What are your thoughts on long-form story arcs?

[Zodai]

Most of my RP experiences so far have been like, random happenstance meetings in Pocket D - walking up to people and having conversations happen.  I was wondering if like, longer more structured things happen and what people think of them, things where characters intersect in a bigger way in some sort of goal accomplishing or conflict.  Longer periods of time involved and like, character development inside them etc.

 

How often do those happen?  What do people think of them and what sorts of groups do them?  How hard are they to find?

[MetaVileTerror]

The longer-form stuff tends to be my personal focus, as I GM tabletop roleplaying campaigns of the narrative variety weekly for the past twelve years or so.  I like me a good, long story-driven roleplay series.

[Badger54]

Our little group just finished the major portion of a sentients-trafficking ring plot that lasted oh, about three months I think?  Some of it was in game, some of it was 'table-top' style GM'd sessions.  Was fun.  So yeah, they definitely happen.

[Coyotedancer]

I've never actually taken part in any sort of formal, long-term, planned RP arc in an MMO setting... As a long-time tabletop roleplayer and GM, I've been all about that off-line, but it's just never come up for me in on-line games. 

 

That said, the thing with Kai and Blue may count in some ways...

While not really a fully-plotted, intricately planned-out arc for the two characters, we do know where they started, where they are now and what they'll be up to twenty-some years in the future. Mostly because we have both the "current" versions AND their time-travelling "future selves" as active characters in the game. That has required at least a little pondering and planning ("Wait. Protean and Ivory have kids... Oh heck. That means we have to come up with their NAMES?!  Eeek. o_O ") and at various times there have been conversations about how to resolve particular issues, or what arcs to run to answer certain questions. It's definitely been a very interactive process, and it is an evolving, on-going story... Though there's no over-all plot per se, beyond just a couple of young hero-types living their (often complicated and occasionally hilarious-) lives. 

 

So, it sort-of fits what the OP's asking about and it sort-of doesn't.

Call it 50% of an answer.  

[Zolgar]

I dislike them in an open environment like City of Heroes. I find that they need to be hyper scripted to the point that no one outside of a few key players is /actually/ involved, they're just along for the ride.

 

Of course, this is because if it wasn't the case, no extended plot would actually be extended because someone always has someone that can do something about it. No matter what it is.

[Zodai]

8 hours ago, Zolgar said:

I dislike them in an open environment like City of Heroes. I find that they need to be hyper scripted to the point that no one outside of a few key players is /actually/ involved, they're just along for the ride.

 

Of course, this is because if it wasn't the case, no extended plot would actually be extended because someone always has someone that can do something about it. No matter what it is.

There's a part of me that's like, I feel like the scripting would be more on the generals than the specifics.  Like the scripting would help to establish the main conflicts and the direction they might resolve in, but aside from that setting up sessions and seeing if other people can get involved if they want.  The only thing I'd be worried about is like, major conflicts being resolved too easily when other RPers aren't okay with it ending on that note, since it can cut their own arcs short as well.  Satisfying resolutions and all.

 

imo a person can have a plan for how their character's arc moves out, but it's bouncing off the arcs of others that makes it special.  Some amount of scripting seems important but I want to believe it can work without overdoing it.  That's how I think of this at least.

[Obsidian_Dragoon]

I feel they're important very much so when it comes to anything involving roleplaying in an environment that can facilitate that kind of effect. Sometimes it's the randomness of whose involved and something forming that makes it memorable, impacting. Sometimes some general scripting is necessary to set the tone, over-scripting like it's a movie steals away too much potential in my view. Having too much constriction limits the height of a characters change and chance to make calls they ordinarily wouldn't because the situation managed to push it. 

 

I believe it's important to be far more aware of what the idea is if it isn't random and how it can present. Sometimes, it's far better for a Supergroup because it can easily make sense and can be written into what's already happening with far better cohesion. 

 

In terms of major conflicts being resolved too easily the answer usually is have it be a consequence that ended up a cause for it. Because of the kinds of Roleplayer's around networking (Or the occasional character that can, 'Mary Sue-it-all') will exist. It isn't uncommon for people to think their action right, under normal circumstances -would- be right only for it to blow up in their faces. Thinking that you were strengthening a ward to keep something sealed inside turning into actually being a way to give what was inside that last bit of power to siphon in order to break out. 

