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Pylon Damage Thread

Project_X

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StriderIV

StriderIV

Posted
Posted
  On 2/26/2022 at 9:32 AM, SomeGuy said:

I got bored.

 

Some sets I just couldn't figure out how to make a proc build work (looking at you EM...and calling BS that the ATO2 proc works going TF-ET). Katana seems to take to proccing out REALLY well. All times are averages. Hybrid is NOT turned on. These are NOT best runs.

 

Archetype     AT Combo     Time (Interface/Type of Snipe/Build Type)

 

Scrapper     DB/BIO               1:12 (Degen/Zapp/Proc)

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Scrapper     CLAWS/BIO            1:14 (Degen/Moonbeam/Proc)

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Scrapper     MA/BIO               1:14 (Degen/Zapp/Proc)

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Scrapper     Kat/BIO              1:15 (Degen/Zapp/Proc)

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Scrapper     RM/BIO               1:27 (Reactive/Zapp/proc build)

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Scrapper     SM/RAD               1:30 (Degen/Moonbeam/Proc)

*MRB won't let me slot a lvl 50 to-hit debuff in Beta Decay then +5 it. I can in game.*

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Scrapper     DB/ENA               1:32 (Degen/Zapp/Proc)

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Scrapper     MA/NIN               1:48 (Degen/Zapp/Proc)

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Scrapper     Kat/INV              1:53 (Degen/Zapp)

 

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You’re doing the Lord’s work Guy.

  • Like 1
SomeGuy

SomeGuy

Posted
Posted
  On 2/26/2022 at 6:21 PM, Bopper said:

Out of curiousity, what were you doing with your build/slotting that wasn't working for you?

Expand  

I've had the proc in TF with worse times and ANECDOTALLY the same amount of crits as when the proc is in ET. Obviously hard numbers back up my biased obersvation better. I get better times with the proc in ET. I could due a log parse, and see hard numbers, but I DEFINITELY am not noticing an improvement with the proc in TF.

 

Speaking of, is there an easy way to do that without having to manually dig through my combat log?

Pylon and Trapdoor Results Spreadsheet

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1d0VruEHGktnPFvtMLF_MdpKPBe0wgUhzyGvb1DQNQQo/edit#gid=0

Bill Z Bubba

Bill Z Bubba

Posted
Posted
  On 2/26/2022 at 9:42 PM, SomeGuy said:

I could due a log parse, and see hard numbers, but I DEFINITELY am not noticing an improvement with the proc in TF.

Expand  

 

You made me look. On my nrg/bio scrap, I have the +50% chance proc in TF. The full Crit Strike's set actually. ET has 5 Hecatomb and a ToD Neg proc. Could easily swap them but now I'm curious why I did that in the first place. Since my chain is ETlong-TF-ETshort-MB-BS-repeat, makes more sense to have it in ET, doesn't it?

 

And a side note, I think you're doin the Devil's work, mang, and he approves!

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SomeGuy

SomeGuy

Posted
Posted
  On 2/26/2022 at 10:20 PM, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

You made me look. On my nrg/bio scrap, I have the +50% chance proc in TF. The full Crit Strike's set actually. ET has 5 Hecatomb and a ToD Neg proc. Could easily swap them but now I'm curious why I did that in the first place. Since my chain is ETlong-TF-ETshort-MB-BS-repeat, makes more sense to have it in ET, doesn't it?

 

And a side note, I think you're doin the Devil's work, mang, and he approves!

Expand  

 

 

❤️ I've got a EM/BIO and EM/SD. I definitely do better damage with the EM/BIO but omg it is so squishy compared to the EM/SD, and the EM/SD still does really really good damage. And shields look awesome.

 

That's actually how I have the slotting on one of the builds (5% AOE defense and 10% recharge? ok!). But unslotters are cheap so swapping the sets between the two is pretty easy.

 

I'm starting to wonder if ET doesn't "crit" as opposed to having the same chance as a crit to activate it's fast cast again or something. If so, this would mean the 3% from ATO1 is moot also.

 

If the proc does increase the chance of ET it makes perfect sense for the proc to be in TF (I ain't seeing it though). But if it doesn't, then yeah. Slap it in ET. ET (proc activates) Snipe BS.

