frost Breath needs 5 seconds to recharge where we are doing ST damage and Sonic has Shockwave doing 81 damage (and more importantly, working at proccing Force Feedback). While this evens out (two cones doing the damage of a single Frost Breath) what is the difference?

 

The difference is that both Shockwave and Howl do the Opportunity fill out *per* enemy hit. That means one cone on a full pack and it's up, we are 90% of the time under Defensive Opportunity, and each cone is healing a nice chunk. Frost Breath does not have this where every mob hit counts. In fact, neither does Fire, nor AR's Buckshot (but Flamethrower does). I do not have a Water sentinel high enough to test Steam Spray but BR's Cutting Beam does have the Opportunity-per-mob.

 

Coupled with the Force Feedback and the build is pretty tough to kill in big groups. In fact, tougher the fewer team mates there are, and noticeably tough the more in trouble the team is.

 

 

The problem lays in that cones are super finicky to use. Did the target either move slightly to the side or got knocked? Suddenly we miss most of the targets unlike a Fireball effect.  Someone T9 or Judgemented and only three or four mobs are left. Other than the fact they will be most likely scattered and running around is there a point in using low damage cones instead of STing one of those harder targets and kill it dead?

 

The AoE in Sonic is sustain AoE. Think of like WoW where sustain AoE is important when a trash pack may take a minute to kill. But in CoH between 30 second T9s and Judgements and 8 man teams cycling these then burst AoE is the absolute ruler.

 

 

So, that said, it's not that bad. It's just a matter of changing perspectives. The cones are good for soloing, they are good for examplaring, and they are good if we split up from the main group or the team, for some unfathomable reason, is going down. Because, after all, WE TOO have a 30 second T9 and Judgement, we can participate, we are not tied to the cones as our sole means of AoE contribution even if it would be nice to have a Fireball type of power to weave in that is less finicky regarding aiming.

 

 

Revising the numbers in the OP my elec Stalker's Lightning Rod shows as doing 697 damage in Pines, but I had the BU proc on Aim which Pines takes in consideration. With the same BU proc on Aim on the Sonic which I had not placed in the original numbers, plus Bio's Offensive Adaptation, our T9 goes up to... 694 damage.

 

 

The next thing I'll be working at will be lowering the defense numbers to 32% in order to free up slotting in the attacks in order to fit in procs. Check the Defender forums where there are some very good threads regarding damage procs and PPM. This will require to munch on a purple when in trouble instead of relying on Barrier. On the other hand it does free Barrier to pick up something else if wanting.

Edited July 31, 2019 by Sovera

[Sovera]

Lowered the defenses to 33%-ish. Slotted in some procs, but I'm not sure if it is well done since I'm eschewing the part of PPM where we slot minimal or no recharge into attacks in order to maximize procs happening. But this will do as a first sketch to further refine along the way.

 

 

 

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.962
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

[Sovera]

Alright, I don't see where I can improve this further, but I welcome advice.

 

There were plenty of small changes incorporated in this. Super Speed got ditched for Stealth. I took the trouble of messing with Pines' options to suppress Stealth so we see the actual defense while in combat and the magic number has been (mostly) achieved at 32.2% for all except S/L which is slightly higher than the goal. The stealth IO is now slapped on to Sprint for the combined effect of perfect Stealth, which was something I really really really wanted.

 

Athletic Regulation got worked in (HELLO DDR! And some minor hover speed too, I guess).

 

I removed Force Feedback because of two reasons. One of them is that perma Hasten has been achieved and in any case the recharge proc is tied to my solo mode. Solo mode I will be using the cones, but not in teams, so the proc's usefulness will be situational. The second reason is that the only thing that still benefits from *more* recharge is my nuke, and in practical terms less than 25 seconds is not needed. I'm not going to use my T9 twice in a pack (well, normally I wouldn't unless it got down to 15 seconds like Archery's) and between cleaning up the harder mobs, picking up stragglers and moving to the next pack 25 seconds is about right solo. In teams others will be chomping at the bit to use their T9/Judgement so a few extra seconds will not matter IMO.

 

Both cones were played around with. They now have each a proc to help kill big packs faster. Howl got Ragnorok for the simplest of reasons that the KD proc would have been wasted in Shockwave who already performs KD 100%. In either case it is sort of wasted since Shockwave and Howl are almost almost gapless and by the animation time of getting back up on their feet mobs are ready to be slammed back down. So perhaps eek out a few % more by replacing the KD proc by the damage. I don't feel it matters much either way.