[davpa]

I do a mixture of small RPs and longer term RPs. I have a basic story outline with a general idea/plan on where it is heading, but I stay extremely adaptive on what my SG members do or say.  For instance, take my VG the Entropy Legion, they started a story where I had them pitted against a “Mexican” drug cartel due to a botched bank robbery. It morphed, over the course of a few weeks, into them taking over the home country of that Cartel’s leader. Due to the actions of the players I found reasons/rationale to introduce a hero side SG to foil the plans of the villains. 

 

So this whole story arc has taken place for about 1.5-2 months now. We RP in the ever adapting plot and we do side RPs too. It has always been this organic thing where I have to do a lot of writing and rewriting of plots due to what their actions are.  Keeps me entertained/busy and they don’t feel railroaded in one predestined path. It is not for the feign of heart, that is for sure. 

 

The Costa Verde arc has pretty much ended, but with elements that could come back, but probably more for their new hero group. The villains are about to start this fashion themed story next week.

 

[Zodai]

54 minutes ago, davpa said:

I do a mixture of small RPs and longer term RPs. I have a basic story outline with a general idea/plan on where it is heading, but I stay extremely adaptive on what my SG members do or say.  For instance, take my VG the Entropy Legion, they started a story where I had them pitted against a “Mexican” drug cartel due to a botched bank robbery. It morphed, over the course of a few weeks, into them taking over the home country of that Cartel’s leader. Due to the actions of the players I found reasons/rationale to introduce a hero side SG to foil the plans of the villains. 

 

So this whole story arc has taken place for about 1.5-2 months now. We RP in the ever adapting plot and we do side RPs too. It has always been this organic thing where I have to do a lot of writing and rewriting of plots due to what their actions are.  Keeps me entertained/busy and they don’t feel railroaded in one predestined path. It is not for the feign of heart, that is for sure. 

 

The Costa Verde arc has pretty much ended, but with elements that could come back, but probably more for their new hero group. The villains are about to start this fashion themed story next week.

 

Ooh, that sounds so cool! : > 😄

 

Do you mind if I ask a question?  I heard elsewhere that like, sometimes Villain SGs tend to have infighting since Villains tend to want to be at the top a lot of the time, if you run into that how do you resolve it enough to keep a long-form arc going?

[davpa]

Well, the Entropy Legion has been around 2010/2011. The main emphasis is that the Legion are a bit of Bad News Bears losers, so there is not an inherent Super Ego Master Villain in the group. I’m their leader, Radium Blight, and they have very little respect for me. And the character doesn’t deserve respect most of the time. He is like a middle manager that has been granted devastating radiation powers. Very little creativity and not that “smooth.” I did this a lot to let the villains vent on me and not each other, it also lightens the mood. That is, for me, the key success of the Entropy Legion, is that they are fun, not one dimensional eeeeevil!

 

so the villains will snide comments at each other, they have personalities that lead to quirky behavior and failure, and they have a clueless boss that gets enough right that they haven’t left. And they are a bickering family. They’ll come up with out of whack plots that are doomed to fail, but the rest of the villains pat them on the backs and tell them “ man, that almost worked.”

 

what I learned quickly is that having a room full of Red Skulls is never going to work. It is boring. Having a room full of bad guy Peter Parkers is funny and has room to grow. This formula works. During Live we ran 2-3 RP nights and 1-2 Strike target events a week. For 2-3 years straight. On redside. Redside is not deadside if you are not Dr. Doom and play the quirky nature of being a costumed aggressive agent. Think about the mental quirks and bad decision making for a person who decides to put on a colorful spandex outfit and be mad at the world. Doomed to failure is what that is. And that is what the Entropy Legion is, a room full of failures trying their best.

 

so that is how, in a poorly worded explanation, of how we have a VG so long term plots. I hope something of that rambling made sense or gave inspiration. 