 

I've been going through my logs and I can't find ET "critting". Everything else? Yeah.

Pylon and Trapdoor Results Spreadsheet

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1d0VruEHGktnPFvtMLF_MdpKPBe0wgUhzyGvb1DQNQQo/edit#gid=0

Bopper

Bopper

Posted
Posted
  On 2/26/2022 at 9:42 PM, SomeGuy said:

I've had the proc in TF with worse times and ANECDOTALLY the same amount of crits as when the proc is in ET.

Expand  

I assumed this might be the case. Although TF will have the best chance to proc the ATO, the benefit isn't really there. The crit on ET isn't very strong (BS and your snipe will crit for more) and the power you want to crit the most can't benefit from it (TF). I would recommend slotting only the ATO proc into ET, then slot no other recharge in that power. Use it twice per rotation and I bet you'll find the performance to be pretty good.

 

Something to also consider, the animation time - hit time for TF is fairly large so you waste more of the crit buff window. Something to always keep in mind.

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Bill Z Bubba

Bill Z Bubba

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 2/26/2022 at 10:57 PM, Bopper said:

and the power you want to crit the most can't benefit from it

Expand  

 

DOH! That makes perfect sense. Swapping the sets.

 

Edit: But wait one... won't the much lower base recharge of ET negatively affect the proc chance?

Edited by Bill Z Bubba
Bopper

Bopper

Posted
Posted
  On 2/27/2022 at 12:07 AM, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

DOH! That makes perfect sense. Swapping the sets.

 

Edit: But wait one... won't the much lower base recharge of ET negatively affect the proc chance?

Expand  

Yes it will, which is why I say to only slot the ATO proc and no other recharge. You will have a 60.784% chance to proc when using ET(fast) and 71.917% chance to proc when using ET(slow). Assuming you're using it twice in your rotation, those odds are better than use TF once at 90% chance.

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Bill Z Bubba

Bill Z Bubba

Posted
Posted
  On 2/27/2022 at 12:17 AM, Bopper said:

Yes it will, which is why I say to only slot the ATO proc and no other recharge. You will have a 60.784% chance to proc when using ET(fast) and 71.917% chance to proc when using ET(slow). Assuming you're using it twice in your rotation, those odds are better than use TF once at 90% chance.

Expand  

 

yea... I can't do that. Not with my chain.

Bopper

Bopper

Posted
Posted
  On 2/27/2022 at 12:17 AM, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

yea... I can't do that. Not with my chain.

Expand  

I assumed SomeGuy was aiming for a proc-centric build, which is why I was suggesting it. If you're using a very tight rotation that requires high ET recharge (likely you're doing ET > TF > ET), then this will not work for you. You would have to do something like ET > TF > BS/Snipe/EP > ET then probably throw in one more attack at the end. This will not work for everyone, but it can for some. I'll look at chain options and see if I can show an example of what I'm talking about.

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SomeGuy

SomeGuy

Posted
Posted
  On 2/26/2022 at 10:57 PM, Bopper said:

I assumed this might be the case. Although TF will have the best chance to proc the ATO, the benefit isn't really there. The crit on ET isn't very strong (BS and your snipe will crit for more) and the power you want to crit the most can't benefit from it (TF). I would recommend slotting only the ATO proc into ET, then slot no other recharge in that power. Use it twice per rotation and I bet you'll find the performance to be pretty good.

 

Something to also consider, the animation time - hit time for TF is fairly large so you waste more of the crit buff window. Something to always keep in mind.

Expand  

 

 

This is just my opinion, but if ET got the chance increase from that proc it might make EM have the old TW problem. I loved old TW due to it's mechanics, but omg the damage just made it not-fun, cause it created the "whats the point?" feeling of playing other sets.

Pylon and Trapdoor Results Spreadsheet

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1d0VruEHGktnPFvtMLF_MdpKPBe0wgUhzyGvb1DQNQQo/edit#gid=0

Bill Z Bubba

Bill Z Bubba

Posted
Posted
  On 2/27/2022 at 12:22 AM, Bopper said:

This will not work for everyone, but it can for some. I'll look at chain options and see if I can show an example of what I'm talking about.