 

 

Despite wanting to give at least one damage proc per attack I ended up giving Sentinel's Ward to Shriek. This is because Shriek is my least used attack  with Scream, Screech, Scream, Shriek as my planned attack chain though I probably will have enough for Screech, Scream, Shriek (start with the hardest hitter, if it's still alive use the second hardest, if it's still alive use the third. No point in starting with Shriek and then animate/use endurance in two extra attacks). But also because I wanted to fit Sentinel's Ward *somewhere*.  Due to the animation time and base recharge I don't think Shriek gets much usage out of procs anyway.

 

Scream ended with Opportunity Strikes but I am not sure to whom this would have gone better. Screech or Scream. With its longest base recharge and animation Screech is going to carry the procs. But which? Do I want Screech with a better chance to do damage procs, or do I want Screech with a better chance to fill up my Opportunity bar in ST which is when Sonic's Opportunity bar fill up lags behind? On another hand the Opportunity Strikes proc chance is notoriously low so am I wasting Screech's slightly better proc carrying with it instead of further improving it being Sonic's ST mini nuke? My gut says improve Screech mini nuke duties but I don't have the math to back it considering improved uptime of Offensive Opportunity and the damage boost plus -res that comes attached to it.

 

 

I threw more endurance recovery at the built with a Performance Shifter proc at Inexhaustible and a Panaceia in Health (the slot could have gone to Inexhaustible and made no difference, IMO) and some minor changes in slotting choices in attacks, I'm not sure if it has reached a neutral or even positive status, but as no longer requiring Barrier then Ageless is there as an option.

 

 

Gaussian's BU in Amplify for a boost and a -res in Dreadful Wail are the last changes. Now, for a pack the -res is going to be of small use since it will hit 1-2 mobs in the whole thing, but my reasoning is that in a pack it will not matter much since it is literally trash we bulldoze over. But when fighting a hard mob Dreadful Wail will be used in conjunction with Amplify and the recharge times make it almost certainly work, so the -res will be present while we are still boosted by Amplify and returning to our ST chain.

 

Perhaps a damage proc will be more useful for the same scenario?

 

 

The (last?) revised build:

 

 

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.962
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

 

[Sovera]

Probably my last post on this build since I've done as much with it as I cared. I was hoping for a bit of conversation and less of a monologue, but I'm guessing I'm too long winded and my basic ramblings don't have the hard math to back them to make for a conversation.

 

It's my belief the last build I posted works very well, and if anything it is the build I would advise for a newbie sentinel. The constant CC starting in the very low levels with AoE KD and AoE Sleep (later replaced by Fire Cages) + refilling Opportunity with a single cone + the vampiric effect of AoE Defensive Opportunity makes leveling and teaming a breeze and a pleasure. No endurance problems, lots of HP returns, lots of CC to give time for regen to work. As I mentioned in the title Sonic/Bio is a hidden gem hardly ever mentioned but it deserves more credit.

 

The only thing it lags behind is solo farming. The cones do not lend themselves well to it and I find all the re-positioning to cost so many seconds that my nuke has recharged before I've finished a +2 spawn. I would have liked to do a pylon test just for numbers, but I'm still lacking a few purples and T4s, and I've moved on to another build since I don't really grind the end-game much (hello altitis). I may return just for that since transferring IOs is allowed (though only 7 tabs is too few to hold a full build's IOs, argh) but for now I'm leveling an AoE beast build I'll post about later.

[ParaBruce]

I'm sorry I haven't had more to say, but it's been absolutely fascinating to listen. I've learned a bunch, about the game in general as well as about this build, and appreciate it very much.

 

[Hedgefund]

I was thinking it was time to go all-in on a Sentinel and this was the combo I'd settled on.  Actually I was planning out a Sonic/Plant blaster and just thought "I really should make a Sent one of these days".  I whipped up a build in Pines, wasn't thrilled, in fact was so unthrilled I went back to favoring a blaster, but then I found this thread and you've reinvigorated my interest.

 

This is what I had whipped up (it's just a first draft).  I'm not even looking for feedback, just an fyi, I can already think of some changes I'll make after looking at yours.  I see how you snuck in some s/l with the immob and slotting in Brawl.  It seems like 33ish def for S/L and take a purple insp if you need it is the way to go.

 

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.962
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

 

A question if I may - did you take  Parasitic Leech and found it not worthwhile?  On paper it looks pretty good, except for the very very long recharge.  

 

 

[Sovera]

It is very good. Typical panic button, you click it and you're near immortal. But I found that I very rarely needed it to the point it sat there not being used. If you want a panic button that is it though. But I find when I die it is rather instant instead of being whittled down.

