Focused Feedback: Snipes and Dominator changes

[carroto]

18 minutes ago, Thezanman said:

AFAIK the earliest level any snipe is available is 12, already over halfway through the beginner's luck periodd

Blasters get Moonbeam at 8.  Defenders get it at 4.  Corruptors get it at 2.

[Thezanman]

1 hour ago, carroto said:

Blasters get Moonbeam at 8.  Defenders get it at 4.  Corruptors get it at 2.

Sorry, I thought Psionic Blast got it earlier than others for some reason, my bad.

[oedipus_tex]

Interesting changes overall.

 

I was wondering about Icy Assault's Chilling Embrace. I was really hoping to see you do something with it. It's a slow aura with an abysmal radius (8ft). I have never taken this power, nor can I imagine any scenario where I would take it.

 

IMO what would make it very interesting is if you bumped the duration of the Slow effect from 5 seconds to something like 45 seconds. A mechanic like this exists in Glue Arrow and Sleet/Freezing Rain, where the debuff 'lingers' for a long duration even if enemies leave the original radius. It would mean anything who gets close to the Dominator is slowed for quite a while, and make this power far more tempting. if you think 45 seconds is too long, perhaps consider increasing the radius instead (say 15ft radius, 20 second duration).

[carroto]

27 minutes ago, oedipus_tex said:

I was wondering about Icy Assault's Chilling Embrace. I was really hoping to see you do something with it. It's a slow aura with an abysmal radius (8ft). I have never taken this power, nor can I imagine any scenario where I would take it.

 

IMO what would make it very interesting is if you bumped the duration of the Slow effect from 5 seconds to something like 45 seconds. A mechanic like this exists in Glue Arrow and Sleet/Freezing Rain, where the debuff 'lingers' for a long duration even if enemies leave the original radius. It would mean anything who gets close to the Dominator is slowed for quite a while, and make this power far more tempting. if you think 45 seconds is too long, perhaps consider increasing the radius instead (say 15ft radius, 20 second duration).

From the August 17th patch notes :

 

Icy Assault:

• Chilling Embrace: increased radius to 15ft. Added -10% damage str to affected enemies.

[oedipus_tex]

1 hour ago, carroto said:

From the August 17th patch notes :

 

Icy Assault:

• Chilling Embrace: increased radius to 15ft. Added -10% damage str to affected enemies.

 

Very nice. 🙂 Thanks for pointing that out.

[summers]

Thank you for reconsidering some of the Martial Assault changes, I love that there is a set with kicks where the kicks are useful and it isn't just shuriken assault 🙂

[Thezanman]

4 hours ago, summers said:

Thank you for reconsidering some of the Martial Assault changes, I love that there is a set with kicks where the kicks are useful and it isn't just shuriken assault 🙂

Martial Arts?

[Tater Todd]

Is there a way to test if the new Chilling Embrace is properly reducing incoming damage?  I checked the pet Combat Windows, Regular Combat Window and I'm not seeing anything.  Knowing me I had to of overlook something. 

Edited August 23, 2019 by Tater Todd

[Captain Powerhouse]

Go to a critter with Chilling embrace turned off, let the critter hit you. Look at the combat log. Turn it on, repeat.

Edited August 23, 2019 by Captain Powerhouse

[Alpha Man]

Do we know when these changes will go live?

[Captain Powerhouse]

Think there will be one more justin patch, we may know after that.

Edited August 23, 2019 by Captain Powerhouse

[XaoGarrent]

On 8/19/2019 at 8:07 PM, Captain Powerhouse said:

Note that T1s are almost always the fastest recharging power in most sets. Making them also very good DPS is very likely to turn the T2 into a useless power, and potentially many other powers in the set (since it may result in a 2 attack set.)

 

So, my goal is to add situational usability for the power. It's unlikely that these powers will ever become the most optimal powers on any set.

 

Here is an idea, (not a promise) of what I have been contemplating for a long time:

Make the weakest attack in every set have potentially no recharge, extreme accuracy and cost no endurance. Basically, a power you can still use when you are extremely debuffed and grasping for endurance. It would also result in a power that's ideal for low level players, when they cant get enough recharge to fill their attack chains.

 

This is, however, subject to lots of analysis, and make sure no outlier power out there breaks the game.

Bit late of a response, but... I highly encourage this. This would solve a few of the oldest and most obnoxious design problems the game has.

[nihilii]

On 8/20/2019 at 2:07 AM, Captain Powerhouse said:

Here is an idea, (not a promise) of what I have been contemplating for a long time:

Make the weakest attack in every set have potentially no recharge, extreme accuracy and cost no endurance. Basically, a power you can still use when you are extremely debuffed and grasping for endurance. It would also result in a power that's ideal for low level players, when they cant get enough recharge to fill their attack chains.

I think this would be brokenly good (if we're assuming no nerfs to the current functionality of T1s), in the context of single target damage. You'd be giving a ~100 DPS attack chain, for free:

- no power cost selection

- no player input required (power on auto and you're good to go, never need to watch endurance)
- few additional slots required (no recharge, no endurance, no accuracy = all damage)

That later point also means you could fill up the power with procs and eke out even more damage.