Expand  

 

For others, please yes! For me, I'm as much stuck in ETlong-TF-ETshort-<Gloom or Moonbeam>-BS as I am Followup-Focus-Slash. 🙂

Bill Z Bubba

Bill Z Bubba

Posted
Posted
  On 2/27/2022 at 12:26 AM, SomeGuy said:

This is just my opinion, but if ET got the chance increase from that proc it might make EM have the old TW problem. I loved old TW due to it's mechanics, but omg the damage just made it not-fun, cause it created the "whats the point?" feeling of playing other sets.

Expand  

 

Are you stating that you don't think ET gets its base Crit chance improved by the scrapper ATO procs? I'm not sure that's even possible.

ScarySai

ScarySai

Posted
Posted

I'm pretty confident it is getting the buff. Though I'm an advocate for putting SCS in bone smasher over TF.

 

Much more versatile, and if you get a crit TF, that's a much larger DPS swing than anything else.

Bopper

Bopper

Posted
Posted
  On 2/27/2022 at 12:26 AM, SomeGuy said:

 

 

This is just my opinion, but if ET got the chance increase from that proc it might make EM have the old TW problem. I loved old TW due to it's mechanics, but omg the damage just made it not-fun, cause it created the "whats the point?" feeling of playing other sets.

Expand  

I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to, but the points I was making earlier had more to do with how much crit damage each attack does while also recognizing a TF crit results in double Energy Focus.

 

Crit Damage:

  • Snipe: 1.75 to 2.30 scale
  • Bone Smasher: 1.64 scale
  • Energy Transfer: 1.2768 scale
  • Total Focus: 1.00 scale (but you get double Focus)
  • Energy Punch: 1.00 scale

So slotting the proc into Energy Transfer will likely benefit you more as you will likely get some combination of TF, Snipe and BS into the crit window which will lead to bigger crit damage and/or double Focus

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SomeGuy

SomeGuy

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 2/27/2022 at 12:28 AM, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Are you stating that you don't think ET gets its base Crit chance improved by the scrapper ATO procs? I'm not sure that's even possible.

Expand  

 

I was under the impression that if it "crit" it would get fast-cast and you could skip TF? Cause I'm not seeing it get an increase in that chance being increased with the proc in TF. I'm just wondering if the chance for that is the same % as a normal crit chance.

 

@Bopper and yeah, that's why I put the proc in ET. Get more bang for the buck.

Edited by SomeGuy

Pylon and Trapdoor Results Spreadsheet

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1d0VruEHGktnPFvtMLF_MdpKPBe0wgUhzyGvb1DQNQQo/edit#gid=0

Bill Z Bubba

Bill Z Bubba

Posted
Posted
  On 2/27/2022 at 4:59 AM, SomeGuy said:

 

I was under the impression that if it "crit" it would get fast-cast and you could skip TF? Cause I'm not seeing it get an increase in that chance being increased with the proc in TF. I'm just wondering if the chance for that is the same % as a normal crit chance.

 

@Bopper and yeah, that's why I put the proc in ET. Get more bang for the buck.

Expand  

 

Negative. Crit on scrappers only means extra damage (not anywhere near =+100%) and it heals you instead of costing you health. I don't remember if TF *HAS* to hit to grant focus and turn ET to short animation.

  • Like 1
lemming

lemming

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 2/27/2022 at 5:28 AM, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Negative. Crit on scrappers only means extra damage (not anywhere near =+100%) and it heals you instead of costing you health. I don't remember if TF *HAS* to hit to grant focus and turn ET to short animation.

Expand  

It does not need to hit.

 

Currently playing a EM/EA scrapper and while I doubt I have it tuned to the gills, I'm pretty happy with the results. Haven't tried it out on a pylon though

Edited by lemming
more info
SomeGuy

SomeGuy

Posted
Posted
  On 2/27/2022 at 5:48 AM, lemming said:

It does not need to hit.

 

Currently playing a EM/EA scrapper and while I doubt I have it tuned to the gills, I'm pretty happy with the results. Haven't tried it out on a pylon though

Expand  

 

I came *really* close to doing EM/ENA over EM/SD but the manhole cover as a shield won out. ENA is a ridiculously good armor set too.