[biostem]

If you have a group that plays well together, and someone in said group is able to act as a GM/storyteller of sorts, then you can make a long-form story work well.  Bonus points if that GM-type person is good with AE and can make custom missions for that group!  Frankly, you could probably work off of newspaper/radio missions and weave a story together from those, on the fly as well.  It's all about the group you've got and how well they work together...

[DR_Mechano]

The main problem is that Union did have server wide story arcs BUT it also had a much lower population and RPers were 'raised' in that enviroment. Virtue, by contrast, was very insular in that story arcs are limited to 1 or 2 Supergroups. 

 

For example Dr Mechano was a well known villain who went from grumpy old man with robots who shouts at clouds to major player in the villain game. He became a 'known face' with villains and was someone they could turn to for all their mad science needs. He once orchestrated a huge attack on all the major villain and hero supergroups at once just to cause some chaos and to do a few 'trial runs' of things he needed to test.

 

He was smart enough to merely...annoy...the Villain groups (things like freezing their computer systems with just a picture of him giving them a thumbs up). This event became 'server canon'. Now there is no way I could have pulled the same thing off on Virtue because each group effectively has their own version canon. I spent all the prep time contacting all the supergroups involved, getting their permission, working on what happened to who etc.

 

Myself and Britannic aka Big Game Hunter, were going to try something like this BUT sadly family matters got really in the way of things and I couldn't continue until now, when I've got more time to devote to such things.

 

The other thing this allowed was heroes to be recognized for their 'out of costume' time. Amy Zon, my giant SS/Invuln Cat girl (based on big cats, not house cats), spent some time away in Japan (I was on holiday for three weeks) starring in a magical girl show called Mew Mew Awesome (that was the translation name) as 'Giant Strength Catgirl'. Other heroes recognized her from this and she even got some fans (randomly played by other players I never asked to do it, they did it just to world build and be cool :D) coming up to her and asking her to sign stuff.

Edited September 3, 2019 by DR_Mechano

[Zodai]

15 hours ago, DR_Mechano said:

The main problem is that Union did have server wide story arcs BUT it also had a much lower population and RPers were 'raised' in that enviroment. Virtue, by contrast, was very insular in that story arcs are limited to 1 or 2 Supergroups. 

 

For example Dr Mechano was a well known villain who went from grumpy old man with robots who shouts at clouds to major player in the villain game. He became a 'known face' with villains and was someone they could turn to for all their mad science needs. He once orchestrated a huge attack on all the major villain and hero supergroups at once just to cause some chaos and to do a few 'trial runs' of things he needed to test.

 

He was smart enough to merely...annoy...the Villain groups (things like freezing their computer systems with just a picture of him giving them a thumbs up). This event became 'server canon'. Now there is no way I could have pulled the same thing off on Virtue because each group effectively has their own version canon. I spent all the prep time contacting all the supergroups involved, getting their permission, working on what happened to who etc.

 

Myself and Britannic aka Big Game Hunter, were going to try something like this BUT sadly family matters got really in the way of things and I couldn't continue until now, when I've got more time to devote to such things.

 

The other thing this allowed was heroes to be recognized for their 'out of costume' time. Amy Zon, my giant SS/Invuln Cat girl (based on big cats, not house cats), spent some time away in Japan (I was on holiday for three weeks) starring in a magical girl show called Mew Mew Awesome (that was the translation name) as 'Giant Strength Catgirl'. Other heroes recognized her from this and she even got some fans (randomly played by other players I never asked to do it, they did it just to world build and be cool :D) coming up to her and asking her to sign stuff.

I was originally talking about like, long-form arcs in general even if they were limited to a few supergroups, but the idea of server-wide arcs and server canon definitely interests me : >  It feels like it would take a hell of a lot of work to set up though. xD

[Fatman]

On 8/29/2019 at 10:45 PM, Zolgar said:

I dislike them in an open environment like City of Heroes. I find that they need to be hyper scripted to the point that no one outside of a few key players is /actually/ involved, they're just along for the ride.

Pretty much this. Like at this point I'm not even a bit player; I'm just some asshole with a tub of popcorn and a cup of liquid diabetes, all because my character's name isn't Unbelievable-Man or Dr. Stephen Fayte, who's simply a talented doctor and nothing more.