But even before IOs, it would raise to the floor to the point most attacks might be functionally useless during the leveling phase. Why spend powers and slots on attacks that need accuracy, recharge, endurance and active involvement, when you could rely on your T1 machinegun and supercharge your primary and pools instead? AoEs get a pass, everything else might be more trouble than it's worth.

I kind of want this to happen, just for the sheer paradigm shift and gamebreaking potential. Which is probably not a good thing. 😛

Edited August 24, 2019 by nihilii
said DPA instead of DPS

[Thezanman]

12 hours ago, nihilii said:

I think this would be brokenly good (if we're assuming no nerfs to the current functionality of T1s), in the context of single target damage. You'd be giving a ~100 DPA attack chain, for free:

- no power cost selection

- no player input required (power on auto and you're good to go, never need to watch endurance)
- few additional slots required (no recharge, no endurance, no accuracy = all damage)

That later point also means you could fill up the power with procs and eke out even more damage.

But even before IOs, it would raise to the floor to the point most attacks might be functionally useless during the leveling phase. Why spend powers and slots on attacks that need accuracy, recharge, endurance and active involvement, when you could rely on your T1 machinegun and supercharge your primary and pools instead? AoEs get a pass, everything else might be more trouble than it's worth.

I kind of want this to happen, just for the sheer paradigm shift and gamebreaking potential. Which is probably not a good thing. 😛

You're overestimating T1 attacks. Their damage is so much lower than anything else that it would be a terrible idea to skip your other ST powers.

[nihilii]

Well, you're certainly entitled to your opinion. But I strongly feel you are severely underestimating both the importance of DPA over absolute damage, the relevance of endurance management, the opportunity cost of slots and even power choices, and even the player input requirement in balancing an attack chain as opposed to running one power on auto.

For clarity and to reiterate, that part of the argument wasn't about lvl 50 IOed out incarnate builds, but the leveling phase. Given this hypothetical change and no change to current T1 DPA, I can't think of many level 30 builds that would be better off with slotted out attacks of all kinds over T1 + AoEs + strong focus on primary. CTRL-Clicking a T1 3-slotted for damage would give you 75-80 DPS (normalized for level 50) for no effort. On SOs, I'm doubtful the average player even reaches that *with a full attack chain*. It's more than possible in theory, but the reality of your usual level 30 is some whiffing, some endurance woes, some confusion as to what the attack chain should even be, and so on.
 

 

[Sovera]

On 8/20/2019 at 1:07 AM, Captain Powerhouse said:

Note that T1s are almost always the fastest recharging power in most sets. Making them also very good DPS is very likely to turn the T2 into a useless power, and potentially many other powers in the set (since it may result in a 2 attack set.)

 

So, my goal is to add situational usability for the power. It's unlikely that these powers will ever become the most optimal powers on any set.

 

Here is an idea, (not a promise) of what I have been contemplating for a long time:

Make the weakest attack in every set have potentially no recharge, extreme accuracy and cost no endurance. Basically, a power you can still use when you are extremely debuffed and grasping for endurance. It would also result in a power that's ideal for low level players, when they cant get enough recharge to fill their attack chains.

 

This is, however, subject to lots of analysis, and make sure no outlier power out there breaks the game.

Doing that would make them very very nice to have in the low levels. We can always respec out of them later on, but starting the grind, no endurance, long moments without anything to press. City of Cooldowns was a name back in Live for this reason.

[esotericist]

On 8/24/2019 at 11:40 AM, nihilii said:

Well, you're certainly entitled to your opinion. But I strongly feel you are severely underestimating both the importance of DPA over absolute damage, the relevance of endurance management, the opportunity cost of slots and even power choices, and even the player input requirement in balancing an attack chain as opposed to running one power on auto.

 

For many attack powersets (and actually all of the assault sets for Dominators, I checked while composing this), the T2 has a measurably higher DPA than the T1. The cases where this isn't true are generally because the T2 has some significant self buff, target debuff, or mez potential.

 

Presumably if Powerhouse's change were to happen, it would include some steps to normalize the DPA potential. (Hopefully not at the cost of reducing the interesting effects T2s often have)

[QuiJon]

On 8/12/2019 at 12:35 PM, Thezanman said:

If epic pool powers can already beat the DPA of Impale, then there is no reason not to buff it. It wouldn't increase the overall power level, but would prevent people from being forced into those specific pools.

Epic pool powers are a choice. They are not meant to be a complete set, but offer options for filling in the gaps that exist in individual primaries. So maybe you need more end recovery, or maybe you need an AOE immbl because your set doesn't have a taunt/.damage aura to keep enemies attracted or grouped on you. And yes maybe your set doesn't have a Ranged attack or is weak in AOE attacks etc. However a primary set should NEVER be balanced around the idea of what an epic pool can or cannot do. A power like impale is balanced to its proper place within the spines set. Based on it being ranged in a melee set, and the level at which it becomes available to you. And epic set many times requires not only a higher level, but they have longer recharges in many cases, require perhaps more power selections to unlock what they give you.