Pylon and Trapdoor Results Spreadsheet

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1d0VruEHGktnPFvtMLF_MdpKPBe0wgUhzyGvb1DQNQQo/edit#gid=0

BrandX

BrandX

Posted
Posted

I got a 1:35 Pylon time with my EM/BIO using ET > TF > ET > Moonbeam > BS > Repeat, with Crit Proc in TF.  Besides Tier 4 Hybrid (not activated), Tier 4 Degen and Tier 4 Musc Radial, I happened to have the CoP +25% DMG buff at the time of testing.

 

I have ET 5 slotted with Hecatomb (all but the DMG/ENDRED IO and all are +5ed) and TF 6 slotted with SCS.  Seems like possibly switching could maybe work, but then ET can survive without ENDRED slotting, TF I'm going to want ENDRED slotting.  So, this way, I'm not wasting the ENDRED slotting.

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SomeGuy

SomeGuy

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 2/27/2022 at 8:22 AM, BrandX said:

I got a 1:35 Pylon time with my EM/BIO using ET > TF > ET > Moonbeam > BS > Repeat, with Crit Proc in TF.  Besides Tier 4 Hybrid (not activated), Tier 4 Degen and Tier 4 Musc Radial, I happened to have the CoP +25% DMG buff at the time of testing.

 

I have ET 5 slotted with Hecatomb (all but the DMG/ENDRED IO and all are +5ed) and TF 6 slotted with SCS.  Seems like possibly switching could maybe work, but then ET can survive without ENDRED slotting, TF I'm going to want ENDRED slotting.  So, this way, I'm not wasting the ENDRED slotting.

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I average 1:16 with this build:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

It's gotten way lower for a best run. Under a minute with Assault activated a few times. Obviously everyone builds different, but maybe it gives some ideas. I open:

 

TF-BU-ET-Snipe-BS     And that's my chain the entire time, except if Fast ET activates or BU is ready (which is only cast after TF and before ET).

Edited by SomeGuy

Pylon and Trapdoor Results Spreadsheet

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1d0VruEHGktnPFvtMLF_MdpKPBe0wgUhzyGvb1DQNQQo/edit#gid=0

BrandX

BrandX

Posted
Posted
  On 2/27/2022 at 8:43 AM, SomeGuy said:

 

I average 1:16 with this build:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

It's gotten way lower for a best run. Under a minute with Assault activated a few times. Obviously everyone builds different, but maybe it gives some ideas.

Expand  

 

I will say, your build makes me think it's been a waste to slot up Evolving Armor, even for the 3 set bonuses.  I can move those slots else where, for better on the S/L Resist (still at 75% but slightly better still), a damage proc in Energy Transfer (It adds less extra damage than in Moonbeam, but it has 2 chances to go off versus Moonbeam's one chance, in the attacking string), and more END Reduction in Hardened Carapace to make up for Evolving losing it's ENDRED.

lemming

lemming

Posted
Posted
  On 2/27/2022 at 7:00 AM, SomeGuy said:

 

I came *really* close to doing EM/ENA over EM/SD but the manhole cover as a shield won out. ENA is a ridiculously good armor set too.

Expand  

The only drawback I find is that I keep having to turn off Energy Cloak when leading hostages, etc...

 

Manhole cover is my main draw to do another shield character. 😉

SomeGuy

SomeGuy

Posted
Posted

Umm, EM/RAD is pretty good.

 

Average. Hybrid off.

 

Scrapper     EM/RAD     1:18

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

TF-RT-BU-ET-Snipe-TF-ET-BS-Snipe

 

Always doing Total Focus - Radiation Therapy - Build Up - Energy Transfer -Snipe - Total Focus - Energy Transfer when Build Up is ready.

 

I got a :55s run but threw it out.

 

Rad Therapy and Meltdown make a nasty combo for Rad Armor.

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Pylon and Trapdoor Results Spreadsheet

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1d0VruEHGktnPFvtMLF_MdpKPBe0wgUhzyGvb1DQNQQo/edit#gid=0

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