 

In a team we hardly need the purple inspirations less alone a panic button. Solo I found just Ablative was enough to mitigate the damage with Rebuild DNA for recouping HP (not strictly necessary since Ablative boosts our regen as well). In particular with this build who has a ton of self healing from the primary as a Sentinel (in AoE situations).

[nihilii]

On 8/5/2019 at 2:16 AM, Sovera said:

Probably my last post on this build since I've done as much with it as I cared. I was hoping for a bit of conversation and less of a monologue, but I'm guessing I'm too long winded and my basic ramblings don't have the hard math to back them to make for a conversation.

I think it's mostly that you come to good conclusions and support them logically (at least from where I stand!), so there's little to add.

i.e. I agree completely with your take on slotting -res in Dreadful Wail. Meaty -20% boosting ST chain + eventual Lore pets and those other pets we call teammates, beats a damage proc anyday.

Enjoyed reading through the topic and I also love those embedded video snippets. 😀

Edited August 10, 2019 by nihilii

[Sovera]

Kind words, Nihilii o/

[Hedgefund]

I'm diggin' my sonic/bio so far.  I PLd to 30s so I can't speak to its lowbie game, but I'm impressed with its sturdiness.  I haven't had a chance to use Parasitic Leech yet, I see what you mean about it being situational.  Still I'll keep it simply because I like to have hands-on experience with a power I'm unfamiliar with.

[Griffyn]

Looking to respec my Sonic/Bio and I was interested in looking at your final build, but it seems to be corrupt. Can you post it again?

 

Thanks.

[Sovera]

Are you using Hero Designer?

[Griffyn]

That was the issue. I was using Pine's and not Mid's Reborn. I can get into all of the builds now. Thanks. Now to review and plan....  (I'd bwah hah hah at this time, but.... Hero).

 

Thanks for the builds and the assist.  I'll let you know what I come up with but it may be a while. It's going to get very busy for me soon.

Edited August 17, 2019 by Griffyn

[Sovera]

Mid's Reborn and Pines were the protoypes, now it's Hero Designer and a good thing too with all three pooling their efforts into a consolidated project.

[WillParkinson]

Hope you'll forgive the tardiness. I just started playing again, and your build fascinates me. This will be my first try with a Sentinel, so I'm eager to see what it can do. I have got one question. In the body of the original post, it says, "Leveling build pre-35" but when I open it, all the enhancements say 50. I've never used Mids before, so it's possible I've done something wrong, and was hoping you could shed some light.

 

Thank you so much for your time and for sharing this build.

[Sovera]

13 hours ago, WillParkinson said:

Hope you'll forgive the tardiness. I just started playing again, and your build fascinates me. This will be my first try with a Sentinel, so I'm eager to see what it can do. I have got one question. In the body of the original post, it says, "Leveling build pre-35" but when I open it, all the enhancements say 50. I've never used Mids before, so it's possible I've done something wrong, and was hoping you could shed some light.

 

Thank you so much for your time and for sharing this build.

*beats the gathered dust* Sheesh... Been a while... Yes, don't worry about the levels of the enhancements. Just buy your regular generic IOs at 22 and slot the stuff in. What the pre-35 means is just the slotting and the powers that I picked. I would remove the range increase from Siren's Song and add a third Recharge to Hasten.

[WillParkinson]

Yeah, I didn't even realize the game was back, and now that I've had it a week, I have 35 alts. I...might have a problem. But I'm enjoying this character so far! Thank you for visiting it and letting me know I'm on the right track. I very much appreciate your time, the build, and your attention.

[Sovera]

24 minutes ago, WillParkinson said:

Yeah, I didn't even realize the game was back, and now that I've had it a week, I have 35 alts. I...might have a problem. But I'm enjoying this character so far! Thank you for visiting it and letting me know I'm on the right track. I very much appreciate your time, the build, and your attention.

I can honestly say this character is one of the few I would remake from scratch and play again because it was such a fun experience. The constant AoE, the helping the team with CC, the vampiric style as you can see in the GIFs, the -res of Sonic/ and Sentinel helping the team. Good fun. I won't promise the luster won't rub off at 50 but it's a fun trip up to then.

 

If you need some tips as a recent return check my signature since I just added some info that may help.

Edited January 22, 2020 by Sovera

[WillParkinson]

I'm enjoying the hell out of it. 🙂 I started with a different set and hated it, so found this and now I'm going nuts.

 

[UrbanHound]

Do you think other secondaries would work or is this level of success exclusive to /Bio? I have a couple other /Bio characters and was hoping to do something else on a Sentinel, possibly Regen, Ninjitsu, or Super Reflexes. Would love to get your insight.