[C/Calliope]

I'm in agreement with what most have generally said. If its a lengthy and detailed story arc, then it'll have to be in a structured environment. The openness of CoH doesn't quite lend itself to that naturally, so when you're doing some heavy RP, you just have to creatively work around that. Definitely not impossible though and I've been a part of a few; they were great. One thing that I did way back when was utilize AE and create missions that went with the background of a character and roleplay within that. Very interesting stuff! As much as I wish there was more organic roleplay happening in the open world, it just doesn't really happen. As others have said, I just hit Pocket D when I'm looking for new people to interact with and just play off of each other. I'm hoping to find some players or even an SG eventually that seek to do the same thing. But I digress! I'm all for creative arcs and RPing; it just adds to the story of Paragon City. Every hero and villain adds something.

[EyeLuvBooks]

I frequently see calls for team members for RP-friendly teams. Such teams advertise as RP because they're not going to dash from mission to mission and there will be at least some in-character chat. Participants should have at least a little bit filled in for their Background because sure enough others will read them.

[Greycat]

Long term can be great. AE, RP in between, have an idea of what you want but try to alter AE (or other RP) sessions to take in what's happened, get some open-world interaction as well... Lot of work, but it can be worth it.

[Mercurias]

I enjoy long-term story arcs greatly, both in-game and much more recently in tabletop (it took me a long time to work up the courage to try and find tabletop friends).

 

Honestly, the key answers to most overarching problems with this kind of storytelling are OOC honesty and communication.

 

In MMOs, like in tabletop, there are a few pitfalls to make sure and avoid:

1) Information: Share it, be open about it, and be aware that your players will constantly forget the things their characters should know. They aren't their characters all the time, because they're actual people with actual lives. You can handle this by spoon-feeding them the info they should have OOC, or giving them reminders to help them have the knowledge in their heads so they can feel it IC.

 

2) Your Players Will Break Your Story Every Time: Seriously, every single time. Never, ever bank on them doing what you think is normal, rational, or sane. I recently had a player respond to making a mistake and causing an AE mission glitch by murdering the NPC I was playing out of the blue in order to try and FIX the imploded plot. The big fixes for this are primarily all improvising, and the nice thing is that your players will be happy to help do this! It's basically what they've been doing all along!

 

3) Cooperation: You want to make sure your players (as well as yourself!) are all having a good time, and that they know they're going into a story together. This means gaining agreement on the purpose of the story as well as the intended outcome. Sometimes that isn't even what the GM intends, and most of the time even that is okay.

 

4) Incorporation: People are going to want to weave their stories in with yours. I think that's great, and it's a good idea to let them. I would encourage lots and lots and lots of discourse with those players so that you can either help draw those characters into the story or so that the players can decide later to move in a different direction if they like (e.g., they want the evil science lab to be where their character was experimented on! Oh, but your story's evil science lab isn't quite so edgy, murder-y, or grimdark because their story touches on themes you don't want to get into. Better for it to be separate labs, then, and that's okay!)

 

5) Players Thinking They're Fighting The GM: Guys, the players and the GM aren't enemies. You're all playing the same game. The GM is just the one painting the world for you to live in and giving you those dangers so you can have something to conflict with, because stories need conflict. Don't fight with the GM. The GM wants you to have a good story, the GM wants you to have fun. Work with your GM.

 

6) Fussy Players: Sometimes people just don't gel. Sometimes players do way too much to steal the spotlight. Sometimes a player keeps sending you links to articles from a strange and worrying corner of the internet. Sometimes there is metagaming, or powergaming, and a player gets upset because they aren't the focus and their clique all really thinks that their character should be. There isn't any shame in parting ways with that player if you're both making one another unhappy, or even running something just for that player's focus later, if you both like each other and really want to. 

 

7) The Right Story For The Right People: Sometimes you're going to find people utterly uninterested in the story you want to tell, and that's fine. Put that story away and think lovingly of it now and then. Wait for the right time. You can't force your players to act in your world. If you try then you're really just writing by yourself on legendary difficulty. You gotta run the stories players want to play, or else you won't